What God Says About the False Pre-trib Rapture

[WHO ME]

You are partially correct, because when the coming "great tribulation" starts, each soul is going to be holding on to what they believe going into it, and during it. The pre-trib rapture doctors try to claim there will be 'tribulation saints', those who will convert to Jesus 'during'... the "great tribulation", and they point those mostly being unbelieving Jews going in. But God's Word shows they will continue in unbelief all the way up to Christ's future return, and when they see Him coming in the clouds, they will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them because of their shame of having rejected Jesus as Messiah (See Zechariah 12; Luke 23 about "Blessed are the barren...")

Per Amos 8, God revealed in the latter days He would send a famine in the land, not for bread or water, but for hearing The Word of God, looking everywhere for it and not finding it. That has an effect upon people today, as He has closed off the spiritual ears of many just for the end of this world.

So I said on major things everyones mind is set on this site and I havent seen anyone change anyone elses mind...have you?

So if you type a 1000 words and no one changes their beliefs your 1000 words are in vain...... I dont think partially is correct in what Ive seen.... has nothing to do with any verses you gave but with results on this or any site for that matter.... who have you changed from osas to not being osas or not being osas to osas?

Pre trib rapture to another rapture or another rapture to pre trib anyone?

Everyone always likes to try and correct others is why Ive replied since what I said is fully correct it gets tiresome.... like on page 149 I believe of flat earth vs round I asked if between page 1 and page 149 has anyone changed anyones mind which I doubted so all in vain....

 

[rebuilder 454]

2 thess 2:1 the gathering together or rapture is discussed here..
2:2 tells us 2 things must happen before Jesus comes
2:3 those who believe Jesus comes before the falling away and the man of sin shows up (pre trip rapture) are decieved

For the most part those who are decieved will be those who fall away
As they will lose faith that Jesus isnt coming.... they will be faced with tribulation and not be ready mentally physically or spiritually....

Daniel 12:1 shows us that the book of life is opened just as the armies gather in the valley of decision.... you have them gather for war and the rapture happens some to everlasting life (saved) some to everlasting shame(unsaved)

Rev 14:15-16 shows us the thief Jesus coming to rapture his bride.

Rev 14:14-20 shows the gathering together (rapture) saved (15-16) unsaved (17-19) and result of war (20)

1.armies gather for war (dan 11:44-45)
2. Rapture happens (dan 12:1-2 and rev 14:14-16)
3.results of war (rev 14:19-20)


The man of sin comes before Jesus.... only believers can fall away (apostasia - strongs 646 sames as 647 something separative like a divorce)
Those who fall will fall like in a divorce and nonbelievers are never married to Christ.

Amen to all that.
I also adhere to the pretrib rapture Jesus taught.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So I said on major things everyones mind is set on this site and I havent seen anyone change anyone elses mind...have you?

So if you type a 1000 words and no one changes their beliefs your 1000 words are in vain...... I dont think partially is correct in what Ive seen.... has nothing to do with any verses you gave but with results on this or any site for that matter.... who have you changed from osas to not being osas or not being osas to osas?

Pre trib rapture to another rapture or another rapture to pre trib anyone?

Everyone always likes to try and correct others is why Ive replied since what I said is fully correct it gets tiresome.... like on page 149 I believe of flat earth vs round I asked if between page 1 and page 149 has anyone changed anyones mind which I doubted so all in vain....

I am only a reporter.
If I get someone to agree with the bible i am glad.
If they decide to go against it, as i force some to do, it is on display to those that are deceived, as well as those that know their Bibles.

 

[Davy]

So I said on major things everyones mind is set on this site and I havent seen anyone change anyone elses mind...have you?

Well, yes I have. I have seen 'some' here slowly realize that God's written Word contains a lot more than they thought, or have been told, and they showed an understanding in those Scriptures. Thus today we still are in a time when some are ordained to hear with ears to hear, and have eyes to see, and The Word as written must still go out to them, even though it may mean few. All we can do is plant seeds; it's God Who makes them grow, so it's up to Him through His Son Jesus Christ whose eyes are opened and why.

 

[Davy]

....

Pre trib rapture to another rapture or another rapture to pre trib anyone?

Everyone always likes to try and correct others is why Ive replied since what I said is fully correct it gets tiresome.... like on page 149 I believe of flat earth vs round I asked if between page 1 and page 149 has anyone changed anyones mind which I doubted so all in vain....

Something else I remembered. Jim Baker of the PTL Club spent time in prison for financial fraud issues. The main doctrine he taught about Christ's coming was pre-trib rapture theory.

