What If the False Teacher Sounds Like a Man of God?

[ScottA]

No. That is not how biblical teaching works.

You quoted the scripture, stated what you thought and were trying to use it for and against--and your use and understanding were and are wrong. Your understanding is NOT "biblical teaching."

I am not going to keep repeatedly explaining, when you keep denying what the scriptures say.

 

[ScottA]

You keep accusing me of not understanding Scripture and now say I am under a foretold delusion. That is a serious accusation, so prove it from Scripture.

Pick one specific statement I have made that is false. Quote what I said, then show the Scripture, in context, that proves it wrong. Do not just tell me I lack understanding. Show me from the Word of God.

If you claim I am under “delusion,” then show exactly what biblical passage applies to me and demonstrate from what I have actually said how it applies. Otherwise, you are making an accusation without establishing it.

So yes, let’s take it one point at a time. Show me from Scripture where I am wrong.


Don't forget we can take a look at your false book anytime to see how it holds up to the actual Bible:

>>>>>> Are you willing to have your book examined against Scripture, claim by claim? I am willing to purchase a copy and review what you actually wrote, quoting you accurately and examining the biblical passages in context. Where your teaching agrees with Scripture, I will acknowledge it. Where it contradicts Scripture, I will identify the error plainly. Will you answer those objections from the biblical text?

No, like I just said replying to your last post--where I gave you "one specific statement" that is wrong--as long as you keep denying what the specific scripture says.

Don't forget, since you are wrong on even one little scripture--you are not qualified to judge anyone.

 

[bdavidc]

You quoted the scripture, stated what you thought and were trying to use it for and against--and your use and understanding were and are wrong. Your understanding is NOT "biblical teaching."

I am not going to keep repeatedly explaining, when you keep denying what the scriptures say.

Then prove it from Scripture. Your claim that I am wrong means nothing by itself. Quote the passage, show what I said, and demonstrate from the text where I contradicted God’s Word.

If you cannot do that, you have not refuted me. You have only repeated your opinion.

 

[bdavidc]

No, like I just said replying to your last post--where I gave you "one specific statement" that is wrong--as long as you keep denying what the specific scripture says.

Don't forget, since you are wrong on even one little scripture--you are not qualified to judge anyone.

No, I am not judging you by my own authority. The Word of God is doing the judging. I have repeatedly pointed you back to Scripture, and instead of showing from Scripture where I am wrong, you keep insisting that your interpretation is correct.

Jesus said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him” (John 12:48).

So the issue is not whether I am “qualified to judge.” The issue is whether what you are teaching agrees with the written Word of God. If you say I am wrong, prove it from Scripture instead of continuing to dismiss what Scripture says.

 

[Episkopos]

No, I am not judging you by my own authority. The Word of God is doing the judging. I have repeatedly pointed you back to Scripture, and instead of showing from Scripture where I am wrong, you keep insisting that your interpretation is correct.

Jesus said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him” (John 12:48).

So the issue is not whether I am “qualified to judge.” The issue is whether what you are teaching agrees with the written Word of God. If you say I am wrong, prove it from Scripture instead of continuing to dismiss what Scripture says.

I have already proved it in spades....you are just running as one who doesn't know he has already been revealed.

You told me you are qualified to judge because you have seen nothing. And then you posted a verse about those who claim to speak for God ...the false prophets...but have seen nothing...just like you. Not only did you post a verse concerning you...you even agreed that you have seen nothing. So any argument you have is a carnal one. You refuse to be subject to the scriptures even as you confirm you are a false teacher....from your own verse selection.

And then you try forcing others into your charade.

 

[ScottA]

Then prove it from Scripture. Your claim that I am wrong means nothing by itself. Quote the passage, show what I said, and demonstrate from the text where I contradicted God’s Word.

If you cannot do that, you have not refuted me. You have only repeated your opinion.

You proved yourself wrong, by giving a verse, then speaking against what it says.

1 John 4:1​

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.​

The verse you quoted was 1 John 4:1. It is speaking to the reader "Beloved", telling them to "test" the spirits. But you turned that around and said that the one who's spirit you are testing is required to "prove" themself. That's not what it says, or even who it is addressing.

I said, I don't need to prove anything. I also said, if you are assuming to test with your own understanding, then the test is not a test of who and what you are testing any more than a test of your own knowledge or lack of knowledge.

I also gave the reason for that: that each person must choose what they believe is true, which either aligns their own position with what is true or against what is true--which is not about those who we come against, but about ourselves making our own assessment--which is by God's design. Because that is really why we're here--because He is dividing the light from the darkness.

 

[ScottA]

No, I am not judging you by my own authority. The Word of God is doing the judging. I have repeatedly pointed you back to Scripture, and instead of showing from Scripture where I am wrong, you keep insisting that your interpretation is correct.

