Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

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Truth7t7

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Why would you compare 2 Peter 3:10-13 and Revelation 21:1-5 to the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24?

Do you not understand that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and it is a HARVEST?

Do you not understand the difference between a harvest and destruction?

Here is another view of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Revelation 14:14-16 is (The Last Day) end of this world harvest (The End)

(The Harvest Is The End Of The World, And The Reapers Are The Angels)

Matthew 13:36-39KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

(The Harvest Is The End Of The World, And The Reapers Are The Angels)

Matthew 24:31KJV
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

ewq1938

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Why would you bother to quote this?

Why would you compare temptation of sin to the Great Tribulation?

Always flawed logic.


The flawed logic is using the modern English understanding of escaping something VS the biblical version which means to escape something by being able to bear it. There is no physical escape from the tribulation for the Church.
 

The Light

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Revelation 14:14-16 is (The Last Day) end of this world harvest (The End)

(The Harvest Is The End Of The World, And The Reapers Are The Angels)

Matthew 13:36-39KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

(The Harvest Is The End Of The World, And The Reapers Are The Angels)

Matthew 24:31KJV
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The end of age occurs at the 6th seal.

Jesus returns and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The Church is gathered from heaven, and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and are in heaven during the one year wrath of God.

At the end of one year the armies of heaven follow Jesus to Armageddon on the Day of the Lord.

Rev 14 is the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. Believers are taken to heaven as believers are not appointed to wrath. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
 

The Light

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The flawed logic is using the modern English understanding of escaping something VS the biblical version which means to escape something by being able to bear it. There is no physical escape from the tribulation for the Church.
Revelation 5 proves this statement is incorrect.
 

PinSeeker

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Words are very important, for sure... we all would agree on that. To that, I would just say this, that words like 'escape,' and 'destruction'/'destroyed,' and others, can be validly understood in very different ways, very different ~ even opposite ~ senses. <smile> But if they are different/opposite, it is impossible for them both to be the correct sense at the same time.

For example, let's take the word 'escape'... One can escape something in the sense of not being subjected to it, of not having it inflicted upon himself/herself... so, figuratively speaking, "above it all" ~ and therefore not having to literally be above it or taken somewhere else to avoid it but, even while in the midst of it, enduring through it... and so, in the Bible, being delivered by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit through tribulation, as in Psalm 23: "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you are with me... you prepare a table for me..." And this is the case regarding the tribulations in this world... and even the time of great tribulation at the close of this present age.

And this brings up another reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally important ~ Biblical ~ distinction. The tribulation (trials) that we endure is not (are not) the same as God's wrath.

In tribulation, for us Christians, God disciplines us ~ He disciplines those He loves (Hebrews 10), and through them makes us more mature in Christ (James 1), and because of this, we can count it all joy, and run with endurance the race set before us, keeping our eyes on Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12). Which is very hard for us to do, but, even so, very possible.

Regarding God's wrath, yes, we Christians, those of us in Christ, will not be subject to God's wrath, either now or in the hereafter. His wrath will only be a reality in eternity and will not be inflicted in any way upon the earth or its inhabitants (anyone) now or in the yet future New Heaven and New Earth or its inhabitants (Christians only) then, but in eternity only upon unbelievers in this place of outer darkness, of weeping and gnashing of teeth that they depart to as a result of being on the wrong side... Jesus's left (Matthew 7:21-23, 8:12, 22:13, 25:30)... of this final Judgment. They will be "destroyed" in the sense of complete and utter loss of hope of redemption, of utter despair, of complete ruination... under God's judgment for all of eternity. <shudder> This is the second death of Revelation 20.

Grace and peace to all.
 

Truth7t7

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The end of age occurs at the 6th seal.

Jesus returns and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The Church is gathered from heaven, and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and are in heaven during the one year wrath of God.

At the end of one year the armies of heaven follow Jesus to Armageddon on the Day of the Lord.

Rev 14 is the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. Believers are taken to heaven as believers are not appointed to wrath. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
I Strongly Disagree With Your Eschatlogy

Jesus Returns In Fire And Final Judgement (The End)
 

ewq1938

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I'm not sure why you don't see that Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest prior to the wrath of God.


Because he doesn't. You fail to identify when something is a description of future events/prophecy VS events happening right then. Jesus opens all the seals without going anywhere. The seals open the scroll to provide knowledge of the future. They were most likely opened when Jesus ascended which is why at first no one was found worthy to open them, because Jesus wasn't in heaven yet and when he was, he is described as a slain Lamb not a resurrected human which is his normal appearance. This is a clue as to when the appearance of Jesus took place in that chp and when the seals were opened.

