The Book of Remembrance

[Episkopos]

This episode explores the provision that God has made for those who serve Him, but are not among the elect. The Book of Remembrance maintains the hope we have in Christ based on His mercy towards those who fear His name and speak the truth among themselves.

 

[CrowCross]

This episode explores the provision that God has made for those who serve Him, but are not among the elect. The Book of Remembrance maintains the hope we have in Christ based on His mercy towards those who fear His name and speak the truth among themselves.

You seem to be preaching the possibility of salvation by works.

As long as they serve God, serve the saints....because they are not of the elect....and if they do these "righteous" acts God may judge them and give them eternal life.

I see so many contradictions I don't know where to start. All fall short...the wages of sin is death...not by works.....and so on.

Think about it...These people you speak of seem to acknowledge God. They seem to acknowledge Jesus and some people have salvation through Jesus....Well, if they have this belief that Jesus died for our sins.....why not simply call on the name of the Lord and be saved?

 

[bdavidc]

This episode explores the provision that God has made for those who serve Him, but are not among the elect. The Book of Remembrance maintains the hope we have in Christ based on His mercy towards those who fear His name and speak the truth among themselves.

This is not a biblical explanation of the Book of Remembrance. It is an entire salvation system invented by cutting unrelated passages out of context and forcing them together.

You have created three classes of people and three supposed standards of judgment: the elect who attain holiness, unbelievers saved by righteous works, and a middle group of Christians preserved through a “Book of Remembrance.” Scripture teaches no such system. It says there is “one body,” “one hope,” “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:4–5). There is one gospel and one way of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Your claim that “books” in Revelation 20:12 must mean exactly two books, producing three books when the Book of Life is included, is pure invention. A plural does not automatically mean exactly two. Revelation does not divide the Book of Life and the Lamb’s Book of Life into two salvation records for different classes of people. Revelation 21:27 calls it “the Lamb’s book of life,” while Revelation 20:15 simply calls it “the book of life.” You manufactured a distinction the text never makes.

You then claim the nations can be saved according to their works “regardless of beliefs.” That directly contradicts Jesus:

“He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

People at the Great White Throne are judged according to their works, but Revelation 20:15 does not say their works save them. It says, “Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” You are preaching salvation by works for unbelievers, something Scripture explicitly denies: “By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

You also butcher Malachi 3. The people in the Book of Remembrance are not non-elect believers occupying some middle level of salvation. God says of them, “They shall be mine” (Malachi 3:17). The passage contrasts those who fear and serve God with the wicked who do not serve Him. It says nothing about three resurrections, three standards, failed Christians escaping outer darkness, or people who cannot become saints.

Your interpretation of “jewels” as a third-place category between gold and silver is completely fabricated. Malachi does not rank gold, silver, and precious stones. You imported those materials from 1 Corinthians 3 and constructed a doctrine Malachi never taught.

Then you corrupt 1 Corinthians 3 in the same way. Paul says that if a man’s work burns, “he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (verse 15). The work is burned. The believer is saved. The passage does not say he is rejected into outer darkness. You deliberately reverse Paul’s conclusion and turn loss of reward into rejection from Christ.

Second Timothy 2:20 is another separate context. Paul uses vessels as an illustration of usefulness and purity within a great house. He even tells the dishonorable vessel how to become honorable: “If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour” (verse 21). It says nothing about permanent salvation classes identified as gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and earth.

Your claim that most Christians can never be saints is also false. Paul addressed ordinary believers as saints:

“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints” (Romans 1:7).

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints” (1 Corinthians 1:2).

A saint is not a member of your imaginary spiritual elite who has attained a higher level than other believers. Everyone sanctified in Christ is a saint. Your system robs believers of their identity in Christ and places them beneath a supposed superior class whom they must serve to escape judgment.

Matthew 25 does not teach that unbelievers inherit God’s kingdom by helping Christians. Jesus calls those people “sheep,” “blessed of my Father,” and “the righteous” (Matthew 25:33–34, 37). Their works reveal their relationship to Christ. Their surprise that they served Christ unknowingly does not mean they were unbelievers. Once again, you smuggle your doctrine into the passage instead of drawing doctrine from it.