Jesus said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him” (John 12:48).

So the issue is not whether I am “qualified to judge.” The issue is whether what you are teaching agrees with the written Word of God. If you say I am wrong, prove it from Scripture instead of continuing to dismiss what Scripture says.

The words of scripture judge--but not necessarily your understanding of them.

I am not saying the scriptures are wrong--I am saying you are--and you have proven it by twisting the words and turning them around and claiming them to mean something completely different. Therefore, you disqualify yourself.

 

[Davy]

If you are born again and Spirit filled then anything that is false or fake will sound warning bells. There are scriptures that talk of discernment:

IF... the believer listens to The Holy Spirit unctions.

I don't know anyone (myself include) that is perfect in that.

And there does exist those brethren who believe certain spirit manifestations are of The Holy Spirit when they are not. So there's that problem also, and it is especially bad among the Lakeland revival crowd that grew in the 1990's through Rodney Howard Brown.

 

[Davy]

Saying “you cannot see it” is not an argument.

Oh yes it is, and it is center to Lord Jesus' point, because when He answered His disciples' question of why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and then said the ears (spiritual ears) of His disciples were blessed, for it was given to them to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, BUT... to the multitudes IT WAS NOT GIVEN, that proves my point about you, that it is not given... for you to understand about the 'new wine' and 'old bottles' metaphors.

There are 'some'... brethren, too many really, that constantly go around in circles in understanding God's Word because God has not given them to understand. Some of those simply just create their own doctrines based on their fleshy thinking, and let it go at that, never really coming to the full strength of the 'new wine'. And I believe one of the reasons God won't give it to them (i.e., the "strong meat" beyond the simple principles of The Gospel), is because they put their trust more in men than in Him per His written Word. Pomp, status, recognition, worldly honors, is more important to those types of brethren.

I doubt also that you have been given to understand what Jesus quoted from Isaiah 54 about "Blessed are the barren..." when speaking to Jewish women weeping for Him on the way to be crucified (Luke 23). That involves a metaphor where Jesus gave analogies to true worship waiting on Him vs. false worship to another.

 

[bdavidc]

I have already proved it in spades....you are just running as one who doesn't know he has already been revealed.

You told me you are qualified to judge because you have seen nothing. And then you posted a verse about those who claim to speak for God ...the false prophets...but have seen nothing...just like you. Not only did you post a verse concerning you...you even agreed that you have seen nothing. So any argument you have is a carnal one. You refuse to be subject to the scriptures even as you confirm you are a false teacher....from your own verse selection.

And then you try forcing others into your charade.

You are proving my point by twisting the very Scripture you claim proves yours.

Ezekiel 13 is not condemning people because they have not received visions. It is condemning false prophets who claimed that God had shown them something when He had not.

“Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!” (Ezekiel 13:3).

Keep reading:

“They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them” (Ezekiel 13:6).

That is the issue. They claimed revelation from God that God had never given them. The passage does not say a Christian must “see” something spiritually before he can test doctrine. Scripture says exactly the opposite: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

So no, admitting that I have received no private visions does not make me a false teacher. Claiming spiritual insight and then demanding that people accept it without establishing it from Scripture is much closer to what Ezekiel was actually condemning.

You keep telling me I am “carnal,” “revealed,” and a false teacher, but those accusations are not biblical proof. If my teaching contradicts Scripture, quote the Scripture and show the contradiction. Otherwise you are still avoiding the issue.

 

[bdavidc]

You proved yourself wrong, by giving a verse, then speaking against what it says.

1 John 4:1​

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.​

The verse you quoted was 1 John 4:1. It is speaking to the reader "Beloved", telling them to "test" the spirits. But you turned that around and said that the one who's spirit you are testing is required to "prove" themself. That's not what it says, or even who it is addressing.

I said, I don't need to prove anything. I also said, if you are assuming to test with your own understanding, then the test is not a test of who and what you are testing any more than a test of your own knowledge or lack of knowledge.

I also gave the reason for that: that each person must choose what they believe is true, which either aligns their own position with what is true or against what is true--which is not about those who we come against, but about ourselves making our own assessment--which is by God's design. Because that is really why we're here--because He is dividing the light from the darkness.

You are reading something into my words that I did not say. Yes, 1 John 4:1 tells the believer to “test the spirits.” That is exactly what I am doing. But how do you suppose Scripture tells us to test teaching? By accepting someone's claims without requiring biblical support?

The Bereans were commended because “they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). They did not simply decide for themselves what they wanted to believe. They compared what Paul taught with Scripture.

And your statement that “each person must choose what they believe is true” is not the biblical standard. Truth is not determined by our choice. Jesus said, “thy word is truth” (John 17:17).