Jesus returns at the 7th trump for a harvest prior to the wrath of God, not at the opening of any seal.
 

PinSeeker

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I'm not sure why you don't see that Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest prior to the wrath of God.
We never "see" the wrath of God in Revelation, we only approach it in any of the seven concurrent cycles of John's Revelation.

For that matter, we don't "see" Christ's return until Revelation 19, which is the sixth cycle, and then again in Revelation 20, which is the seventh. And we don't "see" the final judgment until the seventh (Revelation 20:11-15), and we don't "see" the inauguration of the New Heaven and New Earth until after this final Judgment, in this seventh cycle, which concludes with Revelation 21:1-8. Until then, the first five cycles only approach, or lead up to, these things.

Upon the execution of the final judgment by Christ after His return, the unrepentant will depart from here at His command and enter into this eternal punishment in this place Jesus describes as "outer darkness," where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The banishment of Adam and Eve (and all of humanity, as Adam is the head of the human race) from Eden is a picture of this; the unrepentant will not enter into the New Heaven and New Earth, but go... to that other place... for eternity. <shudder> This is the only place where God's wrath will ever be seen/experienced. Again, this is the "second death" of Revelation 20... and the manner in which they are utterly destroyed... having suffered complete ruination. <shudder> One more time... God's wrath is exacted upon the unrepentant in eternity in the form of the "second death" of Revelation 20... they are "immersed" in this judgment forever; His grace forever removed from them; this is the "lake of fire" of Revelation 20.

Grace and peace to all.
 

Truth7t7

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Jesus returns and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The Church is gathered from heaven, and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and are in heaven during the one year wrath of God.

At the end of one year the armies of heaven follow Jesus to Armageddon on the Day of the Lord.
You falsely have two future comings of Jesus Christ to this earth, 100% "Wrong"!

Your claims are 100% "False", Jesus returns once in the future in fire and destruction, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Your False Belief In Two Future Comings Of Jesus Christ To Earth Below


1.) 1st in harvesting heaven and earth's saved believers, then a marriage supper in heaven for 1 year

2.) 2nd in returning after this one year session in heaven to the earthly battle of Armageddon

Jesus will appear a 2nd time in the future not a 2nd and 3rd time as you falsely believe and teach, why do you disregard the simple truth below?

Hebrews 9:28KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus will be revealed in "Fire" at his return, destroying "All" the unsaved world, why do you disregard the simple truth below?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed
.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 
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Davidpt

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Jesus will appear a 2nd time in the future not a 2nd and 3rd time as you falsely believe and teach, why do you disregard the simple truth below?

Hebrews 9:28KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Unless Pretribbers take that to mean the Pretrib rapture, their view contradicts that verse if they take it to mean His coming after great tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 4 clearly involves a coming. It plainly says so in verse 15----the coming of the Lord.

And Christ already came once. Between those two things that adds up to 2 comings already, thus agrees with Hebrews 9:28. But if Pretribbers do not take Hebrews 9:28 to be involving the Pretrib rapture, Pretribbers then need Hebrews 9:28 to say---and unto them that look for him shall he appear the third time without sin unto salvation, in order for them to be correct. Of course though, they couldn't care less. In their mind, they are right, the Bible is wrong.
 
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Luther7

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Unless Pretribbers take that to mean the Pretrib rapture, their view contradicts that verse if they take it to mean His coming after great tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 4 clearly involves a coming. It plainly says so in verse 15----the coming of the Lord.

And Christ already came once. Between those two things that adds up to 2 comings already, thus agrees with Hebrews 9:28. But if Pretribbers do not take Hebrews 9:28 to be involving the Pretrib rapture, Pretribbers then need Hebrews 9:28 to say---and unto them that look for him shall he appear the third time without sin unto salvation, in order for them to be correct. Of course though, they couldn't care less. In their mind, they are right, the Bible is wrong.
Well said. Throughout church history, it was understood that the next time we see Jesus is the second time unto a new heaven and earth.
We are actually living in a time of great deception in the churches in which the the talmudic influence of those who control the world order have brainwashed millions of professing Christians into thinking that their fate is the same as the Jews. What do I mean by that?

