What does it mean to be "born again"?
- Thread starter Armour of God
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It means becoming a new person by the Holy Spirit.
1 Samuel 10:6
6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you...and you will be changed into a different person.
By whether or not you love as God loves, especially the brethren. And in action, not just words.
1 John 3:14
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
1 John 3:18-19
18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence
The evidence of being born again (God's love in us by the Holy Spirit) gives us confidence that we are prepared to meet Jesus on the day of judgment.
1 John 4:16-17
16Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
Being born of water does not birth the 'new' person who sees and enters the kingdom of heaven. Being born of the Spirit does. But it is necessary to be born of water, too. At the time Jesus is saying this people are being baptized in water for repentance in preparation for baptism in the Spirit.
Even today repentance almost always precedes the new birth by the Spirit. 'Natural man first, spiritual man second' is a principle seen all through the Bible. As necessary as repentance is, repentance births a natural man who cannot see and enter into the kingdom of heaven. You must also be born of the Spirit through faith in God's forgiveness through Jesus. Lawful repentance isn't enough. You must have faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sin to see and enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 20:21
21I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
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Moonwood
New Member
It's my understanding that Jesus’s phrase “born again” in John 3 refers to the new supernatural life God gives the soul — a life that does not come from human birth (“born of flesh”) but from the Spirit (“born of Spirit”). In the dialogue, Jesus contrasts what human nature can generate with what only God can generate. Flesh produces merely natural life; Spirit produces divine life.
When Jesus speaks of “water and Spirit,” He is describing the two inseparable aspects of this rebirth:
- “Water” corresponds to the purification and renunciation of the old life — the cleansing that prepares the soul for God.
- “Spirit” is the infusion of divine life that enables the soul to live in a new way, with capacities it did not possess before.
The chapter’s later focus on baptism (“Jesus and His disciples went into the Judean countryside, and He baptized”) shows the sacramental context in which this rebirth is ordinarily given. Baptism is the visible, ecclesial means by which the purification (“water”) and vivification (“Spirit”) Jesus describes are conferred. But the essence of being “born again” is the interior reality itself — the soul’s rebirth through God, the creation of a new life that flesh cannot produce.
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Or more rightly, “born of flesh” meaning the life that comes from the fleshly effort of repentance. As necessary as it is to repent in regard to the deeds of the flesh, that is not what gets a person into the kingdom of heaven. That is flesh giving birth to flesh. The effort of the flesh can only birth a natural man in the earthly kingdom of God, not a spiritual man in the kingdom of heaven, though many are convinced it will. They will not see and enter into the kingdom of heaven. You must also be born of the Spirit through faith in the forgiveness of sin through Jesus to see and enter the kingdom. Faith in Christ‘s sacrifice is what solicits the new birth by the Spirit, not repentance to the law of God’s commandments.
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Moonwood
New Member
In John 3, “born of flesh” refers to natural human birth, not to repentance. Jesus is contrasting natural life with supernatural life. Repentance is necessary, but it does not generate divine life; only the Spirit does. And yes—faith in Christ is essential, but faith itself does not cause rebirth. That’s why Jesus speaks of being “born of water and Spirit,” and why He uses the wind analogy: the Spirit’s action is a creative act of God, not the product of human effort.
Probably not. In Galatians 4 Paul defines being born by/according to the flesh as the effort of the flesh in regard to the works of the law. As necessary as it is to repent and be a new man outwardly according to the law, that is not what actually makes you a child of God in line for the inheritance. Believing God’s promise of a Son is what does that. Jesus is using water as a metonymy for repentance via water baptism. That isn’t enough to see and enter into the kingdom. It only prepares the way for that which does - the receiving of the Spirit through faith in God’s Promise of a Son who inherits the blessing on our behalf.
Moonwood
New Member
Paul’s use of “flesh” in Galatians 4 is not the same as Jesus’s use of “flesh” in John 3. In John 3, “born of flesh” refers to natural human birth—Jesus is contrasting natural life with supernatural life. That’s why He immediately pairs it with “born of Spirit.” John’s categories are natural birth vs. divine birth, not repentance vs. faith. And Jesus’s own explanation of “water and Spirit,” together with the wind analogy, shows that rebirth is the Spirit’s creative act, not the product of human effort—whether repentance or faith.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I agree
I disagree. I think there is a difference between just being a "different person" and a "new creation". This verse you quote isn't even talking about the "new creation" which wasn't even available in the OT. Having the holy spirit of God "come UPON you" in the old testament, has nothing to do with having the holy spirit of Jesus birthed IN you in the New testament. A new birth of your spirit which wasn't available until after the cross.
2CO 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
18 All this is from God, who through christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
The word christ isn't even in the OT.
It doesn't say that. That's why it is in debate to this very day.
There is a principle of letting scripture interpret scripture, and Paul's references to being born by/according to the flesh in Galatians 4:23,29, and the context he is using those in, is useful to gaining insight into what Jesus is saying. As you say in your signature, "Exegesis precedes theology." Scripturally, being 'born of flesh' means 'birthing' a son according to the covenant of law, rather than 'birthing' a son as a result of the promise of God by the Spirit.
Galatians 4:23
23His son by the slave woman (Hagar-symbolic of the covenant of law) was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.
Galatians 4:29-30
29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh (the son born of the law) persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.
30But what does the Scripture say? “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”e
Those that are born of the fleshly effort of the law (a.k.a. repentance) don't share in the inheritance. Only those who repent and are born as a result of faith in the promise do. That's what Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus. Although 'birthing' the son according to repentance to the law is necessary, it is birth by the Spirit by which a person can see and enter into the inheritance. New and shocking revelation to the Jews steeped in the covenant of law they have with God and who took false comfort in their law keeping to obtain the inheritance.
