What is the meaning of Grace, according to the Bible?

[Randy Kluth]

You are confusing the law of Moses with the law of God. The law of Moses is about Judaism....circumcision, eating Kosher and such. These are HOLINESS laws that separate the Jews from the other nations. But through Christ we have a real holiness...the holiness of the perfection of Christ. As such we are able to FULFILL the law of God, to walk as Jesus walked.

I'm not confusing anything at all. And I'm really not sure what you think I'm confusing? The Law of Moses and the laws governing the New Covenant are two separate covenants. They share morality and the fear of God in common, along with the need to obey the principle of obedience.

But inasmuch as they are two distinct systems we need to separate them theologically. Nobody is under the Law of Moses any longer, even if they believe they are. That system ends with human mortality. It was a confirmation of what happened in the Garden of Eden, when God declared that when Man ate of the forbidden tree he would have to die.

Those who have come under the New Covenant bypass the curse of the Law of Moses. They draw upon the grace that is available in Christ, promising resurrection from our state of mortality. I'm not in the least confused about this.

Real holiness took place under both covenants. One system, however, represented a temporary relationship with God until the new system came. The old system provided a holiness that fell short of eternity because it confirmed our mortal existence and its curse of death.

The holiness we now have in Christ breaks through the gates of death and provides us with the assurance of Eternal Life, even though we still live in a mortal state. The promise of resurrection lives within us because we've received from Christ his grace and his indwelling presence through the Holy Spirit.

Accepting Christ we've accepted his eternal dwelling within us, calling us his children, those who are reborn. This system is as moral as the old system, but it holds the guarantee of life, whereas the old system fell short and only pointed to the New Covenant.

I'm not at all confused about this. Are you?

 

[Randy Kluth]

""Those who are sent into eternal punishment don't wish to live in the presence of Christ for eternity""

Agreed, Matt 25:41-46 teaches that a believer who fails to perform goes to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT
..
Where does Paul teach the same ?
Verses, RK, verses

I don't think you know who you're talking to? You seem to imply I'm damned, whereas I'm a reborn Christian who believes in living in Christ's righteousness. But you seem to be completely judgmental and uninspired. What's happened to you?

 

[sondring7]

Actually, the big difference beween Matthew and Paul is time. Matthew relates the account of Jesus while the Law of Moses was still the rule. It was a different covenant from that of Jesus' death and resurrection.

Matthew would've agreed with Paul after the death and resurrection of Christ. We need to see what Matthew wrote in the book of Matthew in the context of the Law, and in light of it pointing to Christ as the final means of redemption.

Thankyou for your post

 

[PeterAndroz]

I don't think you know who you're talking to? You seem to imply I'm damned, whereas I'm a reborn Christian who believes in living in Christ's righteousness. But you seem to be completely judgmental and uninspired. What's happened to you?

""I don't think you know who you're talking to? ""
and I know you don't have the verses otherwise you would have quoted them.
..
Wanna try again ?
List the verses >>FROM PAUL<< that teaches a believer who fails to perform goes to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT
Take your time RK ok

 

[GodsGrace]

I see that your chart calls the spirit the "breath of life" so why do you think the unsaved do not have a spirit?

I posted the chart to show that man is made of 3 materials: body, Soul, Spirit
The spirit comes from God.
It is our attachment to God.
The unsaved do not have a spirit but only body and soul.

Romans 6 calls the sin nature "the old man." For those born again the sin nature has been crucified. That means dead. That is why in Romans 8:8-9 it says in context:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

What I asked is this:
IF the sin nature is eliminated at salvation....
and it is the sin nature that causes man to sin...
then why does man sin after salvation if the sin nature has been eradicated?

That depends on what you refer to as "sin." Give me an example.

You need an example of what sin is?
Anything that offends God.
Pick any one of the commandments.

By "Christianity" you must be referring to some denomination, so who are you listening to? Is it Calvinist? Is it Arminian? Is it Catholic?

No 1st Lady.
Christianity is the religion YOU are practicing.
or is what you are practicing called something different?
We're getting off topic.

I found out recently that verse 13 has been mistranslated from the original Greek. "through the power of" and "you" are not in the original. It actually reads "But if the Spirit puts to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live." It was such a blessing to hear this, because now that Scripture reads in line with what happened to me when trying as hard as I could, because of the knowledge I had, I could not cease committing adultery. Then one evening at church, I saw a vision, and heard God's voice, and all desire to commit adultery was lifted out of me. I could actually feel the heaviness leave and I felt light as a feather. It is the Spirit that does the crucifying and cleansing, not us. Now verse 13 makes sense once read properly.

It says that the DEEDS of the sinful nature will be put to death.
NOT the sinful nature.

My question is simple:
IF the sinful nature has been abolished, what makes man sin?

 

[GodsGrace]

""I don't think you know who you're talking to? ""
and I know you don't have the verses otherwise you would have quoted them.
..
Wanna try again ?
List the verses >>FROM PAUL<< that teaches a believer who fails to perform goes to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT
Take your time RK ok

Hey Peter....
I've got plenty of verses.
Here are some.

