Conversation with An Atheist

[ProDeo]

Lee Strobel?

https://stuarthoughton.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/the-case-for-christ.pdf

 

[Mancunian]

Only this...

Read Genesis chapter one and compare the order of creation (from a world fully covered with water all the way to humans) what science teaches is the very same order.

How could someone living ~3500 years ago knowing what science believes just ~100-150 year ago ?

Day one let there be light..... Day four our sun is created?
Day three vegetation without sun?
Pangaea? Continental drift?
We know how landlocked seas came into being. We know that this was a slow process and didn't happen all at once.
Are dinosaurs mentioned at all? Where do we get dinosaur fossils from? I've re-read Genesis 1 and it's not at all compatible with modern day science.

 

[Mancunian]

Scientific proof for Pangaea comes from multiple matching lines of geological, fossil, and climatological evidence supported by the theory of plate tectonics.

1. Jigsaw-Like Continental Fit
• Coastline Matching: The edge of South America's eastern coast fits directly against the western coast of Africa, much like puzzle pieces.
• Continental Shelves: Mapping the true edges of the continents at their continental shelf boundaries reveals an even tighter, more accurate fit.

2. Fossil Distribution
• Identical Species: Fossils of the freshwater reptile Mesosaurus have been found exclusively in South America and southern Africa. This creature could not have swum across a vast, salty ocean.
• Plant Fossils: The seed fern Glossopteris is widely distributed across disconnected landmasses including Africa, South America, Australia, India, and Antarctica.
• Land Reptiles: Fossils of Lystrosaurus appear across Africa, India, and Antarctica, showing these land areas were once joined.

3. Matching Rock and Mountain Formations
• Mountain Chains: The Appalachian Mountains of eastern North America align seamlessly with the Caledonian mountain chain in Scotland, Ireland, and Scandinavia when the Atlantic Ocean is closed.
• Rock Strata: Identical layers of rock types and structural trends match perfectly across separated Atlantic coasts.

4. Paleoclimate Clues
• Glacial Deposits: Evidence of ancient glacial till and ice sheets from roughly 300 million years ago is found in regions that are now near the equator, such as southern Africa, India, and South America.
• Coal Beds: Extensive coal deposits—which form from tropical swamp forests—exist in cold, icy Antarctica. These climates only make sense if the landmasses were positioned differently and connected as a supercontinent.

5. Modern Tectonic Proof
• Magnetic Striping: Symmetrical, barcode-like magnetic patterns in rocks on opposite sides of mid-ocean ridges prove that new oceanic crust continuously forms and spreads outward.
• Satellite Measurements: Modern GPS and satellite data directly measure tectonic plate movement, showing that the Atlantic Ocean continues to widen by a few centimeters every year.

 

[ProDeo]

Day one let there be light..... Day four our sun is created?
Day three vegetation without sun?
Pangaea? Continental drift?
We know how landlocked seas came into being. We know that this was a slow process and didn't happen all at once.
Are dinosaurs mentioned at all? Where do we get dinosaur fossils from? I've re-read Genesis 1 and it's not at all compatible with modern day science.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Check snowball earth, once earth was fully covered with ice (water).

Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. Sun light reaches Earth.

Gen 1:6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters Creation of the atmosphere.
Gen 1:9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. And there is your Pangaea.

Gen 1:11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. Plants indeed came first.

Gen 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, Earth starts rotating.

Gen 1:20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” Exactly right, fish came first, then birds.

Gen 1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And there are the beast, science also got that right.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Yep, mankind came last, science also got that right.

It took science ~3000 years to figure it out and confirm Genesis 1.

 

[Marvelloustime]

yet what IF i told you mr wrangler that its through this guise
that it will ONLY APPLY to the all inclusive . NOT to those who maintain FAITH IN ONLY JESUS .
What would you do taken if i told
you that gays would be protected , mulisms , false christains , THE INCLUSIVE ones ,
but any that does expose the errors of the false , WILL NOT be protected wrangler but WILL BE PERSECUTED .
THAT is exactly what is happening and what will soon c ome upon this entire world .
And man was it sold to us all as false love , as tolerance , as a means to attain world peace n safety .
The problem is many have FAR TOO MUCH fear so they run to anything that sounds remotely good .
ME , I R UN TO GOD , TO HIS CHRIST and i understand we will be persecuted .
And i dont run to an ecumeincal harlot and that which is of anti christ FOR MY PROTECTION , peace n safety .
ALL OF IT is a snare wrangler .
AND believe me its gonna merge them as one and all will believe it to be the peace plan of God .
WHEN all it ever was , was of satan , of his harlot of that which is of anti christ .
A Lying spirit sent to all false religoins and to christendom for to buy a lie that all will beleive
IS the way to peace n safety .
When all it was, IS the road to their own sudden destruction ON THE DAY OF THE LORD
and by THIS VERY LORD JESUS that their love and their peace DENIED . Gospel got denied wrangler .
THE GOSPEL GOT DENIED . And you all expect ME to link arms with that . NEVER .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

he better be looking to JESUS epi .
as usual you always allow UNBELEIF to remain upon this people .

