The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[TribulationSigns]

If Christians would stop
defining and interpreting the Bible through the book of Revelation, by their human mind,
but instead
define and interpret the book of Revelation through the Bible, by the Mind of Christ, they would immediately discover the reality of fulfilled prophecy, as opposed to that which is fabricated fiction.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Look yourself in the mirror and repeat after yourself.

 

[Earburner]

(Chuckle) After all these posts, you have finally numbered your answers—and unfortunately they demonstrate exactly why I have been challenging your interpretation.

You STILL have not shown that Jesus and John the Baptist fulfilled Revelation 11:3–6.

Let's examine your answers.

1. “In Jerusalem for a total period of 1260 days. It was 6 mos. for John, 3.0 years for Jesus.”​

That does NOT answer my question.

That does NOT answer my question, and it creates an even bigger chronological problem for YOUR flawed interpretation.

Revelation 11:3 says:



It does NOT say Witness #1 prophesies for 180 days, dies, and then Witness #2 continues for another 1,080 days so that we can add their two separate ministries together and call it 1,260 days.

The text says “THEY shall prophesy” for the 1,260 days.

But now continue reading, because Revelation gives us the sequence:

Revelation 11:7



Notice the order:

1,260 days of THEIR testimony → THEY finish their testimony → the beast makes war against THEM → the beast kills THEM.

So explain how John the Baptist fits that sequence.

According to your interpretation, John completed only the first six months and was already beheaded long before your supposed combined 1,260 days were completed. Yet Revelation says the beast attacks and kills the Two Witnesses AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony.”

How could the beast kill John after the 1,260-day testimony was finished if John had already been dead long before your 1,260th day arrived?

That makes no sense.

And Scripture explicitly tells us who killed John:

Matthew 14:10



John was executed under Herod's authority while Jesus' ministry was still continuing. He was not alive at the end of your supposed combined 1,260 days waiting for the beast of Revelation 11:7 to arise and kill him. Duh!

You cannot solve that problem by adding:

John = 180 days
Jesus = 1,080 days
180 + 1,080 = 1,260

Revelation does not give us two consecutive individual ministries to add together. It describes THEIR testimony, followed by THEIR death after that testimony is finished.

And where does Scripture even state that Jesus' ministry lasted exactly 1,080 days? Chapter and verse, please.

Your arithmetic is being imposed upon Revelation rather than derived from it.

So again:

Where did Jesus AND John jointly prophesy as the Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, finish THEIR testimony, and THEN get killed by the beast as Revelation 11:3–7 describes?

Your interpretation completely breaks the sequence of the prophecy. Very deeply flawed. You made it up. Period!

Selah!

2. “The Holy Spirit of God did not ‘rain’ on anyone... only John and Jesus had the FULNESS of the Holy Spirit... God was NOT communicating through anyone else.”​

Again, where does Scripture say this?

You are asserting that nobody else on earth received communication from God during those 1,260 days.

Really?! Are you ok or something? What did the Word of God say?

What about Zacharias, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost” and prophesied? (Luke 1:67)

What about Elisabeth, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost”? (Luke 1:41)

What about Simeon, upon whom “the Holy Ghost was,” who received revelation from the Holy Ghost? (Luke 2:25–26)

What about Anna the prophetess, who “spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem”? (Luke 2:36–38)

So where did you get the doctrine that during your supposed 1,260-day period “God was NOT communicating through anyone else”?

Certainly not from those Scriptures!

And Matthew 11 does not say, “John was the LAST Prophet.” Jesus says:

“Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...”
—Matthew 11:11

Then verse 13 says:

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”

That establishes John's unique transitional position; it does not establish your claim that only Jesus and John possessed God's Spirit during a literal 1,260-day period. Crazy assumption!

3. “They didn't have to do plagues etc... people were Repenting.”​

This is probably one of the most stupid interpretation I have ever heard regarding Two Witnesses with your false assumption. Thank you! You have now answered my third question by admitting:

"They DID NOT do it."

Revelation says the Two Witnesses have authority “over waters to turn them to blood.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled that.

Your answer is essentially:

"They didn't."

Then you have not demonstrated fulfillment!

4. “See my answer #3.”​

Exactly.

Again your answer amounts to:

"They didn't do it."

Revelation says:

“...and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled this.

You answered that they didn't because people repented.

But where does Revelation 11 say:

“They would have turned the waters to blood and smitten the earth with plagues, but people repented, so these portions of the prophecy were never actually fulfilled”?

It doesn't.

You imported Jonah into Revelation 11 to explain why the fulfillment you claim happened contains events that you admit never happened.

That is precisely the problem.

