Contradiction or wrongly dividing ? !!!

[Wick Stick]

Give me chapter and verse (without commentary) for what that says.
Remember. No commentary! Just chapter and verse.

This is a mishmash...

"AFTER the Tribulation is Christ Coming/Resurrection FOLLOWED by the Rapture is for those who believe and receive His words."

After what tribulation?

So God is going to rapture us after the tribulation?

Who, then, will be left on earth at that point to be saved from the ended tribulation? Unbelievers????

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[GeneZ]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

That plainly speaks of when the Tribulation ends.




The Church will have been Raptured before the Tribulation took place.
While in Heaven with the Lord for the seven years of the Tribulation we are to be preparing to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Matthew 4:29 is pointing to the return of Christ after the Tribulation ended, returning to earth to reign while seated on David's throne.
Matthew 4:29 described when the Tribulation just ended and the Millennium begins!

The Rapture is not Jesus Christ returning to earth.

For we shall meet in the clouds and be taken to Heaven.
No coming earth for the Rapture!

Matthew 24:29​

​

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​

That says the Tribulation days are over.
That is when Jesus will return to earth with power and great glory.

 

[Wick Stick]

That plainly speaks of when the Tribulation ends.

I agree. It also plainly speaks of Jesus returning at that time... yes?

The Church will have been Raptured before the Tribulation took place.
While in Heaven with the Lord for the seven years of the Tribulation we are to be preparing to reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Matthew 4:29 is pointing to the return of Christ after the Tribulation ended, returning to earth to reign while seated on David's throne.
Matthew 4:29 described when the Tribulation just ended and the Millennium begins!

The Rapture is not Jesus Christ returning to earth.

For we shall meet in the clouds and be taken to Heaven.
No coming earth for the Rapture!

Matthew 24:29​

​

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​

That says the Tribulation days are over.
That is when Jesus will return to earth with power and great glory.

Same chapter, but a few verses later:

Mathew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So then isn't this describing the same event from 10 verses earlier?

 

[GeneZ]

Same chapter, but a few verses later:

Mathew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So then isn't this describing the same event from 10 verses earlier?

The Millennium will begin with only believers on the earth.
Just like after Noah's flood.

Matthew 24:39 is about God removing all unbelievers from earth to beckon in the Millennium with only believers on earth.

 

[Wick Stick]

The Millennium will begin with only believers on the earth.
Just like after Noah's flood.

Matthew 24:39 is about God removing all unbelievers from earth to beckon in the Millennium with only believers on earth.

The verses, though. "One shall be taken, and the other left" doesn't describe a rapture?

So then, let me see if I have this right... Matthew 24 doesn't say anything about a rapture, then?

 

[GeneZ]

I agree. It also plainly speaks of Jesus returning at that time... yes?

Same chapter, but a few verses later:

Mathew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So then isn't this describing the same event from 10 verses earlier?

Keep in mind...

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ​

38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying ​

and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew ​

nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. ​

That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.​

In Noah's day all unbelievers were removed.
It was not the rapture.
For all unbelievers will be removed from the earth before the Millennium begins.

 

[GeneZ]

The verses, though. "One shall be taken, and the other left" doesn't describe a rapture?

So then, let me see if I have this right... Matthew 24 doesn't say anything about a rapture, then?

A different type of rapture.

This time, for all unbelievers taken off the earth before the Lord takes up his Throne in Jerusalem..

 

[TLHKAJ]

Christianity endorses everything that's in the Noahide covenant

Actually, no, it does not. The Noahide laws are not the same thing as the 10 Commandments handed by God to Moses. According to Noahide laws, you are committing blasphemy and idolatry if you worship Jesus Christ. If you call Him the Son of God, you are to be beheaded. Will you reject Jesus to honor the Noahide laws?

 

[David in NJ]

Modern Noahide Movement​

In recent decades, a modern Noahide movement has emerged, primarily led by Orthodox Jewish rabbis. This movement aims to educate and encourage non-Jews to observe the Seven Laws, fostering a global community of Noahides who live by these principles without converting to Judaism.


What does the Noahide covenant entail for the believer that Christianity does not already cover and supersede?
Might as well go back under the law again. That covenant had come to its end.

To participate does not validate. It's only to imitate and perform a reenactment of what once was.

Good Morning,

Great post!

The Law of GOD is MESSIAH

MESSIAH is the 7th DAY of REST = no laws can supersede HIM who told Noah to build the ark

 

[Wick Stick]

According to Noahide laws, you are committing blasphemy and idolatry if you worship Jesus Christ.

False. That sounds like some bad Jewish midrash. I don't know how one would get that out of Genesis 8-9.