If you teach something and I ask where Scripture teaches it, “I don't need to prove anything” is not an answer. Scripture says an overseer is to hold fast “the faithful word” so that he may “by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers” (Titus 1:9).

So I am doing exactly what Scripture says to do: testing what you teach against God's Word. If what you are teaching is true, showing it from Scripture should not be a problem.

 

[bdavidc]

The words of scripture judge--but not necessarily your understanding of them.

I am not saying the scriptures are wrong--I am saying you are--and you have proven it by twisting the words and turning them around and claiming them to mean something completely different. Therefore, you disqualify yourself.

No, there is a big difference here. I am not asking you to accept my personal understanding of Scripture. I am pointing you to what Scripture actually says, and you keep ignoring it.

If I twist a passage, then show me from the text where I twisted it. Quote what I said, quote the Scripture, and show the contradiction. Simply saying “your understanding is wrong” proves nothing.

Jesus said, “the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). The authority is in His Word, not in my interpretation and not in yours.

So the question remains very simple: does what you are teaching agree with the written Word of God? If it does, show it from Scripture. If you cannot, then accusing me of being “disqualified” is just another way of avoiding the Scriptures I have already put before you.

 

[bdavidc]

Oh yes it is, and it is center to Lord Jesus' point, because when He answered His disciples' question of why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and then said the ears (spiritual ears) of His disciples were blessed, for it was given to them to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, BUT... to the multitudes IT WAS NOT GIVEN, that proves my point about you, that it is not given... for you to understand about the 'new wine' and 'old bottles' metaphors.

There are 'some'... brethren, too many really, that constantly go around in circles in understanding God's Word because God has not given them to understand. Some of those simply just create their own doctrines based on their fleshy thinking, and let it go at that, never really coming to the full strength of the 'new wine'. And I believe one of the reasons God won't give it to them (i.e., the "strong meat" beyond the simple principles of The Gospel), is because they put their trust more in men than in Him per His written Word. Pomp, status, recognition, worldly honors, is more important to those types of brethren.

I doubt also that you have been given to understand what Jesus quoted from Isaiah 54 about "Blessed are the barren..." when speaking to Jewish women weeping for Him on the way to be crucified (Luke 23). That involves a metaphor where Jesus gave analogies to true worship waiting on Him vs. false worship to another.

No, saying “you cannot see it” still is not an argument. It is an assertion. Yes, Jesus said that it was given to His disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom, while others heard in parables. But that does not give anyone permission to invent a meaning for a passage and then answer every objection with, “God just has not given you eyes to see it.”

When Jesus explained His parables, He actually gave the meaning. He did not tell the disciples to accept somebody's private interpretation because that person claimed deeper spiritual sight.

So if your interpretation of the new wine and old bottles is correct, then show it from the passage. Show where Jesus says the new wine means what you claim it means, and where the old bottles mean what you claim they mean. That is how Scripture is handled.

The same applies to Luke 23. You say Jesus' words about “the barren” are really an analogy about true worship versus false worship. Then establish that from the text. Do not simply tell me I have not been “given to understand” it.

Scripture says, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). It does not say, “Accept my interpretation because I claim to see something you cannot.”

If your interpretation is biblical, Scripture will support it. If the only defense is that anyone who disagrees lacks spiritual sight, then you have made your own spiritual perception the authority instead of the Word of God.

 

[ScottA]

You are reading something into my words that I did not say.

No--I quoted you--and it is all here on record.

 

[ScottA]

But how do you suppose Scripture tells us to test teaching? By accepting someone's claims without requiring biblical support?

The Bereans were commended because “they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). They did not simply decide for themselves what they wanted to believe. They compared what Paul taught with Scripture.

And your statement that “each person must choose what they believe is true” is not the biblical standard. Truth is not determined by our choice. Jesus said, “thy word is truth” (John 17:17).

If you teach something and I ask where Scripture teaches it, “I don't need to prove anything” is not an answer. Scripture says an overseer is to hold fast “the faithful word” so that he may “by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers” (Titus 1:9).

So I am doing exactly what Scripture says to do: testing what you teach against God's Word. If what you are teaching is true, showing it from Scripture should not be a problem.

What you are describing is not the biblical "test." That is just study and research. Which you have taken as a license to go out accusing followers of Christ with, not unlike Satan.

As I said, you have made your test, a test of you, of your own position before God. I also explained further.

In any case, best case scenario, you are challenging others causing your own beliefs to be revealed in the "no stone left upon another" measure of God before the Judgment.

 

[ScottA]

No, there is a big difference here. I am not asking you to accept my personal understanding of Scripture. I am pointing you to what Scripture actually says, and you keep ignoring it.

