Young rich ruler not saved, why ?

[Episkopos]

And how about all the verses others bring that you ignore and run away from because they clearly refute certain parts of your theology.

Unlike the many verses I post that never do get answered....because they haven't a clue how they apply today...I always correct the understanding of the half dozen verses or so that people have been indoctrinated into the false delusional gospel on.

Like the VERY badly translated 2 Cor 5:21. A lala land translation that has so many spoiled rich Westerners eager for judgment day. Can you say weeping and gnashing of teeth? Will these be warned? No, too spoiled. And besides their judgment is already set. Free will aside pride is just too strong in so many...they will not hear correction...so they will die.

And the very badly translated word aphesis...that actually means FREEDOM not forgiveness. Or the very poor reading of the word "imputed" to mean the very opposite of the actual english word....so much so that the dictionaries had to amend the definition to include the religious bent version.

I have refuted these errors many times...but I never get any honest reply to what I post.

 

[ProDeo]

It's a test I bring to bear. I can tell how strong the ego is by giving both a message for the inner man and a message for the outer man. I do this because I learned it from the Lord. So if all you remember are the hard things then your outer man is stronger. If you can look beyond the message to the outer man and respond from the inner man, then you are active in your inner man. If you can smile through the message to the outer man and only respond to the message to the inner man....then you are blessed...and your outer man is out of the way. Once I see that the antics of the carnal outer man have ceased...then it's all blessing. :)

Both my inner and outer man confirm the vague word ego is not in Scripture.

Scripture is not vague, but very detailed.

2Tim 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Tim 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Tim 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Tim 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

I counted 19 (nice prime number) character features related to ego.

How many of the 19 do you recognize by yourself ?

 

[ProDeo]

An interesting viewpoint. Have you considered applying it to your particular situation?

Yes, I have.

I speak with mainly novices here. My teachings are wasted on spoiled flesh. But others are also observing...and you never know when someone might want their religious certainties challenged.

You might misjudge those you spank, what if those novices as you call them are beloved children of the Lord ?

Reckless you.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I have.



You might misjudge those you spank, what if those novices as you call them are beloved children of the Lord ?

Reckless you.

I'm not doing what others are doing here. You are not seeing what I'm doing. I'm trying to save souls from rejection into outer darkness.

In a similar way to street preacher trying to save souls from the lake of fire, but for believers.

People have misunderstood the purpose of regeneration, to the point where they are unable to hear the words of Jesus, or any sound teaching. It's been prophesied in the bible....and it's going to happen....but a street evangelist doesn't give up because many will be cast into the lake of fire. And I don't give up just because most are unable to hear the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Both my inner and outer man confirm the vague word ego is not in Scripture.

Scripture is not vague, but very detailed.

2Tim 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Tim 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Tim 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Tim 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

I counted 19 (nice prime number) character features related to ego.

How many of the 19 do you recognize by yourself ?

Normally I would avoid a number of people here....but this is a public forum. So then one would expect that the truth would he opposed most heartily. Just read down the list. Have you thought about how many apply to you?

Lovers of self are spotted by their ego being sensitive. So I don't need to re-iterate how I go about looking for people with an active inner man. Pay more attention and you will see what is going on....even in yourself.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

.....If we condemn the rich young ruler we are condemning ourselves.

Everyone who relates to God through a covenant of law keeping is condemned when they do not keep that law. Every truly born again Christian knows this. That's why they are born again. They realized they can't get to God through law keeping and cast themselves on his mercy.

It is only through being forgiven by God through faith in Jesus' sacrifice that we can be reconciled to God and live for him. The covenant of Jesus' blood is the only covenant through which a person can be reconciled to God. That doesn't mean you don't have to keep what remains of God's law to keep. It means your eternal relationship with God is not established that way. Law keeping does not solicit the righteousness of the Holy Spirit. Faith in God's forgiveness in Christ does.

How many of us have done an Acts 2? Selling all we have to have all things in common in order to share out our goods equally among the brethren?

It's too easy to judge others hypocritically.

According to you, Jesus' command to the rich young ruler was an individual calling. Assuming that's true, it's okay to condemn him if he did not obey Jesus' command. Just as we would be condemned if we had that individual calling and didn't fulfill it.

If Jesus says that to inherit eternal life, we need to obey the commandments...then why contradict Him.

Because no one can obey the commandments so as to inherit eternal life. That's the old covenant way to life. It doesn't work because of the failure of man to keep it. It has been replaced by the New Covenant in which eternal life is obtained by being cleansed and forgiven and made righteous by faith in the forgiveness of God he has provided in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. God knows this. He knows what he's doing. This plan was established from eternity past.

 

[ProDeo]

Wisdom can also get choked out by false doctrine. I remember him saying this.

Jesus did NOT come to forgive sins but that through Him we might be overcomers as He is. The cross is about holiness not forgiveness

Oh...

John 1:29 The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

He knew.

Who told John the Baptist that?

Interesting isn't it.

Jesus said John the Baptist was the promised Elijah, but John the Baptist said he was not, see v21.