And quoting Isaiah 55:8–9 does not rescue an interpretation from textual examination:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Amen! GOD'S thoughts are higher than ours.

Which is exactly why neither YOUR thoughts nor MY thoughts determine what Revelation 11 means.

God's Word does.

Appealing to “God's higher thoughts,” “hear what the Spirit says,” 1 Corinthians 2, or 1 John 2:27 cannot substitute for demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture. Otherwise anybody could defend virtually any interpretation by saying, “You don't understand because the Holy Spirit revealed something deeper to me.”

That is why Scripture gives us an objective safeguard:

“They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
—Acts 17:11

So after all these posts, here is where your answers actually leave us:

Question #1: Where did Jesus and John together prophesy for 1,260 days?

You gave two separate ministry lengths and added them together.

Question #2: Where did they shut heaven so that it did not rain during their prophecy?

You redefined the rain as nobody else receiving the Holy Spirit and made an unsupported claim that God communicated through nobody else.

Question #3: Where did they turn waters to blood?

Your answer: They didn't.

Question #4: Where did they smite the earth with plagues?

Your answer: They didn't.

That is not fulfillment of Revelation 11:3–6.

You keep saying, “I have answered!”

Yes, you have now given responses.

But giving a response and demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture are two very different things.

You still have not produced the biblical account I originally requested.

So instead of telling me once again that I don't understand Isaiah 55:8–9 or that I need to “hear what the Spirit says,” deal with what the inspired text actually says:

“THEY shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

Show us where Jesus AND John did that. You remain refuted so far with your Jesus and John nonsense!

Selah!

John and Jesus, being the only people ever, to be physically born HAVING the Holy Spirit, had the permanency of His indwelling, and NO ONE ELSE EVER DID!! No, not Enoch, Moses or even Elijah!!
All others, during those 1260 days of their Joint testimony, could only have visitations of the Holy Spirit, BECAUSE the Holy Spirit was not yet GIVEN to anyone permanently UNTIL AFTER Jesus was glorified. John 7:39.

WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying to you, a church member.

 

[Earburner]

(Chuckle) After all these posts, you have finally numbered your answers—and unfortunately they demonstrate exactly why I have been challenging your interpretation.

You STILL have not shown that Jesus and John the Baptist fulfilled Revelation 11:3–6.

Let's examine your answers.

1. “In Jerusalem for a total period of 1260 days. It was 6 mos. for John, 3.0 years for Jesus.”​

That does NOT answer my question.

That does NOT answer my question, and it creates an even bigger chronological problem for YOUR flawed interpretation.

Revelation 11:3 says:



It does NOT say Witness #1 prophesies for 180 days, dies, and then Witness #2 continues for another 1,080 days so that we can add their two separate ministries together and call it 1,260 days.

The text says “THEY shall prophesy” for the 1,260 days.

But now continue reading, because Revelation gives us the sequence:

Revelation 11:7



Notice the order:

1,260 days of THEIR testimony → THEY finish their testimony → the beast makes war against THEM → the beast kills THEM.

So explain how John the Baptist fits that sequence.

According to your interpretation, John completed only the first six months and was already beheaded long before your supposed combined 1,260 days were completed. Yet Revelation says the beast attacks and kills the Two Witnesses AFTER “they shall have finished their testimony.”

How could the beast kill John after the 1,260-day testimony was finished if John had already been dead long before your 1,260th day arrived?

That makes no sense.

And Scripture explicitly tells us who killed John:

Matthew 14:10



John was executed under Herod's authority while Jesus' ministry was still continuing. He was not alive at the end of your supposed combined 1,260 days waiting for the beast of Revelation 11:7 to arise and kill him. Duh!

You cannot solve that problem by adding:

John = 180 days
Jesus = 1,080 days
180 + 1,080 = 1,260

Revelation does not give us two consecutive individual ministries to add together. It describes THEIR testimony, followed by THEIR death after that testimony is finished.

And where does Scripture even state that Jesus' ministry lasted exactly 1,080 days? Chapter and verse, please.

Your arithmetic is being imposed upon Revelation rather than derived from it.

So again:

Where did Jesus AND John jointly prophesy as the Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, finish THEIR testimony, and THEN get killed by the beast as Revelation 11:3–7 describes?

Your interpretation completely breaks the sequence of the prophecy. Very deeply flawed. You made it up. Period!

Selah!

2. “The Holy Spirit of God did not ‘rain’ on anyone... only John and Jesus had the FULNESS of the Holy Spirit... God was NOT communicating through anyone else.”​

Again, where does Scripture say this?

You are asserting that nobody else on earth received communication from God during those 1,260 days.

