Contradiction or wrongly dividing ? !!!
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The concept of dispensations is the result of insight gained from understanding what was being read.
Just the same, rightly dividing still means rightly handling the Word of God.
Before punctuation existed, they used syntactical structures within the sentences that caused readers who knew the language to know what the intended thought was. That is even more reason why we need pastor-teachers who are skillful at exegesis. Very few qualify...
Works are meant to be the fruit of having one's salvation.
Works showing that one is growing in grace and truth.
But works are not the means to keep being saved.
For works never saved you in the first place!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10
Legalists are their own worst enemy.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Yeshua and Paul and James and Peter taught the Way, the Way to salvation and the life of a Christian, the everyday walk with Christ.
No one taught the book club way, where you sign up and carry on as before.
Only faith in Yeshua saves and salvation only comes from Yeshua.
Being saved is a moment in time....from there.....workout your salvation with fear and trembling ....Philippians 2:12
Have faith in Yeshua as a God, the Son of Yahweh, Savior, and Messiah.
Repent
Be Baptized
Participate in the Bread and Wine Ritual
Then begins your Christian life......as you can see there is a to do list. Do nothing and you are not saved.
But is it works? It is something to do, it takes action.....and then workout your salvation. But then again the concept of being saved without works is better understood as.....We are saved without the works of the Mosaic Law.
But there is a to do list after you are saved. The daily Christian walk with Christ. Christianity is not a book club, it is a Way of life. A Christian should be a participant, go to church and worship with Christians and participate in church activities. Give to the church, give to charity, and help those you run into that need help, within your means and Yeshua knows your means.
What is the alternative? Live your life not like a Christian? A non-participant. Give Yeshua and Yahweh lip service? Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Matthew 7:21
Yeshua is the only means to be saved but your way of life depends on if you remain saved.
Be good and do good to the best of your ability. A Christian life is a life of morality. A sin full life, a life full of sin can send you to Hell and remember the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats.....Those that did not help one another went to Hell. Matthew 25:31-46
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Please learn this truth.
Jesus did not come teaching his disciples as he would have Christians.
They were Jews.
Jesus was seen as a rabbi.
The disciples had not yet become the new creation in Christ, which would enable them to live the spiritual life in the power of grace, not by law.
Paul was teaching a new kind of believer.
A type of believer that Jesus did not teach.
Paul taught believers who have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The Spirit who would control the flesh without need of knowing the law to restrain it.
Paul taught Christians having new perceptive abilities that the OT disciples of Jesus did not possess while still living as Jews.
Hope that might help you better understand possibly why we see two types of messages.
Every time I see those words "rightly divided", I know there's some major horse manure about to be flying around.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
How do you apply Christianity to your life? What does it take to be a real Christian?
You can be a Quarterback.
You can be a Halfback.
You can be on the Offensive Line.
Actively participating.....
Or you can be in the large crowd of fans in the stands. Who really like the game but do not participate. But at least put forth the effort to be there.
Or you can be an arm-chair quarterback in a Lazy-Boy or computer desk. A non-participant something.
What does Christ think is required to be a Christian?
Belief alone? A non-participant? Sign up for the club and go on with your life as normal?
The Truth....To be a Christian, Christianity has to be your life. You believe like a Christian and live like a Christian.
You can be a Quarterback.
You can be a Halfback.
You can be on the Offensive Line.
Actively participating.....
Or you can be in the large crowd of fans in the stands. Who really like the game but do not participate. But at least put forth the effort to be there.
Or you can be an arm-chair quarterback in a Lazy-Boy or computer desk. A non-participant something.
What does Christ think is required to be a Christian?
Belief alone? A non-participant? Sign up for the club and go on with your life as normal?
The Truth....To be a Christian, Christianity has to be your life. You believe like a Christian and live like a Christian.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism started with a mystical reading of Revelation's letters to the churches in Asia Minor, which was then expanded into a System of Theology that was read backwards into the rest of the Bible.
It wasn't/isn't a bad idea, but it is less coherent in its application than other such systems (e.g. covenant theology). It has a problem of anachronism - that is, some of the Dispensations it posits do not seem to exist in the writings of the past. It also isn't clear that using systems of theology is the best method for interpreting the Bible.
Yes, in a general sense. But, it doesn't mean chopping the Bible into discrete blocks of history that each have different rules, which is what Dispensationalism as a system does.
There's a lot of variance to that. Some books (e.g. Psalms and Habakkuk) use parallelism heavily, which does as you say. Later writings have final form consonants that show where many words end and sometimes use the letter waw as a divider. Other writings have none of that, which leaves considerable ambiguity. Sometimes that ambiguity is intentional, and it allows the prophets to talk about 2 things at once.
This is why Homilies are generally better than topical sermons.
There you have it, sir.
You will answer to the Lord for what you wished to believe, just as I will.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Rightly Divided Scripture is now "flying horse manure"?
Someone had better check prayerfully And Carefully Before making such statements, eh?
Judgment is Either The Body Of Christ At The Bema Seat (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), or:
Unbelievers At The Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11-15 AV), eh?:
(a) Bible Contrasts
(b) BRIEF 'Example' Of Right Division
(c) God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery
(d) "Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY
(e) No Other Doctrine But Right Division!
