Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[William Barton]

1. Was the king of Tyrus real?
2. How was he "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
3. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
4. Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
5. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
6. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man anymore?

The passage is about the King of Tyre, and especially about his advocate Satan/Lucifer.

 

[William Barton]

"God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten son,
that whosoever believes in him should not perish,
 but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

The Romans beat Jesus so badly that he was hardly reckognizeable.
Then they nailed his hands and feet to a cross and mocked him,
"If you are the Son of God, then come down from this cross." (Mark 15:32).
God the Father accepted his punishment on our behalf:

"[God] will see the travail of his soul, and be satisfied." (Isaiah 53:11)

 

[Pierac]

In my experience, when people here turn to AI for support they have lost the debate.

PS: the majority of "scholars" out there are apostate today.

Thank you for making my point! You claim what every Cult teaches today....

 

[WPM]

IMO is not a good way to start your post... FYI

The word “kingdom” means king with a domain. You do not have a king without a kingdom. You do not have a kingdom without a king (or queen). Basically, where you have the king, you have the kingdom, or, were you have the kingdom, you have the king.

A kingdom includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for ‘kingdom’ is the Greek word ‘Basileia’ denoting ‘sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion’.

So,

• A kingdom must therefore have a king, a head. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is Jesus Christ.
• It must have a domain to rule over, subjects and territory. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is God’s people.
• It must have a structure of administration, ethics, rules and laws which govern it. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is the Word of God.

Kingdoms and their heads are basically indivisible. The head of each state (whether Monarch, President or Prime Minister) is seen as the face of the nation or the personification of what that nation is all about. They are essentially the voice of the people. Even in United Kingdom law, perpetrators of a crime are listed as “R – v the criminal” meaning “Regina v” in a legal case, Regina referring to the Queen. She is counted as the offended party, even though she was not personally injured. She is simply the representative head of the people. The leader has always been viewed as the one who stands on behalf of countless subjects.

The king therefore cannot be divorced from the kingdom they head up.

As the Lord’s ministry came to an end on earth, we see Him entering into Jerusalem triumphant on a donkey. He received the adoration of the people. Listen to what they were shouting on Palm Sunday. The people declared in John 12:12-15: “Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt.”

Before Jesus death in John 18:36 Jesus told Pilate: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

In the next verse, Pilate asked Jesus: “Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

While Jesus did not come and meet the religious Jews faulty expectation of a physical territorial kingdom where the Messiah would reign over physical Israel and subjugate the Gentile nations, He did come as a spiritual king reigning over a spiritual kingdom.

The kingdom of God is made up of all who are saved from Adam. 1 Corinthians15:22 reveals a repeated New Testament truth: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

We are legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when he fell, equally we were legally represented "in Christ" when He defeated sin and death (our 2 great enemies). We were justified by the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured.

Satan is the king that rules over the kingdom of darkness. In Revelation 9:10-11 the scorpion-like demonic host (that is shown to be currently incarcerated within the abyss) are said to have “a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

This can be none other than Satan. Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Before we go any further, it is worth noting, Jesus likened demons to scorpions in Luke 10:19.

Isa 27:1: "In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Job 41:1 & 34: "Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? … He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride."

This proves that Leviathan (Satan) is king over the kingdom of darkness.

Satan normally operates through a surrogate. What is a surrogate? In a spiritual sense: a surrogate is a vessel the devil uses to perform his will. It is stand-in or conduit or a representative that Satan speaks through or works through. Normally indirectly rather than directly, in the back door rather than the front door. Remember, Satan appears as an angel of light. Is he? No! He is a deceiver!

As Pastor Clendenen explained: “Satan will normally come at you dressed in somebody else’s pants or someone else’s dress.” That’s why you have to discern the voice being spoken and the behavior being manifest. It is only then that you will understand whether someone is in the Spirit or the flesh, whether they are being controlled by God or the devil.

While there are many wicked leaders in scripture, while there are many wicked leaders in history, while there are many wicked leaders today, ultimately Satan is their representative head.

We learn a lot about the character of Satan through Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

These are clear biblical examples of satanic control over earthly kingdoms, where Isaiah and Ezekiel address the kings of Babylon and Tyre (Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-16). The Scripture speaks of these kings as if it was talking about Satan himself. The kings of these nations were simply surrogates for the devil himself to control the people. Wicked human kings were (and are) ungodly hosts by which Satan implemented his designs and manifested his evil. He has been doing this from the beginning.

Ragnar Oborn states on his website: “The passage in Isaiah is directed to the ‘King of Babylon’ and the Ezekiel passage is addressed to the ‘King of Tyre’. But from the descriptions given, it is obvious that no human is addressed. The ‘I wills’ in Isaiah describe a being who was cast to the earth in punishment for wanting to place his throne above the stars of God. The passage in Ezekiel addresses one who is an ‘angelic guardian’ who once moved in Eden and the ‘mountain of God’. This tendency of Satan (or Lucifer) to position himself behind or through someone else is consistent. In the Genesis fall he speaks through the serpent. In Isaiah he rules through the King of Babylon, and in Ezekiel he possesses the King of Tyre.”