Yes, he is contrasting 'natural' life with supernatural life. But not physical natural life with supernatural life. He is contrasting the naturally obtained outward life that comes by repentance unto the law. That 'life' is not sufficient to see and enter the kingdom of God. You must be born by the Spirit, too. John's baptism for repentance is not enough to see and enter the kingdom. You must be born from above by the Spirit.
Being a new creation by the Holy Spirit is indeed being a different person.
Saul was a different person when the Holy Spirit came upon him. The Bible says so.
1 Samuel 10:6
6Then the Spirit of the LORD will rush upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be transformed into a different person.
That's the same description of when the Spirit fell on the Day of Pentecost.
Moonwood
New Member
John 3 defines its own terms. Jesus says, “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit.” The contrast is between what human nature can generate (natural birth) and what only God can generate (supernatural birth). John never uses “flesh” to mean repentance, law‑keeping, or outward moral reform — those are Pauline categories from Galatians, not Johannine categories from John. Galatians 4 and John 3 use the word “flesh” in different ways, in different contexts, for different purposes: Paul is contrasting law vs. promise, while Jesus is contrasting natural birth vs. divine rebirth. If we let John interpret John, “born of flesh” is natural birth, and “born of Spirit” is supernatural rebirth. Jesus’s explanation of “water and Spirit,” together with the wind analogy, shows that rebirth is the Spirit’s creative act, not the product of human effort — whether repentance or faith.
Moonwood
New Member
John 3:6 does say that. Jesus defines His own terms: “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit.” The contrast He gives is between what human nature can generate (natural birth) and what only God can generate (supernatural birth). Nothing in the passage mentions repentance, law‑keeping, or covenant categories. Those belong to Paul’s argument in Galatians, not to Jesus’s explanation to Nicodemus. If we let John interpret John, “born of flesh” is natural birth, and “born of Spirit” is divine rebirth — exactly as Jesus states.
It's in the use of the word 'water'. 'Born of water' is a metonym for repentance via John's baptism. The very thing that is happening in Israel at that time Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus. That births a new man according to the flesh - flesh giving birth to flesh. Thus the necessity for Jesus to teach Nicodemus that one must be born of the Spirit from above to see and enter the kingdom of heaven - Spirit giving birth to spirit. The spiritual man inherits the kingdom, not the man of flesh.
I find it entirely meaningless and unnecessary for Jesus to instruct Nicodemus that you must be born a human being, in addition to being born of the Spirit, in order to see and enter into the kingdom of heaven. If that is what he is saying we can disregard the 'born of water' part altogether.
'Water' being a metonymy for repentance to the law of God is a much more useful and meaningful message. That isn't enough for Nicodemus and his fellow Jews to see and enter the kingdom of God. You must also be born from above, by the Spirit of God. That is the new man who inherits the kingdom.
Moonwood
New Member
John never uses “water” as a metonym for repentance. In John’s Gospel, “water” consistently refers to cleansing or life, not to moral reform or law‑keeping. And in John 3, Jesus does not say “born of water is repentance” — He pairs “water and Spirit” together as the single reality of supernatural rebirth.
Nicodemus’s misunderstanding shows the conversation is about physical birth, not repentance: “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” (John 3:4). Jesus must begin with natural birth because Nicodemus thinks He is talking about physical birth. Jesus corrects him by distinguishing the two births: natural birth (“flesh”) and supernatural birth (“Spirit”). If “water” meant repentance and “flesh” meant repentance‑life, then Nicodemus’s question makes no sense and Jesus’s correction makes no sense.
It isn’t meaningless for Jesus to refer to natural birth — it is the entire structure of His argument. Jesus is not telling Nicodemus, “You must be born a human being.” He is telling him, “You have already been born of flesh — now you must be born of Spirit.” The contrast only works if “born of flesh” refers to natural birth. Otherwise the dialogue collapses.
And the wind analogy makes your reading impossible: “The wind blows where it wills… so it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” The point is that rebirth is the Spirit’s sovereign act, not the product of human effort — whether repentance, faith, or law‑keeping. Jesus is not teaching that repentance produces a “flesh‑birth” and faith produces a “Spirit‑birth.” He is teaching that natural birth produces flesh, and the Spirit alone produces Spirit. That is the Johannine contrast.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
There's a big difference between changing WHAT you ARE versus changing what you DO.
The definition of your Hebrew word in 1 Sam doesn't even fit the definition of the TWO words you are now applying it to. ("changed" "transformed").
Strong's Ref # 2015 haphak: to turn about or over; by implication to change, overturn, return, pervert
Correct, In the context of 1Sam 10 Saul went from being someone who never prophesied to someone who did prophesy along with the prophets. But prophesying doesn't make you a prophet in the OT or the NT. After your PENTECOST-AL experience scripture says;
1CO 14:1* Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
Prophets were called to be prophets from their very creation in the womb. This would be before their FIRST BIRTH even, let alone a RE-BIRTH, as we are discussing.
JEREMIAH 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
What translation are you using? It appears to be the chameleon translation. What you quoted in post 262. I have copy/pasted below. Read the bolded and underlined word I am talking about.
Your exegesis and eisegesis are in a pickle.
I don't think you even need to respond. We aren't going anywhere productive.
JimKnox
Active Member
Well done.
Most logical and Scriptural explanation of that passage in this entire thread. (Including my own)
Well done.
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