The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[TribulationSigns]

If Christians would stop
defining and interpreting the Bible through the book of Revelation, by their human mind,
but instead
define and interpret the book of Revelation through the Bible, by the Mind of Christ, they would immediately discover the reality of fulfilled prophecy, as opposed to that which is fabricated fiction.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Look yourself in the mirror and repeat after yourself.

 

[Earburner]

(Chuckle) After all these posts, you have finally numbered your answers—and unfortunately they demonstrate exactly why I have been challenging your interpretation.

You STILL have not shown that Jesus and John the Baptist fulfilled Revelation 11:3–6.

Let's examine your answers.

1. “In Jerusalem for a total period of 1260 days. It was 6 mos. for John, 3.0 years for Jesus.”​

That does NOT answer my question.

That does NOT answer my question, and it creates an even bigger chronological problem for YOUR flawed interpretation.

Revelation 11:3 says:



It does NOT say Witness #1 prophesies for 180 days, dies, and then Witness #2 continues for another 1,080 days so that we can add their two separate ministries together and call it 1,260 days.

The text says “THEY shall prophesy” for the 1,260 days.

But now continue reading, because Revelation gives us the sequence:

Revelation 11:7



Notice the order:

1,260 days of THEIR testimony → THEY finish their testimony → the beast makes war against THEM → the beast kills THEM.

So explain how John the Baptist fits that sequence.

According to your interpretation, John completed only the first six months and was already beheaded long before your supposed combined 1,260 days were completed. Yet Revelation says the beast attacks and kills the Two Witnesses AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony.”

How could the beast kill John after the 1,260-day testimony was finished if John had already been dead long before your 1,260th day arrived?

That makes no sense.

And Scripture explicitly tells us who killed John:

Matthew 14:10



John was executed under Herod's authority while Jesus' ministry was still continuing. He was not alive at the end of your supposed combined 1,260 days waiting for the beast of Revelation 11:7 to arise and kill him. Duh!

You cannot solve that problem by adding:

John = 180 days
Jesus = 1,080 days
180 + 1,080 = 1,260

Revelation does not give us two consecutive individual ministries to add together. It describes THEIR testimony, followed by THEIR death after that testimony is finished.

And where does Scripture even state that Jesus' ministry lasted exactly 1,080 days? Chapter and verse, please.

Your arithmetic is being imposed upon Revelation rather than derived from it.

So again:

Where did Jesus AND John jointly prophesy as the Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, finish THEIR testimony, and THEN get killed by the beast as Revelation 11:3–7 describes?

Your interpretation completely breaks the sequence of the prophecy. Very deeply flawed. You made it up. Period!

Selah!

2. “The Holy Spirit of God did not ‘rain’ on anyone... only John and Jesus had the FULNESS of the Holy Spirit... God was NOT communicating through anyone else.”​

Again, where does Scripture say this?

You are asserting that nobody else on earth received communication from God during those 1,260 days.

Really?! Are you ok or something? What did the Word of God say?

What about Zacharias, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost” and prophesied? (Luke 1:67)

What about Elisabeth, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost”? (Luke 1:41)

What about Simeon, upon whom “the Holy Ghost was,” who received revelation from the Holy Ghost? (Luke 2:25–26)

What about Anna the prophetess, who “spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem”? (Luke 2:36–38)

So where did you get the doctrine that during your supposed 1,260-day period “God was NOT communicating through anyone else”?

Certainly not from those Scriptures!

And Matthew 11 does not say, “John was the LAST Prophet.” Jesus says:

“Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...”
—Matthew 11:11

Then verse 13 says:

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”

That establishes John's unique transitional position; it does not establish your claim that only Jesus and John possessed God's Spirit during a literal 1,260-day period. Crazy assumption!

3. “They didn't have to do plagues etc... people were Repenting.”​

This is probably one of the most stupid interpretation I have ever heard regarding Two Witnesses with your false assumption. Thank you! You have now answered my third question by admitting:

"They DID NOT do it."

Revelation says the Two Witnesses have authority “over waters to turn them to blood.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled that.

Your answer is essentially:

"They didn't."

Then you have not demonstrated fulfillment!

4. “See my answer #3.”​

Exactly.

Again your answer amounts to:

"They didn't do it."

Revelation says:

“...and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled this.

You answered that they didn't because people repented.

But where does Revelation 11 say:

“They would have turned the waters to blood and smitten the earth with plagues, but people repented, so these portions of the prophecy were never actually fulfilled”?

It doesn't.

You imported Jonah into Revelation 11 to explain why the fulfillment you claim happened contains events that you admit never happened.

That is precisely the problem.

And quoting Isaiah 55:8–9 does not rescue an interpretation from textual examination:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Amen! GOD'S thoughts are higher than ours.

Which is exactly why neither YOUR thoughts nor MY thoughts determine what Revelation 11 means.

God's Word does.

Appealing to “God's higher thoughts,” “hear what the Spirit says,” 1 Corinthians 2, or 1 John 2:27 cannot substitute for demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture. Otherwise anybody could defend virtually any interpretation by saying, “You don't understand because the Holy Spirit revealed something deeper to me.”

That is why Scripture gives us an objective safeguard:

“They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
—Acts 17:11

So after all these posts, here is where your answers actually leave us:

Question #1: Where did Jesus and John together prophesy for 1,260 days?

You gave two separate ministry lengths and added them together.

Question #2: Where did they shut heaven so that it did not rain during their prophecy?

You redefined the rain as nobody else receiving the Holy Spirit and made an unsupported claim that God communicated through nobody else.

Question #3: Where did they turn waters to blood?

Your answer: They didn't.

Question #4: Where did they smite the earth with plagues?

Your answer: They didn't.

That is not fulfillment of Revelation 11:3–6.

You keep saying, “I have answered!”

Yes, you have now given responses.

But giving a response and demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture are two very different things.