Judaism teaches that there will be a future millennial reign of the Jews (on this sin cursed earth) in which they will have complete governance of every non-jew. But while the Christians believe that Christ will be ruling this kingdom ( with all the jews turning to him) they literally believe their messiah (moshiach) to be the opposite of Christ. That's what the rabbis teach. That's what their talmud teaches.

But in order for all these things to come to pass, they needed support, not only financially but theologically from an unsuspecting crowd.... Christians. We have to keep in mind that God sees all of this and He gave His Word to us as a sword with two edges, One edge shining with the truth of interpretation and the other not.

Approximately 150 years ago talmudic influences crept into our church with different interpretations of Genesis 12:3 and Revelation 20 specifically. A whole new theology was created and now in our day it's like the Christian church is completely immersed in it.
In other words, a Christian Zionist ( a Christian who supports the actions of Israel without question) is a crypto jew who forsakes the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ and His New covenant because they are indoctrinated to revive the old covenant for the sake of glorifying those who call themselves jews but are not and created a nation state in 1948.

They needed to pervert scripture to give Christians the " call of duty" to defend whatever they do because they have to succeed in whatever they're doing in order for Christ to come, as a divine decree from God. Even if it's complete genocide of the Middle East. (I do not know where you stand on this issue, but IT IS the reason why there is so much objection to the second and final coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.)
In other words, if the literal interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ was debunked, Israel would lose 80-90% of its support very easily. So it seems to me that it is going to be very difficult to persuade these people otherwise, unless God wants them to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
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Scott Downey

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Unless Pretribbers take that to mean the Pretrib rapture, their view contradicts that verse if they take it to mean His coming after great tribulation. 1 Thessalonians 4 clearly involves a coming. It plainly says so in verse 15----the coming of the Lord.

And Christ already came once. Between those two things that adds up to 2 comings already, thus agrees with Hebrews 9:28. But if Pretribbers do not take Hebrews 9:28 to be involving the Pretrib rapture, Pretribbers then need Hebrews 9:28 to say---and unto them that look for him shall he appear the third time without sin unto salvation, in order for them to be correct. Of course though, they couldn't care less. In their mind, they are right, the Bible is wrong.
This second coming, Christ destroys the wicked, the unbelieving, antichrist and Satan.

All the accounts are the same when Jesus teaches on the sudden destruction as like the time of Noah and Lot and Paul teaches the same things; as does Peter in where we look for new heavens and a new earth after He comes a second time for our salvation and the judgment of this world.
Christ points us to those false christs and false prophets who arise to show great signs and wonders to deceive.
Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;

22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Paul


2 Thess 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if from us that the Day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

5 Remember ye not that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming—

9 even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 and with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,

12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Thess 5
But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they are saying, “Peace and safety,” then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light and the children of the day; we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober.

7 For those who sleep, sleep in the night; and those who are drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Peter

2 Peter 3

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you, in both of which I stir up your purity of mind by way of remembrance,

2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,

3 knowing this first: that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”


5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,

12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Therefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless.
 
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Davidpt

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This second coming, Christ destroys the wicked, the unbelieving, antichrist and Satan.

All the accounts are the same when Jesus teaches on the sudden destruction as like the time of Noah and Lot and Paul teaches the same things; as does Peter in where we look for new heavens and a new earth after He comes a second time for our salvation and the judgment of this world.
Christ points us to those false christs and false prophets who arise to show great signs and wonders to deceive.
Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;

22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Paul


2 Thess 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if from us that the Day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

5 Remember ye not that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming—

9 even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 and with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,

12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Thess 5
But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they are saying, “Peace and safety,” then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light and the children of the day; we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober.

7 For those who sleep, sleep in the night; and those who are drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Peter

2 Peter 3

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you, in both of which I stir up your purity of mind by way of remembrance,

2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,

3 knowing this first: that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”


5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,

12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Therefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless.

Where does any text state that satan too is destroyed during the 2nd coming? Revelation 19, for example, pertains to the 2nd coming and that there is not one mention of satan in that entire chapter. It does not say in Revelation 19 that satan was also cast into the LOF at that time when the beast and false prophet are. IOW, we have to go by what the text says, not what it doesn't say.
 
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Davidpt

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Well said. Throughout church history, it was understood that the next time we see Jesus is the second time unto a new heaven and earth.
We are actually living in a time of great deception in the churches in which the the talmudic influence of those who control the world order have brainwashed millions of professing Christians into thinking that their fate is the same as the Jews. What do I mean by that?