(f) Biblical 'Representations' of Twelve and ONE
(g) unScriptural or UNdispensational?
(h) Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?
(i) ONE Foundational Basis For All Biblical Good News!
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Someone had better check prayerfully And Carefully Before making such statements, eh?
Judgment is Either The Body Of Christ At The Bema Seat (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), or:
Unbelievers At The Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11-15 AV), eh?:
(a) Bible Contrasts
(b) BRIEF 'Example' Of Right Division
(c) God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery
(d) "Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY
(e) No Other Doctrine But Right Division!
(f) Biblical 'Representations' of Twelve and ONE
(g) unScriptural or UNdispensational?
(h) Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?
(i) ONE Foundational Basis For All Biblical Good News!
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Some things were not supposed to exist in writings of the past!
They were to be hidden till the right time!
Colossians 1:25-28
I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you
the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages
and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen
to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ
in you, the hope of glory.
the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages
and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen
to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ
in you, the hope of glory.
He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so
that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.
that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.
It is warfare!
Secret weapons are hidden till they are required to be used.
God caught Satan with his pants down.
grace and peace ............
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Are you familiar with the dispensations?
1. Dispensation of Innocence
2. Dispensation of Conscience
3. Dispensation of Human Government
4. Dispensation of Promise
5. Dispensation of the Law
6. Dispensation of Grace
7. The Millennial Reign
Most of these make sense, and have Biblical basis.
2 & 3 don't make sense to me. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that there was ever a period where human conscience or human government were sufficient to attaining righteousness or salvation. I believe the Bible teaches the opposite. Man naturally tends towards iniquity.
4 & 5 have a problem of scope and time. By scope I mean... the Promise applies to Abraham and his children... but not to everyone else. Likewise, the Law applies to Moses and his Israelites... but not to everyone else. By time I mean... the Promise to Abraham is eternal... it doesn't end the way a dispensation is said to end at a certain point in time. Likewise, the Law is eternal... it doesn't end at a certain moment.
The Promise and the Law make more sense when understood as covenants. Covenants are cut only with a certain group of people, and they endure in perpetuity. Also, the Bible explicitly calls them covenants
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit never contradict.
What did the LORD Say about Salvation BEFORE He reached the emphasis of the fruit of Salvation in Matt ch25???
Are you familiar with the dispensations?
1. Dispensation of Innocence
2. Dispensation of Conscience
3. Dispensation of Human Government
4. Dispensation of Promise
5. Dispensation of the Law
6. Dispensation of Grace
7. The Millennial Reign
Most of these make sense, and have Biblical basis.
2 & 3 don't make sense to me. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that there was ever a period where human conscience or human government were sufficient to attaining righteousness or salvation. I believe the Bible teaches the opposite. Man naturally tends towards iniquity.
4 & 5 have a problem of scope and time. By scope I mean... the Promise applies to Abraham and his children... but not to everyone else. Likewise, the Law applies to Moses and his Israelites... but not to everyone else. By time I mean... the Promise to Abraham is eternal... it doesn't end the way a dispensation is said to end at a certain point in time. Likewise, the Law is eternal... it doesn't end at a certain moment.
The Promise and the Law make more sense when understood as covenants. Covenants are cut only with a certain group of people, and they endure in perpetuity. Also, the Bible explicitly calls them covenants
Have fun...Are you familiar with the dispensations?
1. Dispensation of Innocence
2. Dispensation of Conscience
3. Dispensation of Human Government
4. Dispensation of Promise
5. Dispensation of the Law
6. Dispensation of Grace
7. The Millennial Reign
Most of these make sense, and have Biblical basis.
2 & 3 don't make sense to me. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that there was ever a period where human conscience or human government were sufficient to attaining righteousness or salvation. I believe the Bible teaches the opposite. Man naturally tends towards iniquity.
4 & 5 have a problem of scope and time. By scope I mean... the Promise applies to Abraham and his children... but not to everyone else. Likewise, the Law applies to Moses and his Israelites... but not to everyone else. By time I mean... the Promise to Abraham is eternal... it doesn't end the way a dispensation is said to end at a certain point in time. Likewise, the Law is eternal... it doesn't end at a certain moment.
The Promise and the Law make more sense when understood as covenants. Covenants are cut only with a certain group of people, and they endure in perpetuity. Also, the Bible explicitly calls them covenants
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
""Legalists are their own worst enemy.""
I'm not a legalist
Legalists believe that faith >>>AND WORKS<<< are a requirement to be and REMAIN saved/HS sealed/justified.
I don't c/- >> Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
What about you ??
""Please learn this truth.""
Here is the truth Scripture teaches me.
Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9
Paul is the Christ chosen and ALL AGREED Apostle to teach me how to enter eternal life
Who is yours ?
Could you do this next time, please?
So everyone can smoothly follow what it is that you were saying?
Titus 3:5-7
He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he
poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been
justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
Gal 2:16
Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ
and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
Rom 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ.
Then I would be able to think with you.
But, when you do this?
>> Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
What about you ??
It detours everything and loses the flow of the discussion.
Thanks...
grace and peace .....
By citing some wrongly named dispensations does not discredit the validity for there being dispensations.
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