You still have not produced the biblical account I originally requested.

So instead of telling me once again that I don't understand Isaiah 55:8–9 or that I need to “hear what the Spirit says,” deal with what the inspired text actually says:

“THEY shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

Show us where Jesus AND John did that. You remain refuted so far with your Jesus and John nonsense!

Selah!

John and Jesus, being the only people ever, to be physically born HAVING the Holy Spirit, had the permanency of His indwelling, and NO ONE ELSE EVER DID!! No, not Enoch, Moses or even Elijah!!
All others, during those 1260 days of their Joint testimony, could only have visitations of the Holy Spirit, BECAUSE the Holy Spirit was not yet GIVEN to anyone permanently UNTIL AFTER Jesus was glorified. John 7:39.

WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying to you, a church member.

 

[Earburner]

(Chuckle) After all these posts, you have finally numbered your answers—and unfortunately they demonstrate exactly why I have been challenging your interpretation.

You STILL have not shown that Jesus and John the Baptist fulfilled Revelation 11:3–6.

Let's examine your answers.

1. “In Jerusalem for a total period of 1260 days. It was 6 mos. for John, 3.0 years for Jesus.”​

That does NOT answer my question.

That does NOT answer my question, and it creates an even bigger chronological problem for YOUR flawed interpretation.

Revelation 11:3 says:



It does NOT say Witness #1 prophesies for 180 days, dies, and then Witness #2 continues for another 1,080 days so that we can add their two separate ministries together and call it 1,260 days.

The text says “THEY shall prophesy” for the 1,260 days.

But now continue reading, because Revelation gives us the sequence:

Revelation 11:7



Notice the order:

1,260 days of THEIR testimony → THEY finish their testimony → the beast makes war against THEM → the beast kills THEM.

So explain how John the Baptist fits that sequence.

According to your interpretation, John completed only the first six months and was already beheaded long before your supposed combined 1,260 days were completed. Yet Revelation says the beast attacks and kills the Two Witnesses AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony.”

How could the beast kill John after the 1,260-day testimony was finished if John had already been dead long before your 1,260th day arrived?

That makes no sense.

And Scripture explicitly tells us who killed John:

Matthew 14:10



John was executed under Herod's authority while Jesus' ministry was still continuing. He was not alive at the end of your supposed combined 1,260 days waiting for the beast of Revelation 11:7 to arise and kill him. Duh!

You cannot solve that problem by adding:

John = 180 days
Jesus = 1,080 days
180 + 1,080 = 1,260

Revelation does not give us two consecutive individual ministries to add together. It describes THEIR testimony, followed by THEIR death after that testimony is finished.

And where does Scripture even state that Jesus' ministry lasted exactly 1,080 days? Chapter and verse, please.

Your arithmetic is being imposed upon Revelation rather than derived from it.

So again:

Where did Jesus AND John jointly prophesy as the Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, finish THEIR testimony, and THEN get killed by the beast as Revelation 11:3–7 describes?

Your interpretation completely breaks the sequence of the prophecy. Very deeply flawed. You made it up. Period!

Selah!

2. “The Holy Spirit of God did not ‘rain’ on anyone... only John and Jesus had the FULNESS of the Holy Spirit... God was NOT communicating through anyone else.”​

Again, where does Scripture say this?

You are asserting that nobody else on earth received communication from God during those 1,260 days.

Really?! Are you ok or something? What did the Word of God say?

What about Zacharias, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost” and prophesied? (Luke 1:67)

What about Elisabeth, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost”? (Luke 1:41)

What about Simeon, upon whom “the Holy Ghost was,” who received revelation from the Holy Ghost? (Luke 2:25–26)

What about Anna the prophetess, who “spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem”? (Luke 2:36–38)

So where did you get the doctrine that during your supposed 1,260-day period “God was NOT communicating through anyone else”?

Certainly not from those Scriptures!

And Matthew 11 does not say, “John was the LAST Prophet.” Jesus says:

“Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...”
—Matthew 11:11

Then verse 13 says:

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”

That establishes John's unique transitional position; it does not establish your claim that only Jesus and John possessed God's Spirit during a literal 1,260-day period. Crazy assumption!

3. “They didn't have to do plagues etc... people were Repenting.”​

This is probably one of the most stupid interpretation I have ever heard regarding Two Witnesses with your false assumption. Thank you! You have now answered my third question by admitting:

"They DID NOT do it."

Revelation says the Two Witnesses have authority “over waters to turn them to blood.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled that.

Your answer is essentially:

"They didn't."

Then you have not demonstrated fulfillment!

4. “See my answer #3.”​

Exactly.

Again your answer amounts to:

"They didn't do it."

Revelation says:

“...and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled this.

You answered that they didn't because people repented.

But where does Revelation 11 say:

“They would have turned the waters to blood and smitten the earth with plagues, but people repented, so these portions of the prophecy were never actually fulfilled”?

It doesn't.

You imported Jonah into Revelation 11 to explain why the fulfillment you claim happened contains events that you admit never happened.

That is precisely the problem.

And quoting Isaiah 55:8–9 does not rescue an interpretation from textual examination:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Amen! GOD'S thoughts are higher than ours.

Which is exactly why neither YOUR thoughts nor MY thoughts determine what Revelation 11 means.

God's Word does.

Appealing to “God's higher thoughts,” “hear what the Spirit says,” 1 Corinthians 2, or 1 John 2:27 cannot substitute for demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture. Otherwise anybody could defend virtually any interpretation by saying, “You don't understand because the Holy Spirit revealed something deeper to me.”

That is why Scripture gives us an objective safeguard:

“They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
—Acts 17:11

So after all these posts, here is where your answers actually leave us:

Question #1: Where did Jesus and John together prophesy for 1,260 days?

You gave two separate ministry lengths and added them together.

Question #2: Where did they shut heaven so that it did not rain during their prophecy?