Really?! Are you ok or something? What did the Word of God say?

What about Zacharias, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost” and prophesied? (Luke 1:67)

What about Elisabeth, who was “filled with the Holy Ghost”? (Luke 1:41)

What about Simeon, upon whom “the Holy Ghost was,” who received revelation from the Holy Ghost? (Luke 2:25–26)

What about Anna the prophetess, who “spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem”? (Luke 2:36–38)

So where did you get the doctrine that during your supposed 1,260-day period “God was NOT communicating through anyone else”?

Certainly not from those Scriptures!

And Matthew 11 does not say, “John was the LAST Prophet.” Jesus says:

“Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...”
—Matthew 11:11

Then verse 13 says:

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”

That establishes John's unique transitional position; it does not establish your claim that only Jesus and John possessed God's Spirit during a literal 1,260-day period. Crazy assumption!

3. “They didn't have to do plagues etc... people were Repenting.”​

This is probably one of the most stupid interpretation I have ever heard regarding Two Witnesses with your false assumption. Thank you! You have now answered my third question by admitting:

"They DID NOT do it."

Revelation says the Two Witnesses have authority “over waters to turn them to blood.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled that.

Your answer is essentially:

"They didn't."

Then you have not demonstrated fulfillment!

4. “See my answer #3.”​

Exactly.

Again your answer amounts to:

"They didn't do it."

Revelation says:

“...and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”

I asked where Jesus and John fulfilled this.

You answered that they didn't because people repented.

But where does Revelation 11 say:

“They would have turned the waters to blood and smitten the earth with plagues, but people repented, so these portions of the prophecy were never actually fulfilled”?

It doesn't.

You imported Jonah into Revelation 11 to explain why the fulfillment you claim happened contains events that you admit never happened.

That is precisely the problem.

And quoting Isaiah 55:8–9 does not rescue an interpretation from textual examination:

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Amen! GOD'S thoughts are higher than ours.

Which is exactly why neither YOUR thoughts nor MY thoughts determine what Revelation 11 means.

God's Word does.

Appealing to “God's higher thoughts,” “hear what the Spirit says,” 1 Corinthians 2, or 1 John 2:27 cannot substitute for demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture. Otherwise anybody could defend virtually any interpretation by saying, “You don't understand because the Holy Spirit revealed something deeper to me.”

That is why Scripture gives us an objective safeguard:

“They searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
—Acts 17:11

So after all these posts, here is where your answers actually leave us:

Question #1: Where did Jesus and John together prophesy for 1,260 days?

You gave two separate ministry lengths and added them together.

Question #2: Where did they shut heaven so that it did not rain during their prophecy?

You redefined the rain as nobody else receiving the Holy Spirit and made an unsupported claim that God communicated through nobody else.

Question #3: Where did they turn waters to blood?

Your answer: They didn't.

Question #4: Where did they smite the earth with plagues?

Your answer: They didn't.

That is not fulfillment of Revelation 11:3–6.

You keep saying, “I have answered!”

Yes, you have now given responses.

But giving a response and demonstrating your doctrine from Scripture are two very different things.

You still have not produced the biblical account I originally requested.

So instead of telling me once again that I don't understand Isaiah 55:8–9 or that I need to “hear what the Spirit says,” deal with what the inspired text actually says:

“THEY shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

Show us where Jesus AND John did that. You remain refuted so far with your Jesus and John nonsense!

Selah!

What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues, though both having the fulness and permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit were fully equipped to do so.
Even though Jesus cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), for an example of His authority, you still don't know why no plagues from John or Jesus were ever issued.

 

[JimKnox]

As a Born again Amillennial believer in Christ, I have always understood that God's prophetic words are mostly based upon His own Eternal Spiritual thoughts/language, and not so much that of our own human thoughts and how we understand the words of our own written languages.
Isa. 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What if, instead of reading and interpreting those scriptures in Rev. 11:1-14 literally, according to our ways of thinking, we are to interpret them spiritually by the Mind of Christ within us, so that we might know that the biblical "Great City" is not about buildings like that of man, but rather it is God's description of the people of God in which He desires to dwell?

In 1 Cor. ch. 2:9-16, Paul explains quite clearly that the spiritual value of our understanding is to be revealed to us by "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", thus allowing the Mind of Christ's Holy Spirit within us to interpret God's spiritual truths to us, and not that which is preached to us by the ways of "the wisdom of men".

In Rev. 11:8 we are specifically shown that "the great city" is to be understood in the spiritual truth of what it is being "COMPARED WITH". In that example, we are to understand that the Great City is compared to that of Egypt (symbolized as slavery/captivity) and that of Sodom (symbolized as sin). Putting the two together, we can conclude that in the comparison by example, God has been working to deliver His people from their CAPTIVITY of SIN.