@amigo de christo

 

[Mancunian]

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Check snowball earth, once earth was fully covered with ice (water).

Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. Sun light reaches Earth.

Gen 1:6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters Creation of the atmosphere.
Gen 1:9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. And there is your Pangaea.

Gen 1:11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. Plants indeed came first.

Gen 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, Earth starts rotating.

Gen 1:20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” Exactly right, fish came first, then birds.

Gen 1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And there are the beast, science also got that right.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Yep, mankind came last, science also got that right.

It took science ~3000 years to figure it out and confirm Genesis 1.

Humans (Homo sapiens) first appeared roughly 200,000 to 300,000 years ago, and while humans are still undergoing contemporary genetic shifts (such as adaptations for digesting milk or fighting diseases), new species of insects, fish, plants, and microbes emerge daily.

So mankind didn't 'come last' as you put it, there are various newer species we can point to.

 

[Mancunian]

We know that the OT God didn't create the earth with Pangaea as the land mass as suggested above. If we are to believe what the Bible clearly states then genealogy alone disproves that.
The Mediterranean is mentioned numerous times but wouldn't have existed in the time frame.
My question about prehistoric creatures existing on this planet was conveniently ignored too.

 

[ProDeo]

Humans (Homo sapiens) first appeared roughly 200,000 to 300,000 years ago, and while humans are still undergoing contemporary genetic shifts (such as adaptations for digesting milk or fighting diseases), new species of insects, fish, plants, and microbes emerge daily.

So mankind didn't 'come last' as you put it, there are various newer species we can point to.

Earth contains millions of species. New species are detected frequently. Nobody argues against micro evolution, an insect may evolve, it remains an insect. It doesn't miraculously changes into a frog and kissing a frog does not create a prince.

We know that the OT God didn't create the earth with Pangaea as the land mass as suggested above. If we are to believe what the Bible clearly states then genealogy alone disproves that.
The Mediterranean is mentioned numerous times but wouldn't have existed in the time frame.
My question about prehistoric creatures existing on this planet was conveniently ignored too.

I ignored noting, you just changed the subject.

I stick to my early statement :

Read Genesis chapter one and compare the order of creation (from a world fully covered with water all the way to humans) what science teaches is the very same order.

 

[NayborBear]

Am I to stop reading the Bible?
I'm all the way through Leviticus.... I've learned a lot about burnt offerings and what is seen as sexual misconduct.
There are direct commands to Moses about how the Israelites should punish such misconduct.
Again, not comfortable reading.

I might well be my brain but I can't help thinking that the God of the Old Testament sounds extremely regional, not the genius who put together the laws of physics mathematics and coded our DNA.

As you know I have no problem accepting that a creator could be responsible for everything that we see, but three books into the Bible and I wouldn't put money on it being the God as described therein.
People tell me that you need to look at the Bible as a whole and that's what I'm doing, the first three books don't get me any closer to finding out about the creator of the universe. In fact all that I've read up to now points towards a primitive belief based upon a God that cares about clean and unclean animals, the length of your hair and suchlike.
Difficult for me to look at the night sky in all it's wonder and imagine that the God that I'm reading about was in any way involved.

I can tell you this @Mancunian.
You've a lot more understanding then others, and yourself give you credit for!
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The "stuggle/s", and admittlingly, they are difficult, and can be confusing, is a "TIME thing! (I myself refer this/these "time elements" as "slices of Eternity")"
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.
Psalm 41:13

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting, and TO everlasting. Amen, and Amen.

Or? As I have learned? "Slices of Eternity!"

And THIS is because in God's "Grand Scheme" of separating "wheat from chaff?"
TIME (slices of Eternity) is REQUIRED!
Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth (aka Everlasting aka slice/s of Eternity): and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth (aka Age/s aka slices of Eternity) shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Nehemiah 9:17
And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.
Nahum 1:3
The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

Just? Just read my signature line.
Being "mindful" to not become "ensnared" in that "Idolatrous Flesh Hook!"

 

[amigo de christo]

You never once stated the dire need to first believe on Jesus. No mention at all. Where is your priority? What is going on....are you turning to reasoning now...thinking even?

You are slipping and being hypocritical no? You want others to do what you say...but you are not doing it yourself.

So then get back to your trench where you live and call out the people to believe on Jesus.

such a sad attempt on your part epi .

 

[Episkopos]

such a sad attempt on your part epi .

That's how I see your grandstanding.

 

[Wrangler]

I actually call out your unbelief all the time. That and your incoherence and inability to say anything in context.

This is why I put him on ignore several years ago. His interfaith posts are made no matter what the thread topic is. Very sad.

Then there is his alter ego who only posts after he does. The mods must see this.