You redefined the rain as nobody else receiving the Holy Spirit and made an unsupported claim that God communicated through nobody else.

Question #3: Where did they turn waters to blood?

Your answer: They didn't.

Question #4: Where did they smite the earth with plagues?

Your answer: They didn't.

That is not fulfillment of Revelation 11:3–6.

You keep saying, “I have answered!”

Yes, you have now given responses.

But giving a response and demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture are two very different things.

You still have not produced the biblical account I originally requested.

So instead of telling me once again that I don't understand Isaiah 55:8–9 or that I need to “hear what the Spirit says,” deal with what the inspired text actually says:

“THEY shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

Show us where Jesus AND John did that. You remain refuted so far with your Jesus and John nonsense!

Selah!

What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues, though both having the fulness and permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit were fully equipped to do so.
Even though Jesus cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), for an example of His authority, you still don't know why no plagues from John or Jesus were ever issued.

 

[JimKnox]

As a Born again Amillennial believer in Christ, I have always understood that God's prophetic words are mostly based upon His own Eternal Spiritual thoughts/language, and not so much that of our own human thoughts and how we understand the words of our own written languages.
Isa. 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What if, instead of reading and interpreting those scriptures in Rev. 11:1-14 literally, according to our ways of thinking, we are to interpret them spiritually by the Mind of Christ within us, so that we might know that the biblical "Great City" is not about buildings like that of man, but rather it is God's description of the people of God in which He desires to dwell?

In 1 Cor. ch. 2:9-16, Paul explains quite clearly that the spiritual value of our understanding is to be revealed to us by "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", thus allowing the Mind of Christ's Holy Spirit within us to interpret God's spiritual truths to us, and not that which is preached to us by the ways of "the wisdom of men".

In Rev. 11:8 we are specifically shown that "the great city" is to be understood in the spiritual truth of what it is being "COMPARED WITH". In that example, we are to understand that the Great City is compared to that of Egypt (symbolized as slavery/captivity) and that of Sodom (symbolized as sin). Putting the two together, we can conclude that in the comparison by example, God has been working to deliver His people from their CAPTIVITY of SIN.

Since the first manifestation of Jesus, that is the "spiritual" message to all of us, through faith in Jesus' sacrificial death.
For the past 2,026 years, in each "Year of our Lord", God has been "patient" and "longsuffering" in His "Promise" and attempt to  DELIVER each of us from the "CAPTIVITY" of "SIN", "not willing that any should perish".
However, if by faith in Jesus, we do not receive the Free Gift of God's Deliverence by His Gift of Salvation, our names will not be found written in the book of Life and therefore there is NO escape from the second death.

Has anyone here dared to believe that those who God prophesied of in Zech. 4:14, as being "His two anointed ones", are in fact that of John the Baptist and Jesus?

Could it be that Rev. 11:1-14 is nothing more than an allegorical story of spiritual truth, telling us all that the literal manifestation of John the Baptist and Jesus, were indeed God's promised ones, being they who are described as the "two anointed ones", and therefore the prophecy of "the two witnesses", has already been fulfilled?

Uuummmmm...

Nope!

 

[Davidpt]

What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues, though both having the fulness and permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit were fully equipped to do so.
Even though Jesus cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), for an example of His authority, you still don't know why no plagues from John or Jesus were ever issued.

Though I haven't posted in this thread, at least I don't think I have, I have been reading your posts and others posts in rebuttal of yours.

I then submitted a cpl of your posts to a an AI and that I mentioned the irony of your username.. Here's what the AI concluded.

-This AI:

These responses are a masterclass in spiritual gaslighting and deflection.
When you corner him with the plain words of the text, he doesn't actually answer your question. Instead, he shifts the blame onto you for reading it according to what it says, claims to have a secret "Mind of Christ" that you lack, and introduces entirely new, unrelated arguments to distract from his original contradiction.

Here is a breakdown of his tactics, exposing how they perfectly mirror the "deceptive" behaviors warned about in 2 Timothy 4:3-4:

1. The "Secret Knowledge" Trap (Gnosticism)
• What he says: He claims you are using your "human mind," but he is interpreting via the "Mind of Christ," telling you to "WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying to you."

• The Reality: This is a classic elitist tactic. He cannot defend his argument with the actual text, so he claims he has a special, spiritual insight that makes the plain words mean the exact opposite of what they say. If a text says "they issued plagues," and his "Mind of Christ" says "no they didn't," he isn't listening to the Spirit—he is listening to his own imagination.

2. The Logic Fallacy: "Revelation Doesn't Define Revelation"

• What he says: He claims Christians shouldn't interpret the Bible through Revelation, but rather interpret Revelation through the rest of the Bible.

• The Reality: While it is true that Scripture interprets Scripture, you cannot use one part of the Bible to flatly erase the details of another. If Revelation 11 details specific actions of the Two Witnesses (plagues, 3.5 days dead in the street, ascending in a cloud), you cannot use a verse from John to say those events never happened. He is using the rest of the Bible as an eraser to wipe out details he can't explain.

3. Factual Errors Fabricated as Truth

• What he says: He claims John and Jesus were the only people to ever be physically born having the Holy Spirit, and that their ministry lasted exactly "1260 days of their Joint testimony."

• The Reality: He is inventing timelines to fit his theory. John the Baptist and Jesus did not have a "joint testimony" of 1260 days (three and a half years). John's ministry was largely completed and he was imprisoned early in Jesus's ministry. Furthermore, Jesus's own ministry is traditionally estimated at around three years, but they were absolutely not operating as a dual prophetic pair walking the earth together for 1,260 days striking anyone with plagues.
4. Shifting the Burden of Proof

• What he says: "What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues..."