Judaism teaches that there will be a future millennial reign of the Jews (on this sin cursed earth) in which they will have complete governance of every non-jew. But while the Christians believe that Christ will be ruling this kingdom ( with all the jews turning to him) they literally believe their messiah (moshiach) to be the opposite of Christ. That's what the rabbis teach. That's what their talmud teaches.

But in order for all these things to come to pass, they needed support, not only financially but theologically from an unsuspecting crowd.... Christians. We have to keep in mind that God sees all of this and He gave His Word to us as a sword with two edges, One edge shining with the truth of interpretation and the other not.

Approximately 150 years ago talmudic influences crept into our church with different interpretations of Genesis 12:3 and Revelation 20 specifically. A whole new theology was created and now in our day it's like the Christian church is completely immersed in it.
In other words, a Christian Zionist ( a Christian who supports the actions of Israel without question) is a crypto jew who forsakes the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ and His New covenant because they are indoctrinated to revive the old covenant for the sake of glorifying those who call themselves jews but are not and created a nation state in 1948.

They needed to pervert scripture to give Christians the " call of duty" to defend whatever they do because they have to succeed in whatever they're doing in order for Christ to come, as a divine decree from God. Even if it's complete genocide of the Middle East. (I do not know where you stand on this issue, but IT IS the reason why there is so much objection to the second and final coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.)
In other words, if the literal interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ was debunked, Israel would lose 80-90% of its support very easily. So it seems to me that it is going to be very difficult to persuade these people otherwise, unless God wants them to come to the knowledge of the truth.

While there may be Premils who hold views like that, not all Premils hold views like that. Therefore, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater based on how some Premils, but not all Premils, view some of these things.
 

The Light

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Because he doesn't. You fail to identify when something is a description of future events/prophecy VS events happening right then. Jesus opens all the seals without going anywhere. The seals open the scroll to provide knowledge of the future. They were most likely opened when Jesus ascended which is why at first no one was found worthy to open them, because Jesus wasn't in heaven yet and when he was, he is described as a slain Lamb not a resurrected human which is his normal appearance. This is a clue as to when the appearance of Jesus took place in that chp and when the seals were opened.

Jesus returns at the 7th trump for a harvest prior to the wrath of God, not at the opening of any seal.
The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal whether you believe it or not. That is what is written.
 

The Light

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We never "see" the wrath of God in Revelation, we only approach it in any of the seven concurrent cycles of John's Revelation.

For that matter, we don't "see" Christ's return until Revelation 19, which is the sixth cycle, and then again in Revelation 20, which is the seventh. And we don't "see" the final judgment until the seventh (Revelation 20:11-15), and we don't "see" the inauguration of the New Heaven and New Earth until after this final Judgment, in this seventh cycle, which concludes with Revelation 21:1-8. Until then, the first five cycles only approach, or lead up to, these things.

Upon the execution of the final judgment by Christ after His return, the unrepentant will depart from here at His command and enter into this eternal punishment in this place Jesus describes as "outer darkness," where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The banishment of Adam and Eve (and all of humanity, as Adam is the head of the human race) from Eden is a picture of this; the unrepentant will not enter into the New Heaven and New Earth, but go... to that other place... for eternity. <shudder> This is the only place where God's wrath will ever be seen/experienced. Again, this is the "second death" of Revelation 20... and the manner in which they are utterly destroyed... having suffered complete ruination. <shudder> One more time... God's wrath is exacted upon the unrepentant in eternity in the form of the "second death" of Revelation 20... they are "immersed" in this judgment forever; His grace forever removed from them; this is the "lake of fire" of Revelation 20.

Grace and peace to all.
I think you are missing the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal when He sends His angels for a harvest. The righteous go to heaven for the marriage supper and unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God. Here is another view of the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
 

The Light

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You falsely have two future comings of Jesus Christ to this earth, 100% "Wrong"!

Your claims are 100% "False", Jesus returns once in the future in fire and destruction, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Your False Belief In Two Future Comings Of Jesus Christ To Earth Below


1.) 1st in harvesting heaven and earth's saved believers, then a marriage supper in heaven for 1 year

2.) 2nd in returning after this one year session in heaven to the earthly battle of Armageddon

Jesus will appear a 2nd time in the future not a 2nd and 3rd time as you falsely believe and teach, why do you disregard the simple truth below?

Hebrews 9:28KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus will be revealed in "Fire" at his return, destroying "All" the unsaved world, why do you disregard the simple truth below?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed
.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
You don't understand what you are reading Truth.