Hebrews 6:10 does say God remembers the work and love shown by believers who minister to the saints. But the preceding verse calls these “things that accompany salvation” (Hebrews 6:9). Their works accompany salvation. They do not purchase a place in some middle book for people who failed to become saints.

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” does not mean work to keep yourself out of outer darkness. The next verse explains why believers can work: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). We work out what God has worked within us. We do not earn salvation by serving your alleged spiritual elite.

Most disturbing is the self-serving direction of this teaching. You tell people that only a few attain your “higher walk,” that others must recognize and submit to those higher saints, and that receiving them may help people share their reward and escape judgment. That sounds less like the gospel of Jesus Christ and more like a religious ladder designed to place certain teachers above ordinary Christians.

Jesus said, “One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren” (Matthew 23:8). Paul refused to have dominion over the faith of believers (2 Corinthians 1:24). A faithful teacher directs people to Christ and His written Word. He does not create an elite class and suggest that people’s eternal outcome may depend upon recognizing, serving, and submitting to its members.

Your closing statement, “If we can’t be a saint, then at least serve them,” exposes how far you have departed from Scripture. Believers do not earn a lesser survival plan because they failed to reach sainthood. They are saved completely through faith in Christ:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

This video is not merely confused. It teaches another way of salvation, divides believers into imaginary spiritual castes, offers salvation to unbelievers by works, and turns Christian service into an escape route from judgment. Paul’s warning applies: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

Stop inventing doctrines from disconnected words and metaphors. Stop placing burdens upon people that God never placed upon them. Stop presenting yourself and your supposed higher saints as the people others must recognize and serve. Repent of corrupting the gospel and return to the plain truth of Scripture before you lead more people away from Christ.

 

[PeterAndroz]

This is not a biblical explanation of the Book of Remembrance. It is an entire salvation system invented by cutting unrelated passages out of context and forcing them together.

You have created three classes of people and three supposed standards of judgment: the elect who attain holiness, unbelievers saved by righteous works, and a middle group of Christians preserved through a “Book of Remembrance.” Scripture teaches no such system. It says there is “one body,” “one hope,” “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:4–5). There is one gospel and one way of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Your claim that “books” in Revelation 20:12 must mean exactly two books, producing three books when the Book of Life is included, is pure invention. A plural does not automatically mean exactly two. Revelation does not divide the Book of Life and the Lamb’s Book of Life into two salvation records for different classes of people. Revelation 21:27 calls it “the Lamb’s book of life,” while Revelation 20:15 simply calls it “the book of life.” You manufactured a distinction the text never makes.

You then claim the nations can be saved according to their works “regardless of beliefs.” That directly contradicts Jesus:

“He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

People at the Great White Throne are judged according to their works, but Revelation 20:15 does not say their works save them. It says, “Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” You are preaching salvation by works for unbelievers, something Scripture explicitly denies: “By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

You also butcher Malachi 3. The people in the Book of Remembrance are not non-elect believers occupying some middle level of salvation. God says of them, “They shall be mine” (Malachi 3:17). The passage contrasts those who fear and serve God with the wicked who do not serve Him. It says nothing about three resurrections, three standards, failed Christians escaping outer darkness, or people who cannot become saints.

Your interpretation of “jewels” as a third-place category between gold and silver is completely fabricated. Malachi does not rank gold, silver, and precious stones. You imported those materials from 1 Corinthians 3 and constructed a doctrine Malachi never taught.

Then you corrupt 1 Corinthians 3 in the same way. Paul says that if a man’s work burns, “he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (verse 15). The work is burned. The believer is saved. The passage does not say he is rejected into outer darkness. You deliberately reverse Paul’s conclusion and turn loss of reward into rejection from Christ.

Second Timothy 2:20 is another separate context. Paul uses vessels as an illustration of usefulness and purity within a great house. He even tells the dishonorable vessel how to become honorable: “If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour” (verse 21). It says nothing about permanent salvation classes identified as gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and earth.

Your claim that most Christians can never be saints is also false. Paul addressed ordinary believers as saints:

“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints” (Romans 1:7).

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints” (1 Corinthians 1:2).

A saint is not a member of your imaginary spiritual elite who has attained a higher level than other believers. Everyone sanctified in Christ is a saint. Your system robs believers of their identity in Christ and places them beneath a supposed superior class whom they must serve to escape judgment.