But while in prison, he said he had more time to actually study His Bible, and came to the conclusion that Christ's future coming will be a Post-trib coming. And now Jim Baker is a spokesman for the Post-trib gathering of Christ's Church.

So people can, and do change. And usually it is because of getting sincere with keeping what God's Word as written says, instead of following men's pop doctrines.

Lord Jesus showed that you don't put the 'new wine' into old bottles, lest they break. Instead, you put the 'new wine' into new bottles so both are preserved. He was referring to wine skins, as that is what they used in that day. The new wine has to have room for expansion, and only a new wine skin will allow enough stretch to handle it.

Now Lord Jesus used that analogy about men's traditions with those who have been subjected to for many years. The old bottles (or old wine skins) represent men's traditions having taken over the minds of those in Church set in their ways. Their spiritual ears and spiritual eyes are hardened over the years, as they are tired of hearing (like Jesus showed in Matthew 13). Thus they represent the 'old bottles' that cannot handle the 'new wine', which must have room for expansion.

But those brethren who are like new bottles (or new wine skins), they are more prepared to accept the 'new wine', because they haven't been subjected over many years to men's doctrines.

That is how it is in Christ's Church. Those who have been raised in a pre-trib rapture Church all their lives, and even their parent's lives, and grandparent's lives, are going to have a much more difficult time accepting the 'new wine" full strength written in God's Word. And I'm not speaking of the basic principles in Christ, like The Gospel, etc. I'm speaking about getting off the 'milk' of God's Word and instead coming to the "strong meat" of God's Word. Many brethren simply are still sucking on metaphorical milk bottles involving God's Word.

 

[The Light]

Something else I remembered. Jim Baker of the PTL Club spent time in prison for financial fraud issues. The main doctrine he taught about Christ's coming was pre-trib rapture theory.

But while in prison, he said he had more time to actually study His Bible, and came to the conclusion that Christ's future coming will be a Post-trib coming. And now Jim Baker is a spokesman for the Post-trib gathering of Christ's Church.

Jim needs another trip to prison so he can study some more.

There are two raptures, one before the great tribulation and one before the wrath of God for the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. Two raptures, two folds, the fig tree has two harvests. Days of Noah and Days of Lot. One coming the Lord Himself comes and one coming He sends His angels. One coming at the trump of God or voice of God and one coming at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That is how it is in Christ's Church. Those who have been raised in a pre-trib rapture Church all their lives, and even their parent's lives, and grandparent's lives, are going to have a much more difficult time accepting the 'new wine" full strength written in God's Word. And I'm not speaking of the basic principles in Christ, like The Gospel, etc. I'm speaking about getting off the 'milk' of God's Word and instead coming to the "strong meat" of God's Word. Many brethren simply are still sucking on metaphorical milk bottles involving God's Word.

I studied and determined that Jesus comes at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation and before God's wrath, making me PRE WRATH.

Then I studied some more and realized that the fig tree has two harvests. Then I realized that the Lord is coming in an hour that we think not and realized He comes for the Church before the great tribulation as we can escape all these things that will come to pass and He will keep us from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world.

Then I realized that it is the Jews that are raptured at the 6th seal prior to the wrath of God as believers are not appointed to wrath.

So I am two raptures, one before the great tribulation for the Church and one before the wrath of God immediately after the great tribulation for the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, Israel and there are 144,000 first fruits of this harvest.

 

[Davidpt]

Where was Noah before the flood ?
Where was Lot before Sodom burned?
Where was the Baby Jesus before herods slaughter?
Who is taken first In the virgin parable?

In the Noah analogy as the water was rising, the ark took off and floated away while people were evacuating and seeking high ground. So Noah was taken first, like God chose in his pattern of gathering his people first.

Noah, lot, the baby Jesus, the wise virgins, ALL GATHERED FIRST.

But who is left behind?
THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.

You really think Gods word is wrong?

Wow, I don't really think many brethren realize how serious a deception the false post-trib rapture doctrine is.

I assume Matthew 24:39 is relevant here.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Obviously, what is recorded in this verse has to fit somewhere within verses 1-31 in this same chapter.

The only place I can see it logically fitting is within verses 29-31. When we get to verse 29, great tribulation involving verses 15-26 are entirely in the past at that point. It even plainly says so in verse 29. Therefore, when verse 39 is meaning, it is meaning after great tribulation, not prior to great tribulation nor during it. IMO, it is absurd to think verse 39 can logically fit somewhere prior to verse 29 instead. Which is apparently your position.

 

[WHO ME]

Something else I remembered. Jim Baker of the PTL Club spent time in prison for financial fraud issues. The main doctrine he taught about Christ's coming was pre-trib rapture theory.