• The Reality: This is a classic debate trick. Instead of admitting his theory fails because Jesus and John didn't issue plagues, he tries to turn it into a mystery or a spiritual test that you failed. He uses the cursing of the fig tree as a distraction. The bottom line remains: The Two Witnesses in Revelation 11 DO issue plagues. If Jesus and John didn't, then Jesus and John are not the Two Witnesses.

The Ultimate "Earburner" Profile
This user is a textbook example of what you correctly identified from 2 Timothy. He is using his username "earburner" to deliver what he thinks are "fiery, awake truths" to "sleepy church members." In reality, he is delivering the exact kind of confusing, unbiblical myths that Paul warned would cause people to turn away from sound doctrine.

He isn't looking for a mutual study of the text; he is looking to feel intellectually and spiritually superior to others on the forum.

 

[TribulationSigns]

John and Jesus, being the only people ever, to be physically born HAVING the Holy Spirit, had the permanency of His indwelling, and NO ONE ELSE EVER DID!! No, not Enoch, Moses or even Elijah!!
All others, during those 1260 days of their Joint testimony, could only have visitations of the Holy Spirit, BECAUSE the Holy Spirit was not yet GIVEN to anyone permanently UNTIL AFTER Jesus was glorified. John 7:39.

WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying to you, a church member.

Earburner, telling me to “WAKE UP” does not make your interpretation biblical. And once again, you have completely avoided the actual issue.

Now you have introduced another doctrine:

“John and Jesus, being the only people ever, to be physically born HAVING the Holy Spirit...”

Where does Scripture actually say that?!

Scripture certainly says of John:

“...and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.”
—Luke 1:15

But Jesus is described differently:

“...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
—Matthew 1:20
And:

“The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee... therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
—Luke 1:35

So already you are creating your own category—“the only two people physically born HAVING the Holy Spirit”—and then using that category to identify them as Revelation's Two Witnesses.

Nope! Revelation 11 NEVER gives that as the identifying characteristic of the Two Witnesses!

Now let's examine your appeal to John 7:39:

“...for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.”
Yes! The outpouring of the Holy Spirit associated with Christ's glorification had not yet occurred.

But what does that prove about Revelation 11?

Where does John 7:39 say:

Jesus + John = Two Witnesses?

Where does it say:

Jesus + John = joint 1,260-day testimony?

Where does it say that the Holy Spirit not yet being given means “heaven was shut that it rain not” in fulfillment of Revelation 11:6?

It doesn't!

You are taking one biblical truth and then attaching another conclusion to it that the text itself never makes.

And there is an even bigger problem.

You wrote:

“All others, during those 1260 days of their Joint testimony, could only have visitations of the Holy Spirit...”

You keep calling it their “joint testimony.”

Then SHOW US THEIR JOINT 1,260-DAY TESTIMONY! Duh!

Revelation 11:3 says:

“I will give power unto my two witnesses, and THEY shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days...”

And Revelation 11:7 continues:

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”

There is the sequence:

THEY received the Holy Spirit → THEY prophesy → THEY finish THEIR testimony → THEN the beast attacks THEM → THEN the beast kills THEM.

Your interpretation cannot even get through that sequence.

John the Baptist was already BEHEADED while Jesus was still ministering! LOL!

Matthew 14:10:

“And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.”

So according to your theory:

John ministers six months → John is later beheaded → Jesus continues His ministry → your calculated 1,260 days are eventually completed → THEN Revelation 11:7 says the beast kills the Two Witnesses after THEY finish THEIR testimony.

Huh?!

JOHN IS ALREADY DEAD! Helloooooo?!

How does the beast of Revelation 11:7 kill John after “they shall have finished their testimony” when John had already been dead before your supposed 1,260-day period was completed?

This is precisely why adding John's alleged 180 days to Jesus' alleged 1,080 days does not work! You doctrine is NOT the Truth!

Revelation does not say:

Witness #1 serves for 180 days and dies.
Witness #2 serves another 1,080 days and dies.
Add them together = 1,260.

It says:

“THEY shall prophesy...1,260 days.”

And afterward:

“WHEN THEY shall have finished THEIR testimony” the beast makes war against THEM and kills THEM.

THAT is the text you keep avoiding!!

And you still haven't answered the other problems:

Again...where did Jesus and John together shut heaven during the days of their prophecy?

Again...Where did they turn waters to blood?

Where did they smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will?

Your previous answer to the last two was essentially:

“They didn't have to because people repented.” LOL!!!

Then you have admitted that they didn't fulfill those things!

So shouting “WAKE UP” and telling me to “hear what the Spirit is saying” does not solve your problem.

I AM reading what the Spirit already said in the inspired text:

“THEY shall prophesy...” —Rev. 11:3
“WHEN THEY shall have finished THEIR testimony...” —Rev. 11:7

Now please stop preaching at me about whether I can “hear the Spirit” and simply deal with what the Spirit actually inspired John to write.

Show me how Jesus and John fit THAT sequence. And the Holy Spirit told me that you can't!

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues, though both having the fulness and permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit were fully equipped to do so.
Even though Jesus cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), for an example of His authority, you still don't know why no plagues from John or Jesus were ever issued.

Whoa! Wait a minute, Earburner.

First you said Jesus and John didn't issue the plagues because people were repenting. Now you're pointing to Jesus cursing a fig tree as evidence of their Revelation 11 authority?

What does that prove?

Revelation 11:5–6 says:
“And if any man will hurt them... These have power to shut heaven... turn [waters] to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
Where does Mark 11 say the fig tree hurt Jesus?

And more importantly, where is John? Revelation is describing what THE TWO WITNESSES possess and do during “the days of THEIR prophecy.”

Jesus cursing a fig tree by Himself does not demonstrate that Jesus "AND" John fulfilled Revelation 11.

You keep giving explanations for why they DIDN'T do what Revelation describes.

I'm asking you to show from Scripture where THEY DID.