Did John the Baptist heard that in heaven being Elijah ????

Just guessing.

Redemption and the forgiveness of sins are tied to Christ's sacrifice and blood shed on the cross. (Romans 3:24-26; Colossians 1:20) To discard that foundational truth is not wise.

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Amen Dan.

 

[ProDeo]

I'm not doing what others are doing here. You are not seeing what I'm doing. I'm trying to save souls from rejection into outer darkness.

I know, you have said so many times. And I don't question your intention.

But I also don't believe the Lord has given you cart blanche to condemn and insult everyone who disagrees with you.

In a similar way to street preacher trying to save souls from the lake of fire, but for believers.

People have misunderstood the purpose of regeneration, to the point where they are unable to hear the words of Jesus, or any sound teaching. It's been prophesied in the bible....and it's going to happen....but a street evangelist doesn't give up because many will be cast into the lake of fire. And I don't give up just because most are unable to hear the truth.

I know you won't give up, but IMHO you are playing with fire.

Be well.

 

[Episkopos]

I know, you have said so many times. And I don't question your intention.

But I also don't believe the Lord has given you cart blanche to condemn and insult everyone who disagrees with you.

I don't think you are quite paying attention to how people are responding to my efforts. Many times you are also denigrating my efforts.

I know you won't give up, but IMHO you are playing with fire.

Be well.

And what pray tell do you think they are doing that are attacking me and calling me things that are quite unseemly? You are very interestingly not seeing any problem with this.

 

[bdavidc]

My attitude? That's rich. I know you hate the truth as it applies to your foundation which is your ego. But this is counterproductive because your attitude is one that God rejects. I just point that out. If you want to shoot the messenger...fine. But you will be the one paying for your indifference to God's ways and judgments.

@Episkopos, you did not answer Lizbeth. You cursed her standing before God, and the bible does not give you that seat.

She spoke about the rich young ruler and what Jesus required of him. You left the text and said she hates the truth, that her foundation is her ego, that God rejects her attitude, and that she will pay for indifference to God's ways and judgments. That is not correction. ~Proverbs 18:13 says He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. You did not hear the matter. You judged a heart you cannot see, and ~1 Samuel 16:7 says man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. ~James 4:12 says there is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another. You are not that lawgiver.

This is the same pattern you have kept under correction. Scripture is brought, and you do not receive it. You turn and charge the one who brings it. ~Titus 3:10-11 says a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. ~2 Timothy 4:3-4 says the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. ~2 Timothy 2:24-25 says the servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves. You strove. You were not gentle. You did not instruct. You threatened.

Paul did not pet another gospel. ~Galatians 1:8-9 says though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. ~Acts 13:10 says O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord. Another way of being justified is another gospel, and the curse in that passage is written. Attacking the person who names it does not remove it. ~Matthew 12:36-37 says every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment: for by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. These words are on the record. And you have already been proven to be a false teacher.

Answer the rich young ruler from the passage. ~Mark 10:21 says Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest. He told him the truth. You did neither. Stop claiming you are pointing out God's ways while you refuse the words already written.

 

[bdavidc]

You just give them fodder when you discuss with them. When they realize they’ve been caught and don’t look perfect in something, they adjust so they can say “no one has caught me cheating!”

You are just proving you are MostlyConfused. But I think you are fully confused.

 

[sondring7]

It is all GOD's word regardless. Isn't that what matters? It doesn't have to be written in a letter by one specific person. It is believers who are being warned, that is very clear, not those who "never really knew the Lord in the first place". And as I told someone else, I'm not getting into a debate about OSAS here.

In that case you will be able to EASILY "" list where Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required for you to forfeit your entry into Heaven ?""
Verses please :)

 

[bdavidc]

You are a product of a mass religious delusion based on the mob. This thread is about Jesus loving a young man who was curious about what it takes to inherit eternal life. The religious contagion of the mob wants to condemn the young man because he didn't want to lose his life as he knew it.

But make no mistake, people are condemning themselves by condemning the rich young ruler. That's the lesson behind the lesson. But people are not that wise...instead they follow a religious ideology that seeks to silence and denigrate those who are speaking the truth. That's why you hate my presence. But I know you from other forums where you had the same subversive effect. Basically a religious ideologue who hates the truth.
So do your twisting and accuse me of what you are doing. You may fool the novices and ego seekers here. And they may even be in the majority, as they are in all the reaches of Babylon.

Where does the passage say that recognizing the rich young ruler’s refusal to follow Jesus means we are condemning ourselves? You call that “the lesson behind the lesson,” but Jesus never states that lesson. You need to establish it from the text rather than accuse everyone who questions it of hating truth.

Yes, Jesus loved the young man. But that same verse says, “One thing thou lackest,” and ends with, “come, take up the cross, and follow me” (Mark 10:21). The next verse says, “And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions” (Mark 10:22). Jesus’ love did not mean the man lacked nothing or that his refusal to follow was acceptable. Loving someone and exposing what keeps him from following Christ are entirely consistent.

