God Commands Righteous Violence

[quietthinker]

This vid is provocative from the perspective of today's overly spiritualized. One interesting observation is the Christian hero Prince Vlad, whose Dracula means order of the Knights of the dragon. He saved European Christian women and children from Islamic invaders by attacking Islamic warriors. In his home country, he is taught in schools as a hero and defender of the faith from Mehmet who conquered Constantinople after 1,000 years of being a Christian capital. Thoughts?

'What if someone attacks the vulnerable' is the question asked. Were Adam and Eve vulnerable? ...and if they were, why did God just 'stand by?'
The idea that there is righteous violence in my view.....and the view of the Cosmos is an error

In Revelation we are told the glory goes to the slaughtered Lamb; the one who though he could have called ten thousand angels submitted to the choices of men.....even to death.

 

[JimKnox]

Nope. Doing justice is put first and is not cancelled by any other word of God.

Your problem is you elevate yourself above the righteousness of God.

Good luck at the JSOC.

 

[doctrox]

.

...retaliate violently...

and

But none of what you have written shows that Christians are told to use violence.

and

So how can violence be part of Christian service and duty?

The question itself is amiss, even inflammatory - a presumption based in a misunderstanding (but it makes "good copy"). Self defense can be violent, but it lacks the guile of "violence."

For example,

Failing to stop a violent attacker from harming a helpless person breaks the command to love your neighbor.

Jesus said there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for others. This can include fighting to shield friends or family from harm.

Romans 13 states that the higher powers are appointed by God and do not bear the "sword" (the power of punishment and force) in vain.

Police officers and soldiers who use lawful force are seen as servants keeping society safe from chaos.

War or combat is only allowed to restore peace, protect the innocent, and stop a grave injustice when all peaceful options fail.

As far as the OP's Prince Vlad (he was a Roman Catholic), it's a fool's argument.
.

 

[Wrangler]

You seem to be.

You say God will kill more humans then anyone in history, so it's OK for you to kill humans also. Isn't that the case you are making? Let me know if I'm getting it wrong.

Yes, you are getting it wrong and I think on purpose, as usual. Jesus will kill more people than anyone else in histor, so one cannot use modeling him as a standard of non-violence. And you side stepped the question of what gives us the right to use righteous violence (if not the Scripture I referenced)?

 

[David Lamb]

It’s the other way, my friend. God has placed us in authority. See Romans 13.

Where does Romans 13 say that God has put us in authority? The chapter opens:

NKJV Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

The "governing authorities" as far as the Romans were concerned were Nero and the other leaders of the Roman empire.

 

[David Lamb]

.

and

and

The question itself is amiss, even inflammatory - a presumption based in a misunderstanding (but it makes "good copy"). Self defense can be violent, but it lacks the guile of "violence."

For example,

Failing to stop a violent attacker from harming a helpless person breaks the command to love your neighbor.

I have not even mention defending a helpless person who is being attacked. I have been talking all along of the fact that nowhere in the Bible do we read of Christians retaliating with violence when they themselves are persecuted.

Jesus said there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for others. This can include fighting to shield friends or family from harm.

But Jesus said those words and acted them out. If we read the verse you quoted in context, we see that He indicates this:

NKJV Jhn 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

Yet in His laying down His life, He dispolayed not a shred of violence:

NKJV 1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
1Pe 2:22 "WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH";
1Pe 2:23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;
1Pe 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

Romans 13 states that the higher powers are appointed by God and do not bear the "sword" (the power of punishment and force) in vain.

Police officers and soldiers who use lawful force are seen as servants keeping society safe from chaos.

War or combat is only allowed to restore peace, protect the innocent, and stop a grave injustice when all peaceful options fail.

As far as the OP's Prince Vlad (he was a Roman Catholic), it's a fool's argument.
.

Again, I would say that I have been talking about Christians and their reaction towards people who persecute them for being Christians, not policemen or members of the armed forces using lawful force.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Where does Romans 13 say that God has put us in authority? The chapter opens:

NKJV Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

The "governing authorities" as far as the Romans were concerned were Nero and the other leaders of the Roman empire.