Matthew 25 does not teach that unbelievers inherit God’s kingdom by helping Christians. Jesus calls those people “sheep,” “blessed of my Father,” and “the righteous” (Matthew 25:33–34, 37). Their works reveal their relationship to Christ. Their surprise that they served Christ unknowingly does not mean they were unbelievers. Once again, you smuggle your doctrine into the passage instead of drawing doctrine from it.

Hebrews 6:10 does say God remembers the work and love shown by believers who minister to the saints. But the preceding verse calls these “things that accompany salvation” (Hebrews 6:9). Their works accompany salvation. They do not purchase a place in some middle book for people who failed to become saints.

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” does not mean work to keep yourself out of outer darkness. The next verse explains why believers can work: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). We work out what God has worked within us. We do not earn salvation by serving your alleged spiritual elite.

Most disturbing is the self-serving direction of this teaching. You tell people that only a few attain your “higher walk,” that others must recognize and submit to those higher saints, and that receiving them may help people share their reward and escape judgment. That sounds less like the gospel of Jesus Christ and more like a religious ladder designed to place certain teachers above ordinary Christians.

Jesus said, “One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren” (Matthew 23:8). Paul refused to have dominion over the faith of believers (2 Corinthians 1:24). A faithful teacher directs people to Christ and His written Word. He does not create an elite class and suggest that people’s eternal outcome may depend upon recognizing, serving, and submitting to its members.

Your closing statement, “If we can’t be a saint, then at least serve them,” exposes how far you have departed from Scripture. Believers do not earn a lesser survival plan because they failed to reach sainthood. They are saved completely through faith in Christ:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

This video is not merely confused. It teaches another way of salvation, divides believers into imaginary spiritual castes, offers salvation to unbelievers by works, and turns Christian service into an escape route from judgment. Paul’s warning applies: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

Stop inventing doctrines from disconnected words and metaphors. Stop placing burdens upon people that God never placed upon them. Stop presenting yourself and your supposed higher saints as the people others must recognize and serve. Repent of corrupting the gospel and return to the plain truth of Scripture before you lead more people away from Christ.

and that's what so many do.
Turn the Bible into a jigsaw then piece the pieces together in a way that $uit$ what they want to sell/teach

 

[Episkopos]

You seem to be preaching the possibility of salvation by works.

We are ALL to be judged only by our works. Find any verse that shows that we will be judged by the accuracy of our beliefs.

As long as they serve God, serve the saints....because they are not of the elect....and if they do these "righteous" acts God may judge them and give them eternal life.

If course. If you receive a righteous man in the name of a righteous man you get a righteous man's reward.

I see so many contradictions I don't know where to start.

I could say the same thing in your assessment. The bible holds out many promises to those who obey God.

Read Matt 25 sheep and goats judgment....CAREFULLY...and realize that serving God's people is equivalent to serving God Himself.

Even a cup of cold water...

All fall short...the wages of sin is death...not by works.....and so on.

Do you not also fall short...and maybe even shorter than many who are not believers??? If that's the case then you have no case. It all depends on God's mercy. You are FULLY out of the loop. Why do you want to judge the world?

Think about it...These people you speak of seem to acknowledge God. They seem to acknowledge Jesus and some people have salvation through Jesus....Well, if they have this belief that Jesus died for our sins.....why not simply call on the name of the Lord and be saved?

The book of remembrance is about believers...not unbelievers. If even unbelievers can be saved by how they treat the brethren in Christ...then how much more will people be saved who served the Lord directly and ministered faithfully to the saints?

 

[Episkopos]

and that's what so many do.
Turn the Bible into a jigsaw then piece the pieces together in a way that $uit$ what they want to sell/teach

People do that because they don't know what the big picture looks like. They don't know what is the higher calling in Christ that very few will attain. And they don't know the extent of God's mercy who gave Himself for the whole world.

 

[Episkopos]

This is not a biblical explanation of the Book of Remembrance. It is an entire salvation system invented by cutting unrelated passages out of context and forcing them together.

You have created three classes of people and three supposed standards of judgment: the elect who attain holiness, unbelievers saved by righteous works, and a middle group of Christians preserved through a “Book of Remembrance.” Scripture teaches no such system. It says there is “one body,” “one hope,” “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:4–5). There is one gospel and one way of salvation through Jesus Christ.