From Paul:

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,



Romans 2:6-8
God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


Romans 11:19-22
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.


Romans 6:15-16
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace is Gods unmerited favor given to his creation.

It is paid for by God himself

It is through his shed blood

It can not be earned.

It is not of works - grace and works can not mix. one cancels out the other

If anyone says it is returning to the law. They do not understand grace at all

 

[GodsGrace]

""Those who are sent into eternal punishment don't wish to live in the presence of Christ for eternity""

Agreed, Matt 25:41-46 teaches that a believer who fails to perform goes to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT
..
Where does Paul teach the same ?
Verses, RK, verses

Do you believe Jesus and Paul have different teachings?

 

[GodsGrace]

Grace is Gods unmerited favor given to his creation.

It is paid for by God himself

It is through his shed blood

It can not be earned.

It is not of works - grace and works can not mix. one cancels out the other

If anyone says it is returning to the law. They do not understand grace at all

Hi EG
I kind of like my avatar with the little kids.
What do you think??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the reason we need grace is based on the fact we can not be righteous enough to earn life. The wage of sin is death. James states if we keep the WHOLE law yet even STUMBLE in one point, we are guilty of all. So even if we accidently sin (no one stumbles on purpose) we are guilty.

Grace teaches us to live righteousnely. because it shows us every minute of every day how far we fall short of Gods glory.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG
I kind of like my avatar with the little kids.
What do you think??

Luke 18: 15-17
Then they also brought infants to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to Him and said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

 

[GodsGrace]

the reason we need grace is based on the fact we can not be righteous enough to earn life. The wage of sin is death. James states if we keep the WHOLE law yet even STUMBLE in one point, we are guilty of all. So even if we accidently sin (no one stumbles on purpose) we are guilty.

Grace teaches us to live righteousnely. because it shows us every minute of every day how far we fall short of Gods glory.

Don't you think God's grace is just simply God's love for His creation?
I read a whole book on grace many years ago but, basically, it boiled down to this.

It's not that we need God's grace to be saved...
we have God's grace anyway.

 

[GodsGrace]

Luke 18: 15-17
Then they also brought infants to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to Him and said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Yes sir.
But which do you like better?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't you think God's grace is just simply God's love for His creation?

I think it is much more and deeper than that. To be honest he gives grace to everyone. the mere fct he allows us to live even to do all the evil that man does and does not take us all out is but by his grace.

I read a whole book on grace many years ago but, basically, it boiled down to this.

It's not that we need God's grace to be saved...
we have God's grace anyway.

Well I see that we need Gods grace to be saved.

Salvation is offered to us by Gods grace, it is how we are saved. The question is, will we recieve it. or continue to reject it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes sir.
But which do you like better?

I like this one

 

[Randy Kluth]

""I don't think you know who you're talking to? ""
and I know you don't have the verses otherwise you would have quoted them.
..
Wanna try again ?
List the verses >>FROM PAUL<< that teaches a believer who fails to perform goes to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT
Take your time RK ok

Maybe you can phrase your question so that it specifies the problem? A true believer does *not* go to Eerlasting Punishment. That is a truism and requires no verses at all.

It's possible I'm completely misreading your comments. Please clarify the issue for me--we may not be disagreeing at all. I do agree that the believer, even failing to perform perfectly, will not go to Everlasting Punishment. The believer is saved by grace--he only has to be recognized as an authentic believer.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think it is much more and deeper than that. To be honest he gives grace to everyone. the mere fct he allows us to live even to do all the evil that man does and does not take us all out is but by his grace.

Well I see that we need Gods grace to be saved.

Salvation is offered to us by Gods grace, it is how we are saved. The question is, will we recieve it. or continue to reject it.

Yes. It's much deeper than that.
So if everyone has God's grace,
we cannot say that it's grace that saves.
Isn't it more correct to say that faith saves?
We were discussing this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I like this one

I think I agree.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. It's much deeper than that.
So if everyone has God's grace,
we cannot say that it's grace that saves.

We can. Because just because everyone has Gods grace. the Grace that saves must be recieved.

if it is not recieved, it is rejected..

Isn't it more correct to say that faith saves?

No. because my faith can not earn me salvation. I recieved the gift of life and forgiveness of sins offered by Christ through his grace.
.

We were discussing this.

I wish I had saved my response to you in the other thread. It showed some misgivings I think we see

 

[GodsGrace]

We can. Because just because everyone has Gods grace. the Grace that saves must be recieved.

if it is not recieved, it is rejected..



No. because my faith can not earn me salvation. I recieved the gift of life and forgiveness of sins offered by Christ through his grace.
.

I wish I had saved my response to you in the other thread. It showed some misgivings I think we see

But faith DOES earn you salvation.
It is by faith ... Eph 2:8
Through faith means it is the method...
a means is a method.

later...