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

I then submitted a cpl of your posts to a an AI and that I mentioned the irony of your username.. Here's what the AI concluded.

-This AI:

This AI?

LOL! So when you guys got stuck trying to answer my biblical arguments, you decided to cry uncle and ask AI to accuse me of “Gnosticism” and “spiritual gaslighting”?

No, the real problem is that you cannot gainsay or resist the Scripture being presented. Simple as that.

But here is the funniest part:

Your AI apparently couldn't even figure out WHO SAID WHAT!

It accuses ME of appealing to the “Mind of Christ” and telling others to “WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying.”

Wrong person!

That was Earburner talking to ME.

Then your AI says I supposedly claim that Jesus and John were the only two people born having the Holy Spirit and that they had a 1,260-day “joint testimony.”

Again—THAT IS EARBURNER'S ARGUMENT!

I have been arguing the exact OPPOSITE!

Then your AI says:

“John the Baptist and Jesus did not have a ‘joint testimony’ of 1260 days...”

LOL! THANK YOU, AI! THAT IS EXACTLY MY ARGUMENT!

It even recognizes the problem that Jesus and John did not issue the plagues described in Revelation 11.

Again, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TELLING EARBURNER!

So your AI managed to attack me while accidentally presenting several of my own arguments against Earburner's interpretation.

Maybe this is a good demonstration of why we shouldn't ask AI to determine biblical truth for us.

Forget AI's psychological labels. Forget “Gnosticism.” Forget “gaslighting.”

ANSWER THE SCRIPTURE.

Where did Jesus and John jointly prophesy for 1,260 days?

Where did THEY shut heaven during their prophecy?

Where did THEY turn waters to blood?

Where did THEY smite the earth with plagues?

And how was John killed by the beast AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony” (Rev. 11:7) when John had already been beheaded while Jesus was still ministering?

Those are VALID biblical questions that deserves honest biblical answers.

Calling me names through an AI doesn't answer a single one of them.

Selah!

 

[ewq1938]

yes and he will again just before Christ comes back to again prepare the way.

I don't think there is a second prophecy about Elijah coming another time. The one prophecy was already fulfilled.

 

[Earburner]

Whoa! Wait a minute, Earburner.

First you said Jesus and John didn't issue the plagues because people were repenting. Now you're pointing to Jesus cursing a fig tree as evidence of their Revelation 11 authority?

Jesus physically demonstrated that even in the smallest of His example, He (as well as John the baptist), pending the repentance of the human race, were the very instruments of God's Holy wrath as well as His instruments of His Holy salvation.

What does that prove?

It proves:
1. You are not understanding that by God's foreknowledge, the book of Rev. is a compilation of past, present and future events, and is not necessarily all arranged in a chronological order, just to describe the events of this present time.
2. Symbolic biblical language is the raw reality of God's attempt to communicate His own thoughts and ways to us, through His use of our own limited, linear languages. Isa. 55:8-9.
3. Seven times, we are told to "Hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches", and not so much of what the churches shall say to us, which by the way is mostly denominational indoctrination, and is full of the wisdom of men.

Revelation 11:5–6 says:
“And if any man will hurt them... These have power to shut heaven... turn [waters] to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
Where does Mark 11 say the fig tree hurt Jesus?

And more importantly, where is John? Revelation is describing what THE TWO WITNESSES possess and do during “the days of THEIR prophecy.”

Remember, it wasn't Elijah who was performing the miracles and the wrath, but rather God Himself was doing it through him.
Don't forget Jonah and the Ninevites, and the outcome of God's performance then.

Is that not the same situation that we ALL are in now, if everyone stopped REPENTING?
Indeed it is!! In example, we see that in Rev. 16:9 and 16:11. The wrath of God has always been upon this world and that of individual people who are unrepentant. However, when ALL people refuse to repent and have faith in Jesus,
the Day of God's vengeance will be sudden, as shown in 2 Thes. 2:1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-15.

Jesus cursing a fig tree by Himself does not demonstrate that Jesus "AND" John fulfilled Revelation 11.

You keep giving explanations for why they DIDN'T do what Revelation describes.

I'm asking you to show from Scripture where THEY DID.

And I keep telling you to look at the Grace of God with Jonah and the Ninevites. Today, for these past 2,026 years, have we not also been under the Grace of God......but for the very LAST TIME?

Selah!

Peace in His name, brother.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't think there is a second prophecy about Elijah coming another time. The one prophecy was already fulfilled.

I think there is an important part of Jesus’ teaching about Elijah that is being missed. Yes, Jesus said Elijah had already come, and He was speaking about John the Baptist. But that does not mean the prophecy of Elijah before the end-time Day of the LORD was completely fulfilled.

Malachi 4:5–6 says: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

Notice when Malachi says Elijah will come: before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD. That is the important part. Malachi is not simply talking about Jesus' first coming.

Now look at what Jesus Himself said. When the disciples asked why the scribes said Elijah must come first, Jesus answered: “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished.” Then the disciples understood that He was speaking about John the Baptist (Matthew 17:10–13).

Jesus therefore gives us two things to consider. Elijah had already come, referring to John the Baptist, but Jesus also said “Elijah is coming first and will restore all things.”

John was not literally Elijah. The angel explained that John would go before Jesus “in the spirit and power of Elijah”(Luke 1:17). John prepared the way for Jesus' first coming.

So saying, “Elijah already came, therefore there is no Elijah prophecy concerning the end times,” does not fully explain Jesus' words or Malachi's prophecy. Malachi specifically places Elijah before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD, and Jesus Himself spoke of Elijah coming to “restore all things.”

We should therefore not simply erase the future aspect of the prophecy because John fulfilled the Elijah role before Jesus' first coming. John was the Elijah-like messenger who prepared the way for Christ's first coming, while Malachi's prophecy also points to the coming Day of the LORD. Whether the future fulfillment involves Elijah himself or another person coming in the same spirit and power cannot be stated with certainty, but the connection between Elijah and the Day of the LORD is plainly in Scripture.