There is one way to salvation over sin and the world...through Christ. There is only one way to the Father. But you are inventing a scheme that goes directly against the many verses that show God will have mercy on MORE than just His house.

You have to read with an open mind and heart...through the eyes of faith, not religious belief. God has made the bible to expose such as those who have no faith.

Your claim that “books” in Revelation 20:12 must mean exactly two books, producing three books when the Book of Life is included, is pure invention. A plural does not automatically mean exactly two. Revelation does not divide the Book of Life and the Lamb’s Book of Life into two salvation records for different classes of people. Revelation 21:27 calls it “the Lamb’s book of life,” while Revelation 20:15 simply calls it “the book of life.” You manufactured a distinction the text never makes.

You are reading but not comprehending.

You then claim the nations can be saved according to their works “regardless of beliefs.” That directly contradicts Jesus:

“He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

Among the Jews and His people yes. There is a great lack of faith among believers. This is not a contradiction in terms.

The Israelites in the wilderness believed in God. They had sworn that they would obey the Lord. But God rejected them for a lack of faith. God was not well pleased with them. He swore in His wrath that they would not enter His rest.

And the same goes for us. Many believers will be cast away from God's presence forever. Have you not read the bible? What of those who cry out Lord Lord....and Jesus rejects them because they were LAWLESS. Did they not expect that Jesus would receive them??

So your argument is turned on its head.

“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

You have to believe Jesus...believe His words...obey His commandments otherwise you will be rejected as lawless. You put no emphasis on obedience to Christ so you are fully outside the faith.

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

Eternal life is a KIND of life to be entered into right now. Whoever is in Christ HAS eternal life right now.

People at the Great White Throne are judged according to their works, but Revelation 20:15 does not say their works save them. It says, “Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” You are preaching salvation by works for unbelievers, something Scripture explicitly denies: “By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

Your reading comprehension skills are very low. If someone is judged by their works...as you suggest... that doesn't mean they are condemned. That means that those who did good works are written in the book...and those whose works were evil are absent from the book.

You also butcher Malachi 3. The people in the Book of Remembrance are not non-elect believers occupying some middle level of salvation. God says of them, “They shall be mine” (Malachi 3:17). The passage contrasts those who fear and serve God with the wicked who do not serve Him. It says nothing about three resurrections, three standards, failed Christians escaping outer darkness, or people who cannot become saints.

The last verse lays out the 4 eternal destinies for you.

You have to discern between the the righteous and the wicked (The Book of Life) and between Him that serves God and His that serves Him not (Lamb's book of life)

You are NOT discerning this at all. When a person discerns between the destinies of mankind THEN he can behave in a way that qualifies him/her for the book of remembrance. Just read without the blinders on.

Your interpretation of “jewels” as a third-place category between gold and silver is completely fabricated. Malachi does not rank gold, silver, and precious stones. You imported those materials from 1 Corinthians 3 and constructed a doctrine Malachi never taught.

Then you corrupt 1 Corinthians 3 in the same way. Paul says that if a man’s work burns, “he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (verse 15). The work is burned. The believer is saved. The passage does not say he is rejected into outer darkness. You deliberately reverse Paul’s conclusion and turn loss of reward into rejection from Christ.

Second Timothy 2:20 is another separate context. Paul uses vessels as an illustration of usefulness and purity within a great house. He even tells the dishonorable vessel how to become honorable: “If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour” (verse 21). It says nothing about permanent salvation classes identified as gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and earth.

Your claim that most Christians can never be saints is also false. Paul addressed ordinary believers as saints:

“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints” (Romans 1:7).

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints” (1 Corinthians 1:2).

A saint is not a member of your imaginary spiritual elite who has attained a higher level than other believers. Everyone sanctified in Christ is a saint. Your system robs believers of their identity in Christ and places them beneath a supposed superior class whom they must serve to escape judgment.

Matthew 25 does not teach that unbelievers inherit God’s kingdom by helping Christians. Jesus calls those people “sheep,” “blessed of my Father,” and “the righteous” (Matthew 25:33–34, 37). Their works reveal their relationship to Christ. Their surprise that they served Christ unknowingly does not mean they were unbelievers. Once again, you smuggle your doctrine into the passage instead of drawing doctrine from it.