""" The life of the innocent is considered of supreme value to God, and the life of the murderer is to be forfeited for NOT valuing the life of the innocent. """

‹ Country Club Road church of Christ

churchofchristtucson.org

 

[Wrangler]

Your problem is you elevate yourself above the righteousness of God.

Good luck at the JSOC.

Nope. I am a soldier of Christ doing the righteousness of God. What does God’s command to DO JUSTICE mean to you? Let evil prevail?

""" The life of the innocent is considered of supreme value to God, and the life of the murderer is to be forfeited for NOT valuing the life of the innocent. """

‹ Country Club Road church of Christ

churchofchristtucson.org

Well said. God commands righteous violence for the murderer's forfeit life doesn't happen by osmosis.

 

[David Lamb]

""" The life of the innocent is considered of supreme value to God, and the life of the murderer is to be forfeited for NOT valuing the life of the innocent. """

‹ Country Club Road church of Christ

churchofchristtucson.org

Apart from saying that according to the Bible, all have sinned, so in God's sight, not one of us is innocent, how does your post answer my question about where in Romans 13 are we told that we are put in authority?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Nope. I am a soldier of Christ doing the righteousness of God. What does God’s command to DO JUSTICE mean to you? Let evil prevail?

Well said. God commands righteous violence for the murderer's forfeit life doesn't happen by osmosis.

I quoted from the site I supplied and do agree that the 'state' has the Biblical right to impose the death penalty

 

[PeterAndroz]

Apart from saying that according to the Bible, all have sinned, so in God's sight, not one of us is innocent, how does your post answer my question about where in Romans 13 are we told that we are put in authority?

I believe Christ THROUGH Paul teaches that the 'state' has the Biblical authority to perform capital punishment on those who MURDER

 

[David Lamb]

I believe Christ THROUGH Paul teaches that the 'state' has the Biblical authority to perform capital punishment on those who MURDER

So do I, but I have just looked back at the first post in this thread to check, and it is clear that this thread is not about the authority of the state, but about whether it is right for Christians to retaliate with violence against those who persecute them. For example, the OP mentions Christ's comm and to His followers to "turn the other cheek.

 

[PeterAndroz]

So do I, but I have just looked back at the first post in this thread to check, and it is clear that this thread is not about the authority of the state, but about whether it is right for Christians to retaliate with violence against those who persecute them. For example, the OP mentions Christ's comm and to His followers to "turn the other cheek.

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment
What if the retaliation/anger is WITH CAUSE ?
eg enters your home with the clear intent to murder.

 

[David Lamb]

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment
What if the retaliation/anger is WITH CAUSE ?
eg enters your home with the clear intent to murder.

But I can be angry with somebody without being violent. When my son was growing up, I was sometimes angry with him, but not violent, for example. I have said before that this thread didn't begin by being about situations like a criminal coming into your home to murder, but about Christians being persecuted because the are Christians, and the question of whether we are taught in Scripture that we should retaliate with violence against our persecutors.

 

[Cahn333]

Love thy neighbour.

 

[Wrangler]

Love thy neighbour.

Reconciled with The Parable of the 10 Pounds, which ends with but as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.

 

[Cahn333]

The parable is just that, a parable. Know your God, pure love - I mean if you think that is the sentiments of God, well Id not like meeting your devil! The difference between good and evil - know it.

 

[Wrangler]

The parable is just that, a parable.

Just dismiss the words of our Lord just like that eh? Who is to do the slaughtering in the parable?

A. God​

B. People who follow God.​

 

[marks]

Yes, you are getting it wrong and I think on purpose, as usual.

Well then nevermind.

 

[Wrangler]

Know your God

A warrior God.

I mean if you think that is the sentiments of God, well Id not like meeting your devil!

Foolish. Only a warrior God can ultimately defeat the devil.