But while in prison, he said he had more time to actually study His Bible, and came to the conclusion that Christ's future coming will be a Post-trib coming. And now Jim Baker is a spokesman for the Post-trib gathering of Christ's Church.

So people can, and do change. And usually it is because of getting sincere with keeping what God's Word as written says, instead of following men's pop doctrines.

Lord Jesus showed that you don't put the 'new wine' into old bottles, lest they break. Instead, you put the 'new wine' into new bottles so both are preserved. He was referring to wine skins, as that is what they used in that day. The new wine has to have room for expansion, and only a new wine skin will allow enough stretch to handle it.

Now Lord Jesus used that analogy about men's traditions with those who have been subjected to for many years. The old bottles (or old wine skins) represent men's traditions having taken over the minds of those in Church set in their ways. Their spiritual ears and spiritual eyes are hardened over the years, as they are tired of hearing (like Jesus showed in Matthew 13). Thus they represent the 'old bottles' that cannot handle the 'new wine', which must have room for expansion.

But those brethren who are like new bottles (or new wine skins), they are more prepared to accept the 'new wine', because they haven't been subjected over many years to men's doctrines.

That is how it is in Christ's Church. Those who have been raised in a pre-trib rapture Church all their lives, and even their parent's lives, and grandparent's lives, are going to have a much more difficult time accepting the 'new wine" full strength written in God's Word. And I'm not speaking of the basic principles in Christ, like The Gospel, etc. I'm speaking about getting off the 'milk' of God's Word and instead coming to the "strong meat" of God's Word. Many brethren simply are still sucking on metaphorical milk bottles involving God's Word.

I see it as we are taken just before God deals with the world at the valley of decision during the tribulation.... I had believed the pre trib rapture only because when I first became saved the church I went to taught it and I figured that they knew more than I did... But I had got tired of pre mid post or that it already happened so I decided to forget all that I knew and read revelation for myself and 1 thing I first found was to understand it you had to get everything about it from all the books of the bible.... and as I studied there where times Id ask myself was that something I found through study or someone told me..... Id then go and look it up to make sure its what I found..

In 2thess 2:1 where it tells us that both the falling away and the man of sin comes before Jesus I just dont get how people believe in the pre trib anymore, those who do are decieved and it stands to reason that it is many of them who will be those who fall away...

I still see jim baker as a false one.... theres some truth in most people even jim but overall not alot...

I do not see as someone abive said 2 raptures, Jesus tells us in Luke 12:40-45 to be ready as we know not when he comes..... the 5 unwise virgins were not ready....

 

[Davy]

I see it as we are taken just before God deals with the world at the valley of decision during the tribulation.... I had believed the pre trib rapture only because when I first became saved the church I went to taught it and I figured that they knew more than I did... But I had got tired of pre mid post or that it already happened so I decided to forget all that I knew and read revelation for myself and 1 thing I first found was to understand it you had to get everything about it from all the books of the bible.... and as I studied there where times Id ask myself was that something I found through study or someone told me..... Id then go and look it up to make sure its what I found..

In 2thess 2:1 where it tells us that both the falling away and the man of sin comes before Jesus I just dont get how people believe in the pre trib anymore, those who do are decieved and it stands to reason that it is many of them who will be those who fall away...

I still see jim baker as a false one.... theres some truth in most people even jim but overall not alot...

I do not see as someone abive said 2 raptures, Jesus tells us in Luke 12:40-45 to be ready as we know not when he comes..... the 5 unwise virgins were not ready....

Staying with what God's written Word says is key. As long as you keep doing that then you won't be subject to all the pop doctrines of men that are designed by the crept in unawares to lead the believer astray. And who's fault is it that those brethren go astray from God's written Word, the preachers or the individual? Both, yet who is in charge of each person's soul and their Faith? The individual is, and who or what they follow. For this reason when Lord Jesus does appear, those who heeded men without verifying in God's Word for their selves will be cast to the outer darkness by being deceived to the false-Messiah that comes first.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I see it as we are taken just before God deals with the world at the valley of decision during the tribulation.... I had believed the pre trib rapture only because when I first became saved the church I went to taught it and I figured that they knew more than I did... But I had got tired of pre mid post or that it already happened so I decided to forget all that I knew and read revelation for myself and 1 thing I first found was to understand it you had to get everything about it from all the books of the bible.... and as I studied there where times Id ask myself was that something I found through study or someone told me..... Id then go and look it up to make sure its what I found..

In 2thess 2:1 where it tells us that both the falling away and the man of sin comes before Jesus I just dont get how people believe in the pre trib anymore, those who do are decieved and it stands to reason that it is many of them who will be those who fall away...