Hebrews 6:10 does say God remembers the work and love shown by believers who minister to the saints. But the preceding verse calls these “things that accompany salvation” (Hebrews 6:9). Their works accompany salvation. They do not purchase a place in some middle book for people who failed to become saints.

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” does not mean work to keep yourself out of outer darkness. The next verse explains why believers can work: “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). We work out what God has worked within us. We do not earn salvation by serving your alleged spiritual elite.

Most disturbing is the self-serving direction of this teaching. You tell people that only a few attain your “higher walk,” that others must recognize and submit to those higher saints, and that receiving them may help people share their reward and escape judgment. That sounds less like the gospel of Jesus Christ and more like a religious ladder designed to place certain teachers above ordinary Christians.

Jesus said, “One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren” (Matthew 23:8). Paul refused to have dominion over the faith of believers (2 Corinthians 1:24). A faithful teacher directs people to Christ and His written Word. He does not create an elite class and suggest that people’s eternal outcome may depend upon recognizing, serving, and submitting to its members.

Your closing statement, “If we can’t be a saint, then at least serve them,” exposes how far you have departed from Scripture. Believers do not earn a lesser survival plan because they failed to reach sainthood. They are saved completely through faith in Christ:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

This video is not merely confused. It teaches another way of salvation, divides believers into imaginary spiritual castes, offers salvation to unbelievers by works, and turns Christian service into an escape route from judgment. Paul’s warning applies: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

Stop inventing doctrines from disconnected words and metaphors. Stop placing burdens upon people that God never placed upon them. Stop presenting yourself and your supposed higher saints as the people others must recognize and serve. Repent of corrupting the gospel and return to the plain truth of Scripture before you lead more people away from Christ.

You have gone down a religious rabbit hole here based on unbelief. You need to back up and start again.

 

[Episkopos]

I usually tell a logic story to those who don't understand mercy.

There was a certain prince who was to inherit the kingdom who decided one day, that before he became king, he would venture into the kingdom to see what sort of people were there. On his way his horse bucked because of a snake and he fell and broke his foot. A farmer saw him in the ditch and carried the prince home and looked after him till he was healed.

One day the prince asked the farmer if he knew who he was. The farmer said he didn't know.

OK so here we have to have 2 different endings. One for the real Jesus and the other for the religious invention that probably most modern believers believe in.

1. The real Jesus: "Because you served Me even though you didn't know who I was, I COMMEND you to the highest honour for your selfless giving. Welcome in MY kingdom. "

2. The totally FAKE Jesus that most put their trust in: "Because you pretended to serve me and don't know who I am, I condemn you to death."


So then can the farmer be saved by his works apart from knowing who the prince was?

How many here think they are serving God...but its a totally fake Jesus. As in...go away I never knew you...AND you never knew Me.

Those who see a condemning Jesus will themselves be condemned. Those who see a commending Jesus should start obeying Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

Book of remembrance - isn't that the Lord "remembering" His faithful OT saints, to include them in the book of life and new covenant once it was ordained with the coming of the Messiah, His death and resurrection? "that they without us would not be made perfect."


Mal 3:16-17

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.


Isa 49:15-16

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.


Luk 23:42

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

 

[Episkopos]

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matt. 25:34-40

So then will the sheep in the parable inherit the kingdom by their faith or by their works?

I realize that even a child should know this already,,,,

 

[NayborBear]

In my Spiritual Journey-ings?
I have learned and/or been learned that in (how can I say) one's maturation, or being "weaned from the milk" as recorded in Isaiah 28, which Paul rather reiterates as "leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go unto perfection(translated more as completeness) in Hebrews 6?
An opening of one's (in this particular post) MY "Spiritual Eyes" to a process I have come to know, or call:
"Connecting the Dots!"
Which in fact, should a believer allow, or is led, or in some instances (like mine for example), is grabbed by an unseen hand by the short hairs on the back of my neck and (how can I say) "Lovingly Nudged?" (of course if you've ever been grabbed by the short hairs on the back of your neck? Kinda hard to call it "lovingly" at first. Yet? As time goes on and these "pieces of the puzzle" that some deem as "unrelated?"
Render a Much Different and Larger "picture" (if you will) of more (how can I say) "INTRICACIES" of the "Government" that Christ bares on His shoulder, or what Paul calls "The Body of Christ!" After which? You start "thanking Him" for this/these (how can I say) "Life Course Corrections!" (something you KNOW should BE taught in Church. But WASN'T! Which left (me anyway) looking for, and not understanding WHY such things were/ARE not being taught in church!)
And? To further elaborate? Which is seen and/or witnessed in this forum, in this particular thread even. As well in(cough, cough) Churches across the world?
People not Heeding, nor even giving credence to "Paul's warnings" in 1 Corinthians 12.