Many prophecy have dual meaning and / or fulfillment this is one of them

 

[Earburner]

Whoa! Wait a minute, Earburner.

First you said Jesus and John didn't issue the plagues because people were repenting. Now you're pointing to Jesus cursing a fig tree as evidence of their Revelation 11 authority?

Jesus physically demonstrated that even in the smallest of His example, He (as well as John the baptist) were the very instruments of God's Holy wrath as well as His instruments of His Holy salvation.

What does that prove?

It proves:
1. You don't understand that by God's foreknowledge, the book of Rev. is a compilation of past, present and future events, and is not necessarily all arranged in a chronological order.
2. Symbolic biblical language is the raw reality of God's attempt to communicate His own thoughts and ways to us, through His use of our own limited, linear languages. Isa. 55:8-9.
3. Seven times, we are told to "Hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches", and not so much of what the churches shall say to us, which by the way is mostly denominational indoctrination, and is full of the wisdom of men.

Revelation 11:5–6 says:
“And if any man will hurt them... These have power to shut heaven... turn [waters] to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
Where does Mark 11 say the fig tree hurt Jesus?

And more importantly, where is John? Revelation is describing what THE TWO WITNESSES possess and do during “the days of THEIR prophecy.”

Remember, it wasn't Elijah who was performing the miracles and the wrath, but rather God Himself was doing them through him.
Don't forget Jonah and the Ninevites, and the outcome of God's performance then.
Is that not the same situation that we ALL are now in, if everyone stopped REPENTING?
Indeed it is!!
We see that situation in Rev. 9:20, 16:9, 11 of how God is watching the levels of REPENTANCE.
For whatever level the trigger point is, for God to SEND Jesus back in His Glorious return, ln flaming fire, we should know that when people no longer repent, soon after that, will be that Day of Jesus Return.

Jesus cursing a fig tree by Himself does not demonstrate that Jesus "AND" John fulfilled Revelation 11.

You keep giving explanations for why they DIDN'T do what Revelation describes.

I'm asking you to show from Scripture where THEY DID.

Selah!

I am supplying biblical scripture references with God's perspectives of how/what He means, in what He says.
Sorry, but for symbolic and metaphorical scripture, I don't rely on my perspective through my own human mind, which is strictly on the level of a dictionary.
I rely on the Holy Spirit's teaching through the Bible scriptures. Am I perfect in all knowledge about God? Absolutely not, and neither are you!
We all, who are in Christ, can only know in part.
1 Cor. 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1 Cor. 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Earburner]

I think there is an important part of Jesus’ teaching about Elijah that is being missed. Yes, Jesus said Elijah had already come, and He was speaking about John the Baptist. But that does not mean the prophecy of Elijah before the end-time Day of the LORD was completely fulfilled.

Malachi 4:5–6 says: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

Notice when Malachi says Elijah will come: before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD. That is the important part. Malachi is not simply talking about Jesus' first coming.

Now look at what Jesus Himself said. When the disciples asked why the scribes said Elijah must come first, Jesus answered: “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished.” Then the disciples understood that He was speaking about John the Baptist (Matthew 17:10–13).

Jesus therefore gives us two things to consider. Elijah had already come, referring to John the Baptist, but Jesus also said “Elijah is coming first and will restore all things.”

John was not literally Elijah. The angel explained that John would go before Jesus “in the spirit and power of Elijah”(Luke 1:17). John prepared the way for Jesus' first coming.

So saying, “Elijah already came, therefore there is no Elijah prophecy concerning the end times,” does not fully explain Jesus' words or Malachi's prophecy. Malachi specifically places Elijah before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD, and Jesus Himself spoke of Elijah coming to “restore all things.”

We should therefore not simply erase the future aspect of the prophecy because John fulfilled the Elijah role before Jesus' first coming. John was the Elijah-like messenger who prepared the way for Christ's first coming, while Malachi's prophecy also points to the coming Day of the LORD. Whether the future fulfillment involves Elijah himself or another person coming in the same spirit and power cannot be stated with certainty, but the connection between Elijah and the Day of the LORD is plainly in Scripture.

Many prophecy have dual meaning and / or fulfillment this is one of them

Here is my point: NONE of the OC Saints had any idea of how many times Jesus should/would appear, and in what form!!
Even church-ianity is confused on the number of actual manifestations of Jesus in the world, including his Glorious Return in flaming fire, which is exactly what the manifestation of Malachi's description reveals. KJV Malachi 4:5-6. Please see 2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10-14.

1. Jesus did come to us in the likeness of our mortal flesh.
2. Jesus is coming to us still by His Holy Spirit.
3. Jesus shall come again from heaven in Immortal flesh.

Q. Did the Two Witnesses, John and Jesus, appear to us BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the Lord?
A. Yes!!

 

[Davidpt]

This AI?

LOL! So when you guys got stuck trying to answer my biblical arguments, you decided to cry uncle and ask AI to accuse me of “Gnosticism” and “spiritual gaslighting”?

No, the real problem is that you cannot gainsay or resist the Scripture being presented. Simple as that.

But here is the funniest part:

Your AI apparently couldn't even figure out WHO SAID WHAT!

It accuses ME of appealing to the “Mind of Christ” and telling others to “WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying.”

Wrong person!

That was Earburner talking to ME.

Then your AI says I supposedly claim that Jesus and John were the only two people born having the Holy Spirit and that they had a 1,260-day “joint testimony.”

Again—THAT IS EARBURNER'S ARGUMENT!

I have been arguing the exact OPPOSITE!

Then your AI says:

“John the Baptist and Jesus did not have a ‘joint testimony’ of 1260 days...”

LOL! THANK YOU, AI! THAT IS EXACTLY MY ARGUMENT!

