Failed execution of female murderer

[Jack]

Sorry but you are wrong!

Jesus in freeing the woman caught in adultery did not revoke the death penalty God gave mankind through Noah in Genesis.

You conveniently leave out MOST of the death penalties in the Law of Moses. How about where YOU are commanded to execute your family? Are you missing pages from your Bible?

The church is the church and civil government is civil government. when God dispersed Israel from 70-135 AD He HImself ended Theocracy on earth until Jesus returns and sets up His government.

Until then He reigns over all civil governments (Yes even the communist and Islamic theocracies) He set up a law for murder that has never been revoked.

I suppose you are also agaionst believers going to war and pulling the trigger and killing the enemy as well.

Utter HYPOCRISY!

 

[Jack]

you obviously did not hear what i said . I ALREADY agree with that FACT that JESUS SURE DID NOT revoke the death penalty
that GOD gave . Now before i continue allow me to say NOAHIDE laws are an inv ention of satan . YEAH I SAID SATAN and his men
so dont buy it .
Okay good we got that cleared up . Now allow me to finsih .
YOU ARE VERY CORRECT that JESUS did not REVOKE the death penality .
HE JUST SHOWED US WHO IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN ENACT IT . LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN .
SO , GOD WILL JUDGE BY THE SON and will deliver the second death sentence unto
all who repented not to BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST , and not some other jesus , BUT ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
I am smelling nohaide on you . I hope i am assuming wrong , but dont think so .
IF you are , and i say ONL YIF YOU are attached to noahide . G ET THE HECK OUT OF that satanic anti christ beast serving trap .
Guess that sums it up .

All these promoters of MURDER must be without sin.

 

[Jack]

Sorry but you are wrong!

Jesus in freeing the woman caught in adultery did not revoke the death penalty God gave mankind through Noah in Genesis.

The church is the church and civil government is civil government. when God dispersed Israel from 70-135 AD He HImself ended Theocracy on earth until Jesus returns and sets up His government.

Until then He reigns over all civil governments (Yes even the communist and Islamic theocracies) He set up a law for murder that has never been revoked.

I suppose you are also agaionst believers going to war and pulling the trigger and killing the enemy as well.

You're preaching MURDER for corrupt, LYING, murdering, thieving politicians, judges, prosecutors ....

Many have been exonerated in prison, but you are preaching MURDER them before they can be exonerated!

Jas 2:13 He will have judgment without mercy who has shown no mercy!

 

[Jack]

I suppose you are also agaionst believers going to war and pulling the trigger and killing the enemy as well.

And LOTS of innocent humans, children, elderly, disabled, totally helpless people. You really think those murderers won't burn in Hell?

 

[Wrangler]

the death penalty God gave mankind through Noah in Genesis.

I’m not familiar with this.

The church is the church and civil government is civil government.

Yes and these groups are not mutually exclusive. In fact, there is considerable overlap.

I‘m disgusted when Christians say, ”As a Christian …” AS IF being a Christian we have no responsibility as a member of the PTA or any other organization - including military and civilian government. It’s not a question of priority but dual love and dual responsibilities. We love our mother and our wife and our children and our neighbor. It’s not like because I’m a member of a church, it means I don’t pay taxes and are obligated for no other duties on top of that.

 

[amigo de christo]

All these promoters of MURDER must be without sin.

I came to the understanding long ago .
And that understanding was and is this ,
In Christ alone is salvation . And i bank all i have
that FAITH IN JESUS is all i will ever need . HE will give me all i need to stand faithful and firm
to the end . I have banked all on that fact . There will be No false hope coming from me . thus no false inclusvie gospel .
IN JESUS i overcome and shall overcome . And without him i can do nothing .
BUT in HIM and by him , I can do all things necessary an d that which pleases God .
So , like i told some of you a few weeks back
I have decided to grab the all inclusive bull by the horns and expose the entire ecumeincal inclusive house
of anti christ for all it ever was . A LIE meant only for the destruction of all who do believe its false love and false hope .
THERE IS ONLY ONE . ONLY ONE who did and only one who can SAVE . THE CHRIST OF GOD
and no other . And to be saved YE MUST beleive . All who believe not have not the TRUTH in them .
Now mount up cause times of persecutions will only increase now in this late and last hour against
the sheep .

