Spiritual Declension in the Church and in the World

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amigo de christo

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It is true that the condemned are end up in the lake of fire, but what many people get very wrong, is that in the lake of fire they eventually die. The wages of sin is ultimately death. The time comes to all of them, including Satan himself, where the pain will cease and all conciousness will be expunged.
all i know is THANK GOD for JESUS CHRIST . cause the sheep dont have to worry about such a place .
But i wont be saying the same for those who used Jesus Name to sell a lie of anti christ and its ecumenical love
of a harlot . They gonna be severly damned . YOU DONT USE JESUS NAME to DECIEVE .
Its bad enough to deny Him , even worse when ya use HIS name to do so . I dont even wanna think
what this ecuemincal all inclusive generation gonna have to face ON HIS day . SO
lets not be any kind of co helper to it . As i am sure you do agree .
 

Marvelloustime

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all i know is THANK GOD for JESUS CHRIST . cause the sheep dont have to worry about such a place .
But i wont be saying the same for those who used Jesus Name to sell a lie of anti christ and its ecumenical love
of a harlot . They gonna be severly damned . YOU DONT USE JESUS NAME to DECIEVE .
Its bad enough to deny Him , even worse when ya use HIS name to do so . I dont even wanna think
what this ecuemincal all inclusive generation gonna have to face ON HIS day . SO
lets not be any kind of co helper to it . As i am sure you do agree .
@amigo de christo
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BarneyFife

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No need to apologize.
The Church, or True Israel as you noted above has never been a building, or a group of people congregating in a building, though our forefathers in the faith certainly constructed some nice ones.

The buildings/denominations etc should shut their doors, I stand by the statement.

Sell all that they have, if they aren't buried in unholy debt, give it to the poor and go make disciples.

Your objection seems to be less to organization and more to either solvency or indebtedness. So the perfect church would always have a zeroed-out bank balance, perhaps?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that making disciples takes money, especially in a modern economy, unless organization is actually the objection.
 

Lizbeth

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Lizbeth, It depends through which paradigm one understands these texts. If one understands them independently of the God revealed in Jesus one will draw the conclusion that proactive punishment is in the tubes for certain ones...even the worst form of punishment.
If it is understood through the paradigm of the good news, the one Jesus modelled and summarised in his attitude towards his executionsers, 'Father forgive them, they know not what they do', then we get a totally different view.

It behooves us to understand what the word 'wrath' in the context it is used means.
Roman 1 defines God's wrath as a consequence..... like PTSD is a consequence not an arbitrary infliction.
Our God is a consuming fire, and no man can see God and live. That's why in order to live when Christ returns in all His unveiled glory (flaming fire), one needs to be hid in the cleft of the Rock. Now is still the time of longsuffering and grace, but His longsuffering will come to an end one day known only to the Lord. See 2 Peter 3.
 

quietthinker

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Our God is a consuming fire, and no man can see God and live. That's why in order to live when Christ returns in all His unveiled glory (flaming fire), one needs to be hid in the cleft of the Rock. Now is still the time of longsuffering and grace, but His longsuffering will come to an end one day known only to the Lord. See 2 Peter 3.
Why do you think his long-suffering will come to an end?
 

Lizbeth

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Why do you think his long-suffering will come to an end?

Act 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained

Gen 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



2Pe 3:3-18

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; (ie, still opportunity to be saved while it lasts) even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Luk 13:24-28

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
 

quietthinker

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Act 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained

Gen 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



2Pe 3:3-18

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; (ie, still opportunity to be saved while it lasts) even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Luk 13:24-28

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Lotsa texts here Lizbeth but they don't answer my question to you.
 

quietthinker

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They tell us that God's longsuffering has a limit.
I think that the word 'long-suffering' has its inbuilt explanation. It is looooong-suffering. In other words, it never ends.
What does end is mans willingness to understand and see God's looooog-suffering. Man superimposes his own limited understanding/ vision of what it means ....and as he does with other attributes, superimposes it onto God.
 

Lizbeth

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I think that the word 'long-suffering' has its inbuilt explanation. It is looooong-suffering. In other words, it never ends.
What does end is mans willingness to understand and see God's looooog-suffering. Man superimposes his own limited understanding/ vision of what it means ....and as he does with other attributes, superimposes it onto God.
I'm not superimposing anything............scripture clearly indicates that this time of longsuffering will come to an end on the day of the Lord when He judges the world and individual souls.
 

quietthinker

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I'm not superimposing anything............scripture clearly indicates that this time of longsuffering will come to an end on the day of the Lord when He judges the world and individual souls.
The World has been judged....and the message to you is you have been forgiven. Now it is your privilege to pass that message onto others.
It will now be the World judging God....deciding whether he is worthy of their worship.