If I twist a passage, then show me from the text where I twisted it. Quote what I said, quote the Scripture, and show the contradiction. Simply saying “your understanding is wrong” proves nothing.

Jesus said, “the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). The authority is in His Word, not in my interpretation and not in yours.

So the question remains very simple: does what you are teaching agree with the written Word of God? If it does, show it from Scripture. If you cannot, then accusing me of being “disqualified” is just another way of avoiding the Scriptures I have already put before you.

I showed where and how you twisted scripture already, and you simply went on to twist it all the more.

But yes, I ignore your accusations, not allowing Satan in the would-be discussion.

 

[bdavidc]

No--I quoted you--and it is all here on record.

Yes, you quoted me. But the same record shows that I explicitly acknowledged my responsibility to test your teaching. I never said 1 John 4:1 commands the speaker to prove himself instead of commanding the listener to test the spirits. Asking you to establish your teaching from Scripture is part of examining it, not a refusal to examine it.

You are right about who the verse addresses. That does not make your teaching exempt from biblical examination or make my request for biblical support a contradiction of the verse. The Bereans “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). That is what I am seeking to do. If you say my request reverses John’s command, show how. Quoting the request does not establish the contradiction.

 

[bdavidc]

What you are describing is not the biblical "test." That is just study and research. Which you have taken as a license to go out accusing followers of Christ with, not unlike Satan.

As I said, you have made your test, a test of you, of your own position before God. I also explained further.

In any case, best case scenario, you are challenging others causing your own beliefs to be revealed in the "no stone left upon another" measure of God before the Judgment.

Calling the biblical testing of doctrine “not unlike Satan” does not make your teaching true. It only shows how far you are willing to go to avoid having your claims tested by Scripture.

God explicitly commands believers to test what they are taught:

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

The Bereans did exactly that when they “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). Scripture calls them noble for doing it. You are now trying to portray the very thing God commends as something resembling Satan. That accusation is completely backwards.

And your “no stone left upon another” warning does not rescue your argument. Jesus said that concerning the temple: “There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down” (Matthew 24:2). You are taking Christ’s words out of their context and turning them into some personal spiritual judgment against me.

You keep pronouncing judgments about my standing before God while refusing to show from Scripture where the doctrine I challenged is actually taught. That is the issue you keep avoiding.

Scripture says, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).

So stop hiding behind accusations, warnings, and private interpretations. If what you are teaching is from God, show it from the written Word. If you cannot, then you have no biblical authority to demand that anyone accept it.

God’s Word is the judge here, not you and not me.

 

[bdavidc]

I showed where and how you twisted scripture already, and you simply went on to twist it all the more.

But yes, I ignore your accusations, not allowing Satan in the would-be discussion.

Enough with the accusations and spiritual intimidation. You claim you have shown where I twisted Scripture, yet when challenged to identify the specific passage and explain the error, you retreat into accusations about Satan. Accusing someone of doing Satan's work because they demand biblical evidence for your teaching is a serious matter.

Jesus warned, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). And Paul commanded, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). You do not get to dismiss those commands simply because someone is examining your teaching.

You say you are keeping Satan out of the discussion. Then explain why you are using accusations instead of Scripture. The apostle Paul did not tell believers to accept his words without examination. The Bereans searched the Scriptures to determine whether what he taught was true (Acts 17:11). Yet you repeatedly portray that same examination as something evil.

Your accusations are not biblical evidence. Your claims of spiritual superiority are not biblical authority. And your refusal to answer a scriptural challenge does not make your doctrine true.

Paul wrote, “For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth” (2 Corinthians 13:8). If your teaching is true, Scripture will support it. If it contradicts Scripture, your accusations will never make it true.

And consider your own conduct in light of James 3:1: “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” Those who presume to teach God's Word carry a serious responsibility.

Stop accusing me of serving Satan for testing your doctrine. Stop presenting your personal judgments as though they came from God. Either demonstrate from Scripture exactly where I have twisted God's Word, or stop claiming you have proved something you have not demonstrated.

God's Word does not answer to your interpretations. Your interpretations must answer to God's Word.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, you quoted me. But the same record shows that I explicitly acknowledged my responsibility to test your teaching. I never said 1 John 4:1 commands the speaker to prove himself instead of commanding the listener to test the spirits. Asking you to establish your teaching from Scripture is part of examining it, not a refusal to examine it.

You are right about who the verse addresses. That does not make your teaching exempt from biblical examination or make my request for biblical support a contradiction of the verse. The Bereans “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). That is what I am seeking to do. If you say my request reverses John’s command, show how. Quoting the request does not establish the contradiction.

You twisted it. Oh, and yes, I have established my teaching and claims with scripture plenty, just not when your request were not requests but demands as part of your accusations. You got what you deserved, with grace you didn't deserve.