I still see jim baker as a false one.... theres some truth in most people even jim but overall not alot...

I do not see as someone abive said 2 raptures, Jesus tells us in Luke 12:40-45 to be ready as we know not when he comes..... the 5 unwise virgins were not ready....

Post for me a postrib rapture verse.
Just one.
Should be easy since surely you have more than my 8, that vividly point to a pretrib rapture.
Maybe you have ten or twenty?
Give me 4 out of your 10 verses.
I can wait.

 

[William Barton]

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken

Davy noted:
God is against pre-tribulation rapture.

Then why does Jesus take up believers at the *midpoint* of the "seven?"
o. Revelation 14:14-20
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17

 

[Davy]

Davy noted:
God is against pre-tribulation rapture.

Then why does Jesus personally take up believers at the midpoint of the final "seven?"
o. Revelation 14:14-20
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17

Jesus does NOT 'take' believers at the midpoint of the Daniel 9:27 "one week" (representing 7 years). Lord Jesus does not return for His 'faithful' Church until AFTER... the tribulation, like He showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and that Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, and 2 Thessalonians 2.

Those who are TAKEN per the end of Luke 17 is about those 'taken' by the false-Messiah who comes first. And those taken Jesus showed in Matthew 24:28 will be like a dead "carcase".

Therefore, all you are used to doing is NOT following what God's actual written Word says, but instead you are following a bunch of slogans thought up by a particular group of men that have crept into the church whom God allows to deceive as a test to see who will listen to Him.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Davy noted:
God is against pre-tribulation rapture.

Then why does Jesus personally take up believers at the midpoint of the final "seven?"
o. Revelation 14:14-20
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17

Davy reads from the postribber workbook.
The postribs have such a weak doctrine they have settled in, in the debate, with one liners and messenger attacking.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Post for me a postrib rapture verse.
Just one.
Should be easy since surely you have more than my 8, that vividly point to a pretrib rapture.
Maybe you have ten or twenty?
Give me 4 out of your 10 verses.
I can wait.

Still waiting.

Ok, any postribber.
There must be at least 10 postrib rapture verses.
I can settle for one.
Are there any?

 

[William Barton]

Jesus does NOT 'take' believers at the midpoint of the Daniel 9:27 "one week" (representing 7 years). Lord Jesus does not return f

Those who are TAKEN per the end of Luke 17 is about those 'taken' by the false-Messiah who comes first.

Davy noted:
o. Jesus does not take believers at the midpoint
o. taken = taken by the false Messiah

How does that fit with "meeting the Lord in the air?
(1Thessalonians 4:14-18)

Jesus does NOT 'take' believers at the midpoint of the Daniel 9:27 "one week" (representing 7 years). Lord Jesus does not return for His 'faithful' Church until AFTER... the tribulation, like He

Those who are TAKEN per the end of Luke 17 is about those 'taken' by the false-Messiah who comes first. And those taken Jesus showed in Matthew 24:28 will be like a dead "carcase".

Therefore, all you are used to doing is NOT following what God's actual written Word says, but instead you are following a bunch of slogans thought up by a particular group of men that have crept into the church whom God allows to deceive as a test to see who will listen to Him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Davy noted:
God is against pre-tribulation rapture.

Then why does Jesus take up believers at the *midpoint* of the "seven?"
o. Revelation 14:14-20
o. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17

How are you coming to that conclusion? The passages you referenced certainly don't support your claim.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Still waiting.

Ok, any postribber.
There must be at least 10 postrib rapture verses.
I can settle for one.
Are there any?

Hello? How many times do you have to be shown the truth before you accept it? Unlike the wildly imaginative pretrib theory, post-trib has explicit scriptures to support it.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

After the tribulation of those days, Jesus will return and the elect, which is us (the church) will be gathered. According to Paul we will be gathered to meet Christ in the air when Jesus returns (1 Thess 4:14-17). Very simple. Post-trib rapture. Explicitly taught by Jesus Himself. Stop fighting against what Jesus Himself plainly taught.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Stop fighting against what Jesus Himself plainly taught.

Not fighting against anything, Just simply 'Rightly
Dividing' God's Precious Word Of Truth:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[William Barton]

Davy noted:
<after the tribulation>

There has always been tribulation (John 16:33).
The rapture occurs before the great tribulation (Revelation 14:14-16).
It's in the Book.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Davy noted:
<after the tribulation>

There has always been tribulation (John 16:33).
The rapture occurs before the great tribulation (Revelation 14:14-16).
It's in the Book.

Before the 7 yr trib to be exact