 

[Episkopos]

In my Spiritual Journey-ings?
I have learned and/or been learned that in (how can I say) one's maturation, or being "weaned from the milk" as recorded in Isaiah 28, which Paul rather reiterates as "leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go unto perfection(translated more as completeness) in Hebrews 6?
An opening of one's (in this particular post) MY "Spiritual Eyes" to a process I have come to know, or call:
"Connecting the Dots!"
Which in fact, should a believer allow, or is led, or in some instances (like mine for example), is grabbed by an unseen hand by the short hairs on the back of my neck and (how can I say) "Lovingly Nudged?" (of course if you've ever been grabbed by the short hairs on the back of your neck? Kinda hard to call it "lovingly" at first. Yet? As time goes on and these "pieces of the puzzle" that some deem as "unrelated?"
Render a Much Different and Larger "picture" (if you will) of more (how can I say) "INTRICACIES" of the "Government" that Christ bares on His shoulder, or what Paul calls "The Body of Christ!" After which? You start "thanking Him" for this/these (how can I say) "Life Course Corrections!" (something you KNOW should BE taught in Church. But WASN'T! Which left (me anyway) looking for, and not understanding WHY such things were/ARE not being taught in church!)
And? To further elaborate? Which is seen and/or witnessed in this forum, in this particular thread even. As well in(cough, cough) Churches across the world?
People not Heeding, nor even giving credence to "Paul's warnings" in 1 Corinthians 12.

Which is to say......????

 

[Lizbeth]

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matt. 25:34-40

So then will the sheep in the parable inherit the kingdom by their faith or by their works?

I realize that even a child should know this already,,,,

Except that Jesus was not talking about works apart from faith. By works is our FAITH made perfect. Faith wrought with Abraham's works as it does with ours. We show our faith by our works. So again, it is not works apart from faith. The first and foremost work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent, which even that faith to believe was a gift from God, not of our own lest any man boast.

 

[CrowCross]

We are ALL to be judged only by our works. Find any verse that shows that we will be judged by the accuracy of our beliefs.

Here's the important sentence ...

Yes, all men will be judged. It doesn't matter if you've done a gazillion and one acts of righteousness and committed one sin....you're still lost. The wages of sin is death...and all men sin. I'm sure you know the verses.

The bible speaks of two judgements. The Great White Throne AND the Bema Seat of Christ.

Here's the difference....The Great White Throne is for those not saved while the Bema Seat of Christ is for those who are saved.
Those saved and judged before the Bema Seat will not be judged for salvation but rather for "rewards". The bema seat judges what one did for the glory of christ. it looks at your motivations. Those that did little will receive rewards yet they will be saved as if escaping from a burning building and barely making it out.

The works you speak of can't parallel the work Jesus did on the cross when God the Son died on the cross in our place....when our sins were imputed to Jesus and His righteousness was imputed to those who were washed in His blood.

I get the feeling you haven't actually placed your faith in the saving work of Jesus and are relying on being in this "book of remembrance" hoping your good works get you in.

 

[Episkopos]

Here's the important sentence ...

Yes, all men will be judged. It doesn't matter if you've done a gazillion and one acts of righteousness and committed one sin....you're still lost. The wages of sin is death...and all men sin. I'm sure you know the verses.

But do you know the verses? Why are you thinking that you can get away with sin? People who read the bible with a carnal mind pick and choose certain verses as applying to them and other verses as applying to others.

How are you NOT doing that?

The bible speaks of two judgements. The Great White Throne AND the Bema Seat of Christ.

Good.

Here's the difference....The Great White Throne is for those not saved

Who were not YET saved...but are about to be permitted entry into God's kingdom IF they are written into the Book of Life based on their works.

while the Bema Seat of Christ is for those who are saved.