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m not familiar with this.



Yes and these groups are not mutually exclusive. In fact, there is considerable overlap.

I‘m disgusted when Christians say, ”As a Christian …” AS IF being a Christian we have no responsibility as a member of the PTA or any other organization - including military and civilian government. It’s not a question of priority but dual love and dual responsibilities. We love our mother and our wife and our children and our neighbor. It’s not like because I’m a member of a church, it means I don’t pay taxes and are obligated for no other duties on top of that.

I came to the understanding long ago .
And that understanding was and is this ,
In Christ alone is salvation . And i bank all i have
that FAITH IN JESUS is all i will ever need . HE will give me all i need to stand faithful and firm
to the end . I have banked all on that fact . There will be No false hope coming from me . thus no false inclusvie gospel .
IN JESUS i overcome and shall overcome . And without him i can do nothing .
BUT in HIM and by him , I can do all things necessary an d that which pleases God .
So , like i told some of you a few weeks back
I have decided to grab the all inclusive bull by the horns and expose the entire ecumeincal inclusive house
of anti christ for all it ever was . A LIE meant only for the destruction of all who do believe its false love and false hope .
THERE IS ONLY ONE . ONLY ONE who did and only one who can SAVE . THE CHRIST OF GOD
and no other . And to be saved YE MUST beleive . All who believe not have not the TRUTH in them .
Now mount up cause times of persecutions will only increase now in this late and last hour against
the sheep .

 

[Jack]

I came to the understanding long ago .
And that understanding was and is this ,
In Christ alone is salvation . And i bank all i have
that FAITH IN JESUS is all i will ever need . HE will give me all i need to stand faithful and firm
to the end . I have banked all on that fact . There will be No false hope coming from me . thus no false inclusvie gospel .
IN JESUS i overcome and shall overcome . And without him i can do nothing .
BUT in HIM and by him , I can do all things necessary an d that which pleases God .
So , like i told some of you a few weeks back
I have decided to grab the all inclusive bull by the horns and expose the entire ecumeincal inclusive house
of anti christ for all it ever was . A LIE meant only for the destruction of all who do believe its false love and false hope .
THERE IS ONLY ONE . ONLY ONE who did and only one who can SAVE . THE CHRIST OF GOD
and no other . And to be saved YE MUST beleive . All who believe not have not the TRUTH in them .
Now mount up cause times of persecutions will only increase now in this late and last hour against
the sheep .

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Moonwood]

In one sense they are irrelevant. Because each one is a separate issue.

One deals spiritually and one deals civilly. Of course as a believer all of us would desire to see her saved before she is executed.

If saving her soul is important enough that you want her alive long enough to hear and receive the Gospel, then being alive clearly has value beyond merely awaiting execution. The question then becomes: why shorten the very period in which repentance and transformation can occur, when Scripture repeatedly emphasizes God's patience and His desire that sinners turn and live?

After all, God would be perfectly just if He ended every human life today and brought us all into judgment. Yet He does not. Instead, He continues to show patience toward sinners, giving them time to repent.

So why should we be eager to take from others the very time that God, in His mercy, continues to grant to us?

And showing mercy does not mean eliminating justice. Every person will still stand before God, the perfect Judge. Sparing someone's life does not allow them to escape judgment; it simply leaves open the possibility of repentance, forgiveness, and transformation before they face the Judge of all the earth.

Moreover, human authorities can impose serious consequences without taking a person's life. Imprisonment and other penalties can acknowledge the gravity of evil, protect society, and uphold justice while still preserving the opportunity for repentance.

That is why I find it significant that, in a well-known case involving a woman facing a death-penalty offense, Jesus directed both the accusers and the bystanders away from execution and toward self-examination, mercy, and the reality of sin. He did not deny that sin deserved judgment. Rather, He demonstrated that there is a profound difference between being guilty before God and human beings rushing to carry out a death sentence.

 

[Wrangler]

The question then becomes: why shorten the very period in which repentance and transformation can occur,

There you go again, totally abandoning our duty to execute justice. Our duty as Christians to DO Justice!

God knows some people will never repent and transform. It's not a function of time but their inherent nature. Hence, the Lake of Fire.

 

[Lambano]

There you go again, totally abandoning our duty to execute justice. Our duty as Christians to DO Justice!