 

[TLHKAJ]

False. That sounds like some bad Jewish midrash. I don't know how one would get that out of Genesis 8-9.

What in the world are you talking about? The Noahide laws are not in the Bible.

 

[Episkopos]

We ALL agree that Christ taught ALL of His apostles.
That being the case why did Christ (Matt) teach saved requires performance but not in Paul ?
..
Matt 25 :- LIFE ETERNAL requires 'PERFORMANCE'
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
..
Is Christ CONTRADICTING Himself with Paul ???
..
Titus 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5:, Rom 5:1
..
Or is it that the teachings in Matthew apply to a different age/audience than Paul is selected to teach !!!
.

To rightly divide the word of God we need to see a distinction between holiness and righteousness. The passages that are just about grace and gifting are about holiness. And the passages about doing good works to be saved are about righteousness. Holiness is about the Bride of Christ and the holy city. Righteousness is about the nations of them that are saved and involves the guests at the wedding feast.

 

[GeneZ]

Good Morning,

Great post!

The Law of GOD is MESSIAH

MESSIAH is the 7th DAY of REST = no laws can supersede HIM who told Noah to build the ark

Great ... that is. If you want Orthodox Jewish rabbis leading your life. Wanting to convert you to the thinking of Judaism.

Be my guest.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

​

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; ​

hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, ​

and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness ​

and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified ​

the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. ​

​

Galatians 5:18-25​

The reason we are not to be under law?

If we are led of the Spirit?
You will not need the Law to tell you what not to do.
You just won't want to do them!!!!!!!!!


Grace and peace ....

 

[Wick Stick]

What in the world are you talking about? The Noahide laws are not in the Bible.

They're based on Genesis...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, [which is] the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

and re-affirmed in Acts...

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

 

[David in NJ]

Great ... that is. If you want Orthodox Jewish rabbis leading your life. Wanting to convert you to the thinking of Judaism.

Be my guest.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

​

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; ​

hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, ​

and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness ​

and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified ​

the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. ​

​

Galatians 5:18-25​

The reason we are not to be under law?

If we are led of the Spirit?
You will not need the Law to tell you what not to do.
You just won't want to do them!!!!!!!!!


Grace and peace ....

Another great post and 100% Pure Truth, thus why i said:

MESSIAH is the 7th DAY of REST
No laws can supersede the LJC = the same One who told Noah to build the ark

Speaking of orthodox Jewish rabbis

Lift UP Asher, the Jewish rabbi who comes to our house weekly, with whom my Jewish wife and i share the Torah & OT prophets that speak of the Lord Yeshua HaMashiach.
And my father-in-law Lee.

Thank You

 

[TLHKAJ]

They're based on Genesis...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, [which is] the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

and re-affirmed in Acts...

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

You can find biblical support for those laws but according to the Talmud, if you worship Jesus Christ, you are committing blasphemy and idolatry, and are worthy of death by decapitation.

 

[Wick Stick]

You can find biblical support for those laws but according to the Talmud, if you worship Jesus Christ, you are committing blasphemy and idolatry, and are worthy of death by decapitation.

The Talmud, right... remember when I said "some bad Jewish Midrash?" Kinda nailed it.

The Noahide laws belong to us. Don't let the Pharisees put claim on them. They apply least to the Pharisees.

 

[TLHKAJ]

The Talmud, right... remember when I said "some bad Jewish Midrash?" Kinda nailed it.

The Noahide laws belong to us. Don't let the Pharisees put claim on them. They apply least to the Pharisees.

Will you be vowing your worship to the false messiah in order to adhere to the Noahide laws?

 

[Wick Stick]

Will you be vowing your worship to the false messiah in order to adhere to the Noahide laws?

Where do you see that in the Noahide laws?

1. no idols
2. don't curse God
3. don't murder
4. don't steal
5. no sexual immorality
6. establish judges
7. don't consume blood or meat with blood in it

 

[TLHKAJ]

The 7 Noahide Laws

1. Idolatry is forbidden, - The Jews do consider Christians as being idolators and hence, the 1st law is broken in their eyes. They say that God gave them to NOAH, and they are found in the Talmud, not the Torah. Since many Christians do worship Jesus as God. There is a whole lot more to this, it's not as clear cut as some folks believe. Satan is very, very good at what he does. "a little leven..."

2. Blasphemy is forbidden,

3. Murder is forbidden,

4. Theft is forbidden,

5. Sexual immorality is forbidden,

6. Eating the flesh of living animals is forbidden.

7. Justice laws must be established.

The Berean Call

Revelation 20:4
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”