The household of God.

Those saved and judged before the Bema Seat will not be judged for salvation but rather for "rewards".

Both for rewards AND for rejection into outer darkness. Vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour and shame.

The bema seat judges what one did for the glory of christ. it looks at your motivations.

Those who seek to save their lives will lose them. It is only those who LOSE their lives for the sake of Christ that will save them.

Those that did little will receive rewards yet they will be saved as if escaping from a burning building and barely making it out.

They will suffer LOSS. Read the bible. You are not understanding the difference between not gaining MORE through a reward...and LOSING what you had. Even what he had he lost.... read the bible.

The works you speak of can't parallel the work Jesus did on the cross when God the Son died on the cross in our place....when our sins were imputed to Jesus and His righteousness was imputed to those who were washed in His blood.

Our sins were never imputed to Christ by God....just the Pharisees and very wicked men imputed evil and sin to Christ. Are you saying you agree with the Pharisees that Jesus was a great sinner and needed to die?

I get the feeling you haven't actually placed your faith in the saving work of Jesus and are relying on being in this "book of remembrance" hoping your good works get you in.

My faith is in the real Christ...you have beliefs ABOUT Jesus whom you claim died specifically for you based on a bible reading. Do you also claim to be as righteous as God? Why don't you fear God?

 

[Episkopos]

By the time all people will see the truth...without the need of faith, the fear of God and humility....it will be too late. The time of salvation is now. Seek the Lord while He may be found.

 

[CrowCross]

But do you know the verses? Why are you thinking that you can get away with sin? People who read the bible with a carnal mind pick and choose certain verses as applying to them and other verses as applying to others.

How are you NOT doing that?

Yes, I know I sin. But I also know Jesus paid for all of my sins...past, present and future.

Does this mean I sin on purpose all the time because I can? Of course not.

I would say people who read the bible with a carnal mind aren't really saved....or severely fooled.

Good.

It sounds like you acknowledge there are two judgements. One for the works the Christians do or don't do in Jesus name and the white throne for the non-christians where they will stand guilty.

Who were not YET saved...but are about to be permitted entry into God's kingdom IF they are written into the Book of Life based on their works.

You don't seem to understand.....Grace, faith, salvation produces good works. Good works don't produce salvation.

You seem to present yourself as one who understands scripture...and turn it into a works based theology for some all the while disregarding Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The household of God.


Both for rewards AND for rejection into outer darkness. Vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour and shame.

That's not biblical. It sounds somewhat like Mormonism.

They will suffer LOSS. Read the bible. You are not understanding the difference between not gaining MORE through a reward...and LOSING what you had. Even what he had he lost.... read the bible.

I have....here's an illustration for you. Two people, both saved....One gives an offering to their Church they attend on Sunday...they give it through their heart knowing that money will be used to glorify God in some way.....The second man gives money and gives it in a way to say...."look at me...see how generous I,I,I am."

Our sins were never imputed to Christ by God....just the Pharisees and very wicked men imputed evil and sin to Christ. Are you saying you agree with the Pharisees that Jesus was a great sinner and needed to die?

You miss the entire Gospel message.
Jesus was innocent. No sin at all. Jesus became sin when He took on our sin via imputation. Our sins were nailed to the cross.

I agree that the Pharisees THOUGHT that Jesus was a great sinner and needed to die. Jesus claimed to be God and the Pharisees accused Jesus of blaspheme.

My faith is in the real Christ...you have beliefs ABOUT Jesus whom you claim died specifically for you based on a bible reading. Do you also claim to be as righteous as God? Why don't you fear God?

I would hope the bible is accurate in describing why Jesus died for me....So, YES!!! I claim died specifically for me based on a bible reading.
Jesus was God come in the flesh...who lived a sinless life, obeyed God the Father in every aspect becoming worthy of His sacrificial atonement. Verified by His glorious resurrection which He promises for all of His followers.

Yes....I and others have beliefs ABOUT Jesus whom we know died specifically for us based on a bible reading.
Who is this real Jesus Christ you claim? If you don't base who Jesus is it upon the bible...what do you base your claims on?

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I know I sin. But I also know Jesus paid for all of my sins...past, present and future.