"Justice" has many forms. You're talking "retributive justice". Rendering unto each his due. Moonwood is talking "restorative justice", making things the way they should be, where harm done is reversed as best as can be done. The italicized segments come from classic Greek definitions of "justice".

And yes, we all recognize that humans cannot restore the dead victims; only God can.

When reading the Gospels, watch for where Jesus practices "restorative justice".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

that GOD gave . Now before i continue allow me to say NOAHIDE laws are an inv ention of satan . YEAH I SAID SATAN and his men
so dont buy it .

You are so very wrong! What are called the Noahide or Noahic laws were commanded by God!

Genesis 9 King James Version​

9 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Nowhere is Satan mentioned here! and these are not just for Jews for Israel was not even a people yet!

You are mixing the penalty of sin under the Mosaic covenant with the civil consequences of crime.

Romans 13 King James Version​

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

God established civil authority outside of Israel for they were not under the Mosaic covenant. Verse 4 is key! Civil authorities bear the sword for execution, not for having a fancy tool they parade around with.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If saving her soul is important enough that you want her alive long enough to hear and receive the Gospel, then being alive clearly has value beyond merely awaiting execution. The question then becomes: why shorten the very period in which repentance and transformation can occur, when Scripture repeatedly emphasizes God's patience and His desire that sinners turn and live?

Simply because god commanded ones life to be forfeited if they take another persons life. What is so hard about that. A preacher will not exceute her. civil government will according to teh dictates God gave to civil authorities in Gen.9 and romans 13.

Give a person a chance to receive the gospel but if they reject it- that is on them.

God also called for execution for one committing murder. I suppose you are against war as well.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You conveniently leave out MOST of the death penalties in the Law of Moses. How about where YOU are commanded to execute your family? Are you missing pages from your Bible?

No I do not "conveniently leave out". the Mosaic law is now done away with for Israel! It was never designed for Gentiles as gentiles.

Utter HYPOCRISY!

Not at all. but answer this qiestion. Are you totally against war?

You're preaching MURDER for corrupt, LYING, murdering, thieving politicians, judges, prosecutors ....

Many have been exonerated in prison, but you are preaching MURDER them before they can be exonerated!

Jas 2:13 He will have judgment without mercy who has shown no mercy!

This is a straw man and you just uttering lies! I never even implied this! Stop bearing false witness against a brother.

And LOTS of innocent humans, children, elderly, disabled, totally helpless people. You really think those murderers won't burn in Hell?

So being a soldier and killing one or more innocents is an unpardonable sin?

So you would have let Japan come in and take over America instead of America fighting against Japan in WW 2.

You would support Hitler taking over all of Europe, Russia and the UK instead of the allies fighting him because doing so would kill innocent civilians. WOW!!!!!!!!

 

[Moonwood]

There you go again, totally abandoning our duty to execute justice. Our duty as Christians to DO Justice!

God knows some people will never repent and transform. It's not a function of time but their inherent nature. Hence, the Lake of Fire.

I don't think I've abandoned justice at all. I've repeatedly acknowledged the legitimacy of civil authority, the reality of guilt, and the fact that wrongdoing carries consequences.

What I've challenged is the idea that Christians should discuss a person only in terms of guilt and punishment while treating repentance, transformation, suffering, and the state of the soul as irrelevant.

Earlier, you agreed that those things matter.

If they matter, then they aren't beside the point.

As for your point that some people will never repent, I agree that God knows who will ultimately reject Him. But we don't.

That's precisely why Scripture calls us to hope, pray, evangelize, and desire the sinner's conversion.

When Christ encountered the adulterous woman, He knew her heart perfectly. Yet He still gave her the opportunity to repent:

"Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

When Christ looked at the thief on the cross, He saw more than a criminal:

"Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

And when Christ looked at the very men who were crucifying Him, He prayed:

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."

So I don't see how desiring repentance, restoration, and salvation is abandoning justice. Christ repeatedly held those things before people while fully acknowledging their guilt.

You say some people never repent and eventually face judgment. That's true. But that is God's judgment, not ours. As long as someone is alive, the possibility of repentance remains.

In fact, the existence of the Lake of Fire strengthens my point rather than weakens it. If eternal judgment is real, then surely Christians ought to desire repentance while repentance is still possible.