Jesus then said, “How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23). When the disciples asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus answered, “With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible” (Mark 10:26–27). The context concerns entering God’s kingdom and being saved. You cannot separate those questions from the encounter because they interfere with your interpretation.

We should not claim to know the young man’s ultimate fate, because Scripture does not tell us what happened to him afterward. But we can plainly say that, in this encounter, he walked away instead of following Jesus. That is recognizing what Scripture records. If someone today makes the same choice, the same warning applies to him too.

Calling people deluded, subversive, or enemies of truth does not answer their biblical objections. You accuse others of twisting Scripture, but here you introduce a lesson Jesus did not state and make accusations about people’s motives without establishing them. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21) applies to your teaching too. Show us where your claim is written.


People know not to listen to your false teachings:

What Is Episkopos Really Teaching? Read His Own Words

A Serious Warning About Episkopos and His Teaching I believe it is time to give a serious warning about Episkopos and what he is teaching on this forum. I am not writing this because I dislike the man, and I am not calling every disagreement between Christians false teaching. Christians can...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Lizbeth]

In that case you will be able to EASILY "" list where Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required for you to forfeit your entry into Heaven ?""
Verses please :)

Why do you insist on only hearing from Paul? Are you one of those who believe Paul preached his own separate gospel?

 

[sondring7]

Why do you insist on only hearing from Paul? Are you one of those who believe Paul preached his own separate gospel?

If Paul taught the EXACT SAME Gospel then it will be VERY EASY for you to :-
"" list where Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required for you to forfeit your entry into Heaven ?""
Verses please :)

 

[Lizbeth]

If Paul taught the EXACT SAME Gospel then it will be VERY EASY for you to :-
"" list where Jesus VIA Paul taught what is required for you to forfeit your entry into Heaven ?""
Verses please :)

You didn't answer my question.

I'll post these verses anyhow, though I will not come back to this topic to debate you here.

Romans 11:17-22

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.



1Co 6:7-10

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.



Eph 5:3-7

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Be not ye therefore partakers with them.



Gal 6:7

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

 

[sondring7]

You didn't answer my question.

I'll post these verses anyhow, though I will not come back to this topic to debate you here.

Romans 11:17-22

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.



1Co 6:7-10

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.



Eph 5:3-7

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Be not ye therefore partakers with them.



Gal 6:7

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Are you implying Paul is adding 'performance' as a condition to enter Heaven ?
Let's see :-
Titus 3.5-7 NOPE
Gal 2.16......NOPE
Rom 3.28...NOPE
Eph 2.8-9...NOPE
Rom 4.5......NOPE
Rom 5.1......NOPE

Looks like you need to study Paul :)

 

[ProDeo]

I don't think you are quite paying attention to how people are responding to my efforts. Many times you are also denigrating my efforts.

And what pray tell do you think they are doing that are attacking me and calling me things that are quite unseemly? You are very interestingly not seeing any problem with this.

You are not without points here. Recently I started to pray before reading the forum, for wisdom and truth. And it made me wonder what was said (the language use) when Barnabas and Paul split, when Paul corrected Peter it was actually the first church schism. Did they corrected each other as we used to do here?

Anyway, I moved in when I saw you condemning @Judge Hardcastle out of the blue, without any good reason.

Peace ?

 

[Episkopos]

You are not without points here. Recently I started to pray before reading the forum, for wisdom and truth. And it made me wonder what was said (the language use) when Barnabas and Paul split, when Paul corrected Peter it was actually the first church schism. Did they corrected each other as we used to do here?

Anyway, I moved in when I saw you condemning @Judge Hardcastle out of the blue, without any good reason.

Peace ?

How are people to know the difference between a stubbornly held "theological" position based on the teachings of men and a testimony of the truth?

All we have is the bible and an honest appreciation of the text. What I call out is when there is NOT an honest seeking going on. ....basically a conceding of points or at least an admission that the person is just not interested in being challenged.

If I didn't defend myself at times I would just be lambasted by every indoctrinated ideologue.

So its not that people believe different things...its the dishonesty with which they come on the attack ....the lack of any sense, context, or understanding, notwithstanding.

Some people won't be helped.....but they also try to stop others from being helped....that's when I intervene.

 

[Lizbeth]

You should stick to delivering mail. My teaching is only for disciples and seekers of deeper understanding...training for saints. You are stuck on the same level as bdavidc in thinking you have your ticket to heaven/valhalla.

If you wanted to challenge me on any one point you would be far wiser. But the fact is you don't know what to do with ANY of the many dozens of verses I post from both testaments. Those verses were never included in your indoctrination so you write them off, dishonestly, like any JW would who you take outside their indoctrination.

My teaching is exactly precise and includes every verse in the bible...in its balance...showing a divine framework to build an understanding of eternal things. I have helped many up to now. The fact that you are beyond that kind of help is sad but to be expected. Many are called but few are chosen. Stay with the crowd.

The "boldness" and pride of someone who hasn't been "chosen" for 25 years is quite startling to see. Someone who doesn't even meet the standard of a "lower walk" in how they talk to people here is not in a position to be lording over and berating others for not doing what they themself aren't doing.