Where do you get that? Not in the bible. That's the Babylonian promise that overturns the truth that all who sin will die. Jesus said that all who sin are a slave to sin. But you brush that off based on reading certain verses that you use to ignore all the others.

Jesus paid for the sins that are PAST. We are called into His victory over sin....not given a license to sin.

Does this mean I sin on purpose all the time because I can? Of course not.

Do you admit that you are walking in your own fallen Adamic nature that can't stop sinning?

I would say people who read the bible with a carnal mind aren't really saved....or severely fooled.

That's what I'm trying to get you to realize here.

It sounds like you acknowledge there are two judgements.

Of course.

One for the works the Christians do or don't do in Jesus name and the white throne for the non-christians where they will stand guilty.

false. Many will be IMPUTED with righteousness who obeyed God's commands but don't know Him.

You don't seem to understand.....Grace, faith, salvation produces good works. Good works don't produce salvation.

Yes they do. It is both. God gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. Do the work...look it up.

You seem to present yourself as one who understands scripture...and turn it into a works based theology for some all the while disregarding Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You are saying that Jesus is sinning through you? It's no longer you sinning but Jesus in you? Paul says you are a transgressor. Jesus is NOT a minster of sin.


I see beyond the indoctrination into one kind of verse and then ignore all the others. You are skipping over all that "repentance stuff" to arrive at the naming and claiming part that your self-interest demands.

You should actually read the bible. Everything I write is 100% bible and in context.
Because of a lack of humility and honesty...and also a lack of understanding...people will claim to have a sinful Christ and a sinful holiness. They will claim the verses meant ONLY for saints...and claim to be saints even as they transgress God's laws.

Better to remain humble and claim only to be a sinner. Then there is a chance at salvation.

That's not biblical. It sounds somewhat like Mormonism.

I have....here's an illustration for you. Two people, both saved....One gives an offering to their Church they attend on Sunday...they give it through their heart knowing that money will be used to glorify God in some way.....The second man gives money and gives it in a way to say...."look at me...see how generous I,I,I am."

This sounds like a confession.

You miss the entire Gospel message.
Jesus was innocent. No sin at all.

You can't see that.

Jesus became sin when He took on our sin via imputation.

False. Only evil men considered Jesus to be sinful. Why do you side with evil?

Our sins were nailed to the cross.

WE nailed our sins to His cross. Jesus didn't crucify Himself. Jesus took on OUR sins onto Himself.
You don't understand the bible at all.

I agree that the Pharisees THOUGHT that Jesus was a great sinner and needed to die. Jesus claimed to be God and the Pharisees accused Jesus of blaspheme.

If you see that then why do you take up their cause?

I would hope the bible is accurate in describing why Jesus died for me....So, YES!!! I claim died specifically for me based on a bible reading.

That's a huge mistake. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Imputing your sins to Jesus just makes you an even greater sinner.

Jesus was God come in the flesh...who lived a sinless life, obeyed God the Father in every aspect becoming worthy of His sacrificial atonement. Verified by His glorious resurrection which He promises for all of His followers.

Yes....I and others have beliefs ABOUT Jesus whom we know died specifically for us based on a bible reading.
Who is this real Jesus Christ you claim? If you don't base who Jesus is it upon the bible...what do you base your claims on?

You need to stop with the theorizing and go to God and be actually saved FROM your sins. Right now you want a salvation while you sin.

OR...you could humble yourself and turn to God and seek to enter into Christ. And if that doesn't work...just claim to be nothing but a sinner. Then God could maybe justify you for real.

 

[Episkopos]

The sheer folly of those who have been indoctrinated to impute their sins to Jesus and then impute God's righteousness to themselves. It would make a Pharisee of Jesus' time blush.

No greater folly could be stated.

We see the rise of antichrist in these dogmatic statements...no fear of God but speaking great swelling words of religious hubris. Like animals that are meant to track down and eliminate.

But there is still time to repent and turn to the living God in Spirit and truth. Let go the false religiosity....and enter into Christ. If not at least OBEY Him.

 

[NayborBear]

Which is to say......????

1 of the aforementioned "books that were opened?" Not including "the Book of Life."
Is "marked:"
"Acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards Righteousness!"
As were those of Abram before he was renamed Abraham!
Jez sayin'.