 

[WPM]

Thank you for making my point! You claim what every Cult teaches today....

You are a master at avoidance.

 

[rwb]

We learn a lot about the character of Satan through Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

No, we learn a lot about the character of the kings of Babylon and Tyrus as they operate (as you've pointed out) under the power of their father the Devil. That's why the proverb is against the King of Babylon, and the lamentation upon the King of Tyrus.

 

[WPM]

No, we learn a lot about the character of the kings of Babylon and Tyrus as they operate (as you've pointed out) under the power of their father the Devil. That's why the proverb is against the King of Babylon, and the lamentation upon the King of Tyrus.

Address my detailed post above.

 

[rwb]

Address my detailed post above.

No, we learn a lot about the character of the kings of Babylon and Tyrus as they operate (as you've pointed out) under the power of their father the Devil. That's why the proverb is against the King of Babylon, and the lamentation upon the King of Tyrus.

 

[William Barton]

The word “kingdom” means king with a domain. You do not have a king without a kingdom. You do not have a kingdom without a king (or queen). Basically, where you have the king, you have the kingdom, or, were you have the kingdom, you have the king.

A kingdom includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for ‘kingdom’ is the Greek word ‘Basileia’ denoting ‘sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion’.

So,

• A kingdom must therefore have a king, a head. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is Jesus Christ.
• It must have a domain to rule over, subjects and territory. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is God’s people.
• It must have a structure of administration, ethics, rules and laws which govern it. In regard to the kingdom of God, that is the Word of God.

Kingdoms and their heads are basically indivisible. The head of each state (whether Monarch, President or Prime Minister) is seen as the face of the nation or the personification of what that nation is all about. They are essentially the voice of the people. Even in United Kingdom law, perpetrators of a crime are listed as “R – v the criminal” meaning “Regina v” in a legal case, Regina referring to the Queen. She is counted as the offended party, even though she was not personally injured. She is simply the representative head of the people. The leader has always been viewed as the one who stands on behalf of countless subjects.

The king therefore cannot be divorced from the kingdom they head up.

As the Lord’s ministry came to an end on earth, we see Him entering into Jerusalem triumphant on a donkey. He received the adoration of the people. Listen to what they were shouting on Palm Sunday. The people declared in John 12:12-15: “Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt.”

Before Jesus death in John 18:36 Jesus told Pilate: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

In the next verse, Pilate asked Jesus: “Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

While Jesus did not come and meet the religious Jews faulty expectation of a physical territorial kingdom where the Messiah would reign over physical Israel and subjugate the Gentile nations, He did come as a spiritual king reigning over a spiritual kingdom.

The kingdom of God is made up of all who are saved from Adam. 1 Corinthians15:22 reveals a repeated New Testament truth: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

We are legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when he fell, equally we were legally represented "in Christ" when He defeated sin and death (our 2 great enemies). We were justified by the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured.

Satan is the king that rules over the kingdom of darkness. In Revelation 9:10-11 the scorpion-like demonic host (that is shown to be currently incarcerated within the abyss) are said to have “a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

This can be none other than Satan. Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Before we go any further, it is worth noting, Jesus likened demons to scorpions in Luke 10:19.

Isa 27:1: "In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Job 41:1 & 34: "Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? … He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride."

This proves that Leviathan (Satan) is king over the kingdom of darkness.

Satan normally operates through a surrogate. What is a surrogate? In a spiritual sense: a surrogate is a vessel the devil uses to perform his will. It is stand-in or conduit or a representative that Satan speaks through or works through. Normally indirectly rather than directly, in the back door rather than the front door. Remember, Satan appears as an angel of light. Is he? No! He is a deceiver!

As Pastor Clendenen explained: “Satan will normally come at you dressed in somebody else’s pants or someone else’s dress.” That’s why you have to discern the voice being spoken and the behavior being manifest. It is only then that you will understand whether someone is in the Spirit or the flesh, whether they are being controlled by God or the devil.

While there are many wicked leaders in scripture, while there are many wicked leaders in history, while there are many wicked leaders today, ultimately Satan is their representative head.

We learn a lot about the character of Satan through Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

These are clear biblical examples of satanic control over earthly kingdoms, where Isaiah and Ezekiel address the kings of Babylon and Tyre (Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-16). The Scripture speaks of these kings as if it was talking about Satan himself. The kings of these nations were simply surrogates for the devil himself to control the people. Wicked human kings were (and are) ungodly hosts by which Satan implemented his designs and manifested his evil. He has been doing this from the beginning.

Ragnar Oborn states on his website: “The passage in Isaiah is directed to the ‘King of Babylon’ and the Ezekiel passage is addressed to the ‘King of Tyre’. But from the descriptions given, it is obvious that no human is addressed. The ‘I wills’ in Isaiah describe a being who was cast to the earth in punishment for wanting to place his throne above the stars of God. The passage in Ezekiel addresses one who is an ‘angelic guardian’ who once moved in Eden and the ‘mountain of God’. This tendency of Satan (or Lucifer) to position himself behind or through someone else is consistent. In the Genesis fall he speaks through the serpent. In Isaiah he rules through the King of Babylon, and in Ezekiel he possesses the Kingdom.