It even recognizes the problem that Jesus and John did not issue the plagues described in Revelation 11.

Again, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TELLING EARBURNER!

So your AI managed to attack me while accidentally presenting several of my own arguments against Earburner's interpretation.

Maybe this is a good demonstration of why we shouldn't ask AI to determine biblical truth for us.

Forget AI's psychological labels. Forget “Gnosticism.” Forget “gaslighting.”

ANSWER THE SCRIPTURE.

Where did Jesus and John jointly prophesy for 1,260 days?

Where did THEY shut heaven during their prophecy?

Where did THEY turn waters to blood?

Where did THEY smite the earth with plagues?

And how was John killed by the beast AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony” (Rev. 11:7) when John had already been beheaded while Jesus was still ministering?

Those are VALID biblical questions that deserves honest biblical answers.

Calling me names through an AI doesn't answer a single one of them.

Selah!

Everything I submitted to the ai was something @Earburner said, not anything you said. I pulled a cpl of quotes from his posts not yours. In this case, I'm actually on your side, not in opposition instead. In my mind, you are winning the debate here, not @Earburner. I don't know what your beef with me is then? Especially the fact I think you are doing an outstanding job of debunking @Earburner view. The ai's critique was of @Earburner not you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jesus physically demonstrated that even in the smallest of His example, He (as well as John the baptist), pending the repentance of the human race, were the very instruments of God's Holy wrath as well as His instruments of His Holy salvation.

Earburner, I think this discussion has run its course because you are getting no closer to demonstrating your interpretation from the Truth of God's Word.

You have become so committed to your own doctrine that, instead of allowing the text to correct it, you continue introducing speculation after speculation that Scripture itself never states.

At this point, we are simply going in circles. I have repeatedly asked you to demonstrate your claims directly from Revelation 11, and you have repeatedly answered with explanations for why the text supposedly means something it never actually says.

I have presented my case from Scripture. The readers can examine the Word for themselves and decide whether these things are so. Even Davidpt found posts helpful. To the Glory to God.

I'm moving on from discussing with you.

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

I think there is an important part of Jesus’ teaching about Elijah that is being missed. Yes, Jesus said Elijah had already come, and He was speaking about John the Baptist. But that does not mean the prophecy of Elijah before the end-time Day of the LORD was completely fulfilled.

Malachi 4:5–6 says: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”...

So saying, “Elijah already came, therefore there is no Elijah prophecy concerning the end times,” does not fully explain Jesus' words or Malachi's prophecy. Malachi specifically places Elijah before the great and dreadful Day of the LORD, and Jesus Himself spoke of Elijah coming to “restore all things.”

Okay time out.

I can see the problem with some people who are reading into "great and dreadful day of the LORD" or the "day of the LORD" must automatically refers to the "end-time" Day of the LORD. That is not correct. Malachi prophesied about John the Baptist before the great and dreadful day of the LORD which has to do with the judgment of the fall of Old Testament congregation. Let review carefully:
[apokathistemi], meaning literally to be made over, or constituted again. By extension, to reestablish or restore. [apo] in composition, as a prefix, here denotes separation or reversal. Thus, to restore to a good state (reform). For example, as used in Matthew 17:

Matthew 17:11-12

• "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
• But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

Restore here is [apokathistemi]. This means Elias (John the Baptist) came to restore in the sense of his being filled with the Holy Spirit to foreshadow Christ in bringing back the old beliefs, righteousness and obedience to God's laws, which the children of God had fallen away from. Israel, as a Old Testament representative of God's Kingdom, was in a state of apostasy before the coming of John to restore, or return the hearts back to God.

Matthew 12:13

• "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."

In other words it was made right again. Hence restored [apokathistemi] means, to make sound, to correct, to put in proper order again. That's what John the Baptist did in preparing the people for the coming of Christ. Just as the prophesy foretold.

Malachi 4:5-6

• "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
• And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

Indeed, in speaking of the birth of John the Baptist, God confirms this fulfillment, unambiguously.

Luke 1:15-17

• "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
• And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
• And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Not as Elijah, but in the Spirit and power of Elijah. Which is actually the Spirit of Christ. This is the restoration of John. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Again, illustrating that the restoration of Israel is spiritual, and has nothing whatsoever to do with restoring or rebuilding the literal nation.
So exactly what is the restoration of Israel? Yes, it speaks of the people of God turning back to Him, by the power of Christ. Note that before John the Baptist, Israel (which was the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth) was in apostasy, harboring erroneous doctrines, their Kingdom expectations were worldly, and their views and conduct was hypocritical. John came with correction and was used of God as a vessel of reformation, the forebearer of the true restoring that would follow in Christ.

Luke 3:16

• "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

Christ came with the true cleansing that the water John used merely symbolized. He was the true restoration, that John's restoration was the harbinger of. Christ truly turned the hearts of the children to the fathers. He gave them a new heart in order to do so. He rebuilt the temple that has fallen (Old Testament Israel), restore it to become the New Testament congregation. THIS is the spiritual Israel, restoration does not means making physical Israel in good standing with God again. For example, it is a spiritual rebirth or remaking. Selah!
1st Corinthians 4:19-20

• "But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
• For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power."

In dunamis. That is the miraculous power of salvation of the restored Kingdom.

It is sad that so many even today do not understand the meaning of this and whine about "spiritualizing" or "Gnosticism." Just as some did not understand when Christ spoke of it.

Matthew 9:12-13

• "But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
• But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Learn that it means the healing in His wings is what restores one to good heath. Sin is equated with sickness (Spiritualizing), and thus salvation with healing of that spiritual sickness. Likewise, when John the Baptist called the people to repent, he was going forth in an effort to "restore" all things to the righteousness of former times. To make crooked things straight. To make reconciliation with God. In other words, calling to repentance the people, that they must get right with God. That is the only true restoration of the Kingdom to Israel. And it can only be in Christ. It happened at the Cross. Therefore the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord was specifically for the judgment of the Old Testament Congregation. There are another Day of the Lord specifically for the judgment of the New Testament Congregation prior to the Second Coming. So no, not all "day of the Lord" are talking about the Second Coming. You have to read the context more carefully.