Scripture doesn't say God delights in the destruction of sinners. It says:

"I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live."

That's why I continue to believe that Christians should desire what God desires: not merely that justice be done, but that sinners repent and live.

 

[Moonwood]

Simply because god commanded ones life to be forfeited if they take another persons life. What is so hard about that. A preacher will not exceute her. civil government will according to teh dictates God gave to civil authorities in Gen.9 and romans 13.

Give a person a chance to receive the gospel but if they reject it- that is on them.

God also called for execution for one committing murder. I suppose you are against war as well.

I think you're still answering a different question than the one I'm asking.

I've never denied that Genesis 9 or Romans 13 recognize the authority of civil government. I've acknowledged that repeatedly.

What I'm asking is why Christ's own example toward guilty sinners should not shape what Christians desire for them.

You say:

"God commanded one's life to be forfeited if they take another person's life."

Yet when Christ stood before a guilty woman facing death, He did not say:

"Carry out the sentence."

Instead He said:

"Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

That's the point nobody has really addressed.

I agree that government has responsibilities. What I'm talking about is the Christian heart toward the offender.

You say:

"Give a person a chance to receive the gospel."

I agree.

But if we desire that they receive the Gospel, repent, and be saved, then we're already acknowledging that the most important thing about them is not their crime, but what becomes of their soul.
That's why I keep bringing up Ezekiel 33:11:

"I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live."

If that is God's desire, shouldn't it be ours as well?

As for war, that's actually a different issue. A war is fought to defend a nation, stop aggression, or protect innocent lives. The death penalty concerns what we do with a person who is already restrained and no longer poses an immediate threat.

Those are different moral questions.

My point remains the same as it has throughout this discussion:

Christians can acknowledge guilt, acknowledge punishment, and acknowledge the state's authority while still desiring what God Himself says He desires: that the sinner repent, be healed, and live.

The fact that government may wield the sword answers a question about authority. It does not answer the question of what Christians should hope for. Christ consistently hoped for the sinner's conversion, and I believe Christians should too.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't think I've abandoned justice at all.

Yet, you have totally abandoned justice. What post did you advocate for justice in carrying out the execution of the TN prisoner sentenced to death identified in the OP?

 

[Wrangler]

I've repeatedly acknowledged the legitimacy of civil authority, the reality of guilt, and the fact that wrongdoing carries consequences.

You do gosh darn theoretical about it! Nothing to say about the practical aspect of carrying out justice in the case of the OP. Just lip service to the general idea then distract with ideas besides the point.

Christians can acknowledge guilt, acknowledge punishment, and acknowledge the state's authority while still desiring what God Himself says He desires

God loves justice. Ever hear him say that in your Bible? He doesn’t say he loves all these other ideas you keep talking about. Odd huh?

 

[Jack]

No I do not "conveniently leave out". the Mosaic law is now done away with for Israel! It was never designed for Gentiles as gentiles.1

Then why did you cite the Law of Moses death penalty in Genesis???

Not at all. but answer this qiestion. Are you totally against war?

War is MURDER! Yeah, Christians are against MURDERING thousands of people. I.E Hiroshima! Thousands of innocents were MURDERED.

Have you read the NT?

Romans 12:19
19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

This is a straw man and you just uttering lies! I never even implied this! Stop bearing false witness against a brother.

My brothers don't promote MURDERING millions of people!

So being a soldier and killing one or more innocents is an unpardonable sin?

Nope. They might repent.

So you would have let Japan come in and take over America instead of America fighting against Japan in WW 2.

I trust God's promises, not Uncle Scam's!

You would support Hitler taking over all of Europe, Russia and the UK instead of the allies fighting him because doing so would kill innocent civilians. WOW!!!!!!!!

You're the one supporting MURDERING "innocent civilians"!

 

[Jack]

Simply because god commanded ones life to be forfeited if they take another persons life. What is so hard about that. A preacher will not exceute her. civil government will according to teh dictates God gave to civil authorities in Gen.9 and romans 13.

Give a person a chance to receive the gospel but if they reject it- that is on them.

God also called for execution for one committing murder. I suppose you are against war as well.

You're still picking the verses you like and totally ignoring the MANY execution COMMANDS in the Law! You really think you will receive mercy on Judgment Day and promote MURDER! Don't count on it.