Since the first manifestation of Jesus, that is the "spiritual" message to all of us, through faith in Jesus' sacrificial death.
For the past 2,026 years, in each "Year of our Lord", God has been "patient" and "longsuffering" in His "Promise" and attempt to  DELIVER each of us from the "CAPTIVITY" of "SIN", "not willing that any should perish".
However, if by faith in Jesus, we do not receive the Free Gift of God's Deliverence by His Gift of Salvation, our names will not be found written in the book of Life and therefore there is NO escape from the second death.

Has anyone here dared to believe that those who God prophesied of in Zech. 4:14, as being "His two anointed ones", are in fact that of John the Baptist and Jesus?

Could it be that Rev. 11:1-14 is nothing more than an allegorical story of spiritual truth, telling us all that the literal manifestation of John the Baptist and Jesus, were indeed God's promised ones, being they who are described as the "two anointed ones", and therefore the prophecy of "the two witnesses", has already been fulfilled?

Uuummmmm...

Nope!

 

[Davidpt]

What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues, though both having the fulness and permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit were fully equipped to do so.
Even though Jesus cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-14), for an example of His authority, you still don't know why no plagues from John or Jesus were ever issued.

Though I haven't posted in this thread, at least I don't think I have, I have been reading your posts and others posts in rebuttal of yours.

I then submitted a cpl of your posts to a an AI and that I mentioned the irony of your username.. Here's what the AI concluded.

-This AI:

These responses are a masterclass in spiritual gaslighting and deflection.
When you corner him with the plain words of the text, he doesn't actually answer your question. Instead, he shifts the blame onto you for reading it according to what it says, claims to have a secret "Mind of Christ" that you lack, and introduces entirely new, unrelated arguments to distract from his original contradiction.

Here is a breakdown of his tactics, exposing how they perfectly mirror the "deceptive" behaviors warned about in 2 Timothy 4:3-4:

1. The "Secret Knowledge" Trap (Gnosticism)
• What he says: He claims you are using your "human mind," but he is interpreting via the "Mind of Christ," telling you to "WAKE UP, and hear what the Spirit is saying to you."

• The Reality: This is a classic elitist tactic. He cannot defend his argument with the actual text, so he claims he has a special, spiritual insight that makes the plain words mean the exact opposite of what they say. If a text says "they issued plagues," and his "Mind of Christ" says "no they didn't," he isn't listening to the Spirit—he is listening to his own imagination.

2. The Logic Fallacy: "Revelation Doesn't Define Revelation"

• What he says: He claims Christians shouldn't interpret the Bible through Revelation, but rather interpret Revelation through the rest of the Bible.

• The Reality: While it is true that Scripture interprets Scripture, you cannot use one part of the Bible to flatly erase the details of another. If Revelation 11 details specific actions of the Two Witnesses (plagues, 3.5 days dead in the street, ascending in a cloud), you cannot use a verse from John to say those events never happened. He is using the rest of the Bible as an eraser to wipe out details he can't explain.

3. Factual Errors Fabricated as Truth

• What he says: He claims John and Jesus were the only people to ever be physically born having the Holy Spirit, and that their ministry lasted exactly "1260 days of their Joint testimony."

• The Reality: He is inventing timelines to fit his theory. John the Baptist and Jesus did not have a "joint testimony" of 1260 days (three and a half years). John's ministry was largely completed and he was imprisoned early in Jesus's ministry. Furthermore, Jesus's own ministry is traditionally estimated at around three years, but they were absolutely not operating as a dual prophetic pair walking the earth together for 1,260 days striking anyone with plagues.
4. Shifting the Burden of Proof

• What he says: "What is truly sad here is that you really do not know why John and Jesus DIDN'T issue any plagues..."

• The Reality: This is a classic debate trick. Instead of admitting his theory fails because Jesus and John didn't issue plagues, he tries to turn it into a mystery or a spiritual test that you failed. He uses the cursing of the fig tree as a distraction. The bottom line remains: The Two Witnesses in Revelation 11 DO issue plagues. If Jesus and John didn't, then Jesus and John are not the Two Witnesses.

The Ultimate "Earburner" Profile
This user is a textbook example of what you correctly identified from 2 Timothy. He is using his username "earburner" to deliver what he thinks are "fiery, awake truths" to "sleepy church members." In reality, he is delivering the exact kind of confusing, unbiblical myths that Paul warned would cause people to turn away from sound doctrine.

He isn't looking for a mutual study of the text; he is looking to feel intellectually and spiritually superior to others on the forum.