 

[NayborBear]

This is why I put him on ignore several years ago. His interfaith posts are made no matter what the thread topic is. Very sad.

Then there is his alter ego who only posts after he does. The mods must see this.

I've not as long exposure to him as you.
Yet? Didn't take very much of his "cries from a ditch" I guess would be a way of analysis before he and about 6 er 7 others made the "C'ya!" "Wouldn't wanna B'ya!" list!

 

[Jericho]

We know that the OT God didn't create the earth with Pangaea as the land mass as suggested above. If we are to believe what the Bible clearly states then genealogy alone disproves that.
The Mediterranean is mentioned numerous times but wouldn't have existed in the time frame.
My question about prehistoric creatures existing on this planet was conveniently ignored too.

I haven't been following this conversation, so I don't know if this has been covered or not. But there are differing views even among Christians about this. There are young earth creationists and old earth creationists. I err on the side of an old earth but a relatively young humanity. There is something called the Genesis Gap Theory that suggests something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. God created the universe and earth; there was an angelic rebellion that caused disorder and ruination, and the earth was rendered barren and lifeless for an indeterminate period of time. If that is true, then the Genesis account is more of a recreation.

As to the age of humanity, I reject the commonly held assertion that Homo sapiens are 200,000 to 300,000 years old for a number of reasons. Recorded human history only goes back roughly 5,200–5,400 years, the bulk of it being in the last 2,000 years. The oldest human structures still standing only date back to 11,000 to 12,000 years. If humans are hundreds of thousands of years old, I would expect the historical and archaeological evidence to be much older, but it isn't. I'm willing to concede humans are older than 6,000 years, possibly in the tens of thousands, but not in the hundreds of thousands. Humans invented the wheel 5,500 years ago. I have a hard time believing it took humans 295,000 years just to invent something that is a basic geometric shape found in nature.

There is also problems with radiocarbon dating, where a lot of these dates comes from. It seems to be less accurate the further back it goes. The problem is, it assumes the rate of decay has always been constant, which we don't know is true. Even if the rate of decay has been constant, there are things that can skew the results, such as carbon contamination, volcanic eruptions, and solar activity. At the end of the day, nobody can go back in time to verify those dates.

 

[NayborBear]

Psalm 102:25
Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Job 35:11
Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?

(hint)
Well?.....It AIN'T Buggs Bunny!

 

[Marvelloustime]

such a sad attempt on your part epi .

@amigo de christo

 

[Mancunian]

This is why I put him on ignore several years ago. His interfaith posts are made no matter what the thread topic is. Very sad.

Then there is his alter ego who only posts after he does. The mods must see this.

I've noticed that too and I've only been here a few weeks....

 

[Mancunian]

I haven't been following this conversation, so I don't know if this has been covered or not. But there are differing views even among Christians about this. There are young earth creationists and old earth creationists. I err on the side of an old earth but a relatively young humanity. There is something called the Genesis Gap Theory that suggests something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. God created the universe and earth; there was an angelic rebellion that caused disorder and ruination, and the earth was rendered barren and lifeless for an indeterminate period of time. If that is true, then the Genesis account is more of a recreation.

As to the age of humanity, I reject the commonly held assertion that Homo sapiens are 200,000 to 300,000 years old for a number of reasons. Recorded human history only goes back roughly 5,200–5,400 years, the bulk of it being in the last 2,000 years. The oldest human structures still standing only date back to 11,000 to 12,000 years. If humans are hundreds of thousands of years old, I would expect the historical and archaeological evidence to be much older, but it isn't. I'm willing to concede humans are older than 6,000 years, possibly in the tens of thousands, but not in the hundreds of thousands. Humans invented the wheel 5,500 years ago. I have a hard time believing it took humans 295,000 years just to invent something that is a basic geometric shape found in nature.

There is also problems with radiocarbon dating, where a lot of these dates comes from. It seems to be less accurate the further back it goes. The problem is, it assumes the rate of decay has always been constant, which we don't know is true. Even if the rate of decay has been constant, there are things that can skew the results, such as carbon contamination, volcanic eruptions, and solar activity. At the end of the day, nobody can go back in time to verify those dates.

It's currently the best way we have to date materials. Together with geology and the fossil record there seems to be a general consensus on accuracy.
I was reading today about Norwegian Lemmings and Italian Wall Lizards.... Interesting stuff. Then I read about the appearance of Homosapiens and our primate cousins, the Gibbon branch that splintered away before that, and the missing link that ties it all together.
I'm thinking that a certain amount of guesswork is involved due to the huge amount of time required for notable changes to occur, but those changes do show in the fossil record.
Of course we have significant gaps in our knowledge, we're not able to travel back in time there is no way that humans could possibly witness the gradual change from one species to another... But a creator could, that's if that was the intention all along.

 

[Wrangler]

The Mediterranean is mentioned numerous times but wouldn't have existed in the time frame.

What makes you say that?