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Everything I submitted to the ai was something @Earburner said, not anything you said. I pulled a cpl of quotes from his posts not yours. In this case, I'm actually on your side, not in opposition instead. In my mind, you are winning the debate here, not @Earburner. I don't know what your beef with me is then? Especially the fact I think you are doing an outstanding job of debunking @Earburner view. The ai's critique was of @Earburner not you.

Alright. My apologize.

 

[quietthinker]

The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses​

I might ask, witness to what?
There have always been two witnesses; The Son and the Spirit, Father and Son, Spirit and Father, Law and Prophets

 

[Earburner]

The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses​

I might ask, witness to what?
There have always been two witnesses; The Son and the Spirit, Father and Son, Spirit and Father, Law and Prophets

John the Baptist is the witness of who Jesus is, as God spoke through him words that were never known by any man: "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world". John 5:39

Jesus is the witness of who God the Father is, by declaring John 5
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 1:29

John the Baptist and Jesus are the two anointed ones of Zech. 4:14.

 

[Earburner]

Okay time out.

I can see the problem with some people who are reading into "great and dreadful day of the LORD" or the "day of the LORD" must automatically refers to the "end-time" Day of the LORD. That is not correct. Malachi prophesied about John the Baptist before the great and dreadful day of the LORD which has to do with the judgment of the fall of Old Testament congregation. Let review carefully:
[apokathistemi], meaning literally to be made over, or constituted again. By extension, to reestablish or restore. [apo] in composition, as a prefix, here denotes separation or reversal. Thus, to restore to a good state (reform). For example, as used in Matthew 17:

Matthew 17:11-12

• "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
• But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

Restore here is [apokathistemi]. This means Elias (John the Baptist) came to restore in the sense of his being filled with the Holy Spirit to foreshadow Christ in bringing back the old beliefs, righteousness and obedience to God's laws, which the children of God had fallen away from. Israel, as a Old Testament representative of God's Kingdom, was in a state of apostasy before the coming of John to restore, or return the hearts back to God.

Matthew 12:13

• "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."

In other words it was made right again. Hence restored [apokathistemi] means, to make sound, to correct, to put in proper order again. That's what John the Baptist did in preparing the people for the coming of Christ. Just as the prophesy foretold.

Malachi 4:5-6

• "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
• And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

Indeed, in speaking of the birth of John the Baptist, God confirms this fulfillment, unambiguously.

Luke 1:15-17

• "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
• And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
• And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Not as Elijah, but in the Spirit and power of Elijah. Which is actually the Spirit of Christ. This is the restoration of John. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Again, illustrating that the restoration of Israel is spiritual, and has nothing whatsoever to do with restoring or rebuilding the literal nation.
So exactly what is the restoration of Israel? Yes, it speaks of the people of God turning back to Him, by the power of Christ. Note that before John the Baptist, Israel (which was the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth) was in apostasy, harboring erroneous doctrines, their Kingdom expectations were worldly, and their views and conduct was hypocritical. John came with correction and was used of God as a vessel of reformation, the forebearer of the true restoring that would follow in Christ.

Luke 3:16

• "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

Christ came with the true cleansing that the water John used merely symbolized. He was the true restoration, that John's restoration was the harbinger of. Christ truly turned the hearts of the children to the fathers. He gave them a new heart in order to do so. He rebuilt the temple that has fallen (Old Testament Israel), restore it to become the New Testament congregation. THIS is the spiritual Israel, restoration does not means making physical Israel in good standing with God again. For example, it is a spiritual rebirth or remaking. Selah!
1st Corinthians 4:19-20

• "But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
• For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power."

In dunamis. That is the miraculous power of salvation of the restored Kingdom.

It is sad that so many even today do not understand the meaning of this and whine about "spiritualizing" or "Gnosticism." Just as some did not understand when Christ spoke of it.

Matthew 9:12-13

• "But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
• But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Learn that it means the healing in His wings is what restores one to good heath. Sin is equated with sickness (Spiritualizing), and thus salvation with healing of that spiritual sickness. Likewise, when John the Baptist called the people to repent, he was going forth in an effort to "restore" all things to the righteousness of former times. To make crooked things straight. To make reconciliation with God. In other words, calling to repentance the people, that they must get right with God. That is the only true restoration of the Kingdom to Israel. And it can only be in Christ. It happened at the Cross. Therefore the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord was specifically for the judgment of the Old Testament Congregation. There are another Day of the Lord specifically for the judgment of the New Testament Congregation prior to the Second Coming. So no, not all "day of the Lord" are talking about the Second Coming. You have to read the context more carefully.

Selah!

As for John the baptist, that is my point exactly!!! He indeed was one of God's two anointed ones, as prophesied of in Zech. 4:14, as well as in Malachi ch. 4:5-6.
Do you know WHY God did not come and smite the earth with a curse [Malachi 4:6], AT THAT TIME of His coming  THROUGH Jesus??
It's called REPENTANCE!! Do you remember what repentance with Jonah and the Ninevites looked like?
Yes!! God withheld His wrath, BECAUSE.....they REPENTED!!!
Q. What do you think this present age of God's Grace has been all about, these past 2026 years??
A. Repentance unto salvation through having faith in Jesus. (You can't have one without the other- John and Jesus were a Joint ministry for 1260 days).

As for the three manifestations of Christ in the world, the prophecies of the book of Zechariah is great for understanding that.
Unfortunately, many want to take that entire book and use it to describe only the far future coming of Christ, and their misconstrued understanding of what they call a future 1000 years of Christ reigning on the earth after His Glorious return from heaven.