Did Jesus return around 70 AD?

[SeekTruth]

It was nothing compared to Rome and other Roman cities.

Jews were always the most blessed. Always the most successful. See Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, etc. They were always the most powerful.

 

[ewq1938]

Jews were always the most blessed. Always the most successful. See Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, etc. They were always the most powerful.

Rome ruled over Israel.

 

[SeekTruth]

“Many proofs,” yet apparently none made it into your post. How convenient.

Present the chapters and verses, explain their context, and demonstrate from Scripture why Babylon must mean Jerusalem. Saying “no doubt about this” tells us how confident you are; it does nothing to establish that you are correct.

You have announced your conclusion. Now supply the argument. Confidence is not exegesis.

Selah!

Jesus said that Jerusalem is guilty of all blood that was shed on earth. The same is only said about Babylon in Revelation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why can't that mean the old Jerusaem then? But not in a literal sense.

What do you mean by that?

And certainly not involving literal Jerusalem in the first century. In order for the NJ to make sense in the future, the old Jerusalem has to be found no more at all.

I have no idea of what you're trying to say. What is your understanding of the identity of Babylon in the book of Revelation?

Revelation 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

You have read Ezekiel 16 before, right?

Ezekiel 16:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
Ezekiel 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

Just because Babylon has some things in common with ancient Jerusalem doesn't make it ancient Jerusalem. Some of the descriptions of Babylon don't fit earthly Jerusalem, as I showed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since Jesus was a prophet:

Luke 13:33-34
It is not possible that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her!

So, you don't accept what is indicated in John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 then? Are those verses missing from your Bible? Or do you think this verse somehow cancels those verses out?

You obviously have given no thought to what that passage means and you obviously don't care if you interpret one verse in a way that contradicts other verses. You should know better than this.

When Jesus refers to Jerusalem in that Luke 13:33-34 passage, is He referring to the physical city itself or to the people of Jerusalem? He's referring to the people of Jerusalem. He's obviously not saying that the city of Jerusalem itself killed the prophets. He's saying that the people of Jerusalem (like the scribes and Pharisees) killed the prophets. And, it was the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem (the Sanhedrin) who called for Christ's death. So, He was saying that no prophet would perish outside of being killed or ordered to be killed by Jewish leaders. But, the actual place where Jesus was crucified was outside of Jerusalem, just as John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 explicitly indicate.

Also, John the Baptist was considered a prophet by Jesus Himself (Matthew 11:9-11). Yet, he was killed outside of Jerusalem at the order of King Herod. A Jew. So, that fits Jesus saying no prophet or person sent to the Jews would perish outside Jerusalem. He meant that no prophet would perish outside of being killed or condemned to death by Jewish leaders.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said that Jerusalem is guilty of all blood that was shed on earth. The same is only said about Babylon in Revelation.

Who is guilty of the blood shed on earth since 70 AD? The events written about in the book of Revelation did not end in 70 AD. It refers to things like the future second coming of Jesus Christ, the judgment and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. Surely, those things did not occur in 70 AD. So, the scope of Babylon goes well beyond just Jerusalem. It is the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem. When God says "Come out of her, my people" (Rev 18:4), He is telling people to come out of all of the false religions and philosophies of the world and instead "come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel (Hebrews 12:22-24).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jerusalem was the wealthiest city in the world. And the city was filled with idolatry. The Temple was a financial hotspot. People around the world came to borrow money. Jewish people were very good merchants and bankers. Jerusalem was also a culturally vibrant place in terms of entertainment. People nowdays really underestimate how big Jerusalem was back then.

None of that means that Jerusalem ever reigned over the kings of the earth or was the hold of very foul spirit or figuratively sat upon waters representing "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues". Babylon has a much bigger scope than Jerusalem ever had.

 

[SeekTruth]

So, you don't accept what is indicated in John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 then? Are those verses missing from your Bible? Or do you think this verse somehow cancels those verses out?

You obviously have given no thought to what that passage means and you obviously don't care if you interpret one verse in a way that contradicts other verses. You should know better than this.

When Jesus refers to Jerusalem in that Luke 13:33-34 passage, is He referring to the physical city itself or to the people of Jerusalem? He's referring to the people of Jerusalem. He's obviously not saying that the city of Jerusalem itself killed the prophets. He's saying that the people of Jerusalem (like the scribes and Pharisees) killed the prophets. And, it was the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem (the Sanhedrin) who called for Christ's death. So, He was saying that no prophet would perish outside of being killed or ordered to be killed by Jewish leaders. But, the actual place where Jesus was crucified was outside of Jerusalem, just as John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 explicitly indicate.

Also, John the Baptist was considered a prophet by Jesus Himself (Matthew 11:9-11). Yet, he was killed outside of Jerusalem at the order of King Herod. A Jew. So, that fits Jesus saying no prophet or person sent to the Jews would perish outside Jerusalem. He meant that no prophet would perish outside of being killed or condemned to death by Jewish leaders.

Jesus said that it is NOT possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem. That is why he went to Jerusalem to be killed there (see verse 32). But YOU say he didnt really mean that. Whom should I trust, JESUS or you? BTW, Jewish leaders were not only in Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia.
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

What a surprise. You didn't address anything I said. Try again.

Tell me how Jerusalem ever reigned over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Tell me how Jerusalem was "a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!" (Revelation 18:2). Tell me how "all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her" (Revelation 18:3). The waters upon which the harlot Babylon sites represent "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:1,15). How does that apply to Jerusalem?

You didn't' address one single thing that I said here. But, that's not surprising at all. You always ignore details that don't fit your beliefs.

 

[SeekTruth]

Who is guilty of the blood shed on earth since 70 AD? The events written about in the book of Revelation did not end in 70 AD. It refers to things like the future second coming of Jesus Christ, the judgment and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. Surely, those things did not occur in 70 AD. So, the scope of Babylon goes well beyond just Jerusalem. It is the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem. When God says "Come out of her, my people" (Rev 18:4), He is telling people to come out of all of the false religions and philosophies of the world and instead "come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel (Hebrews 12:22-24).

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Throughout Revelation, the great city is always Babylon. It says: The great city where Jesus was crucified. Jesus was crucified in JERUSALEM. How much clearer do you want it to be?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said that it is NOT possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem.

Hello? Why are you not addressing anything I said? Is Luke 13:33-34 talking about the physical city of Jerusalem itself or the people of Jerusalem? It's the latter, but you're acting like it's the former. John the Baptist was a prophet, according to Jesus Himself, and he was killed outside of Jerusalem. How do you reconcile your understanding of Luke 13:33-34 with that?

That is why he went to Jerusalem to be killed there (see verse 32). But YOU say he didnt really mean that. Whom should I trust, JESUS or you? BTW, Jewish leaders were not only in Jerusalem.

I trust scripture and I actually make an effort to see the context of scripture, unlike yourself.

Should I trust the following verses to be true or trust you? I will choose scripture over you every time.

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

Do you think "near the city" is in the city? Do you think "outside the gate" is inside the gate? Why do you cherry pick the scriptures that you think support your beliefs while ignoring the rest?

Your username is ironic. You clearly put very little effort into seeking the truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Throughout Revelation, the great city is always Babylon. It says: The great city where Jesus was crucified. Jesus was crucified in JERUSALEM. How much clearer do you want it to be?

He was NOT crucified in Jerusalem. Why do you not accept what the following verses teach? You interpret scripture the way cults do. They cherry pick certain verses that, on the surface, can seem to support their beliefs, while they ignore many others that do not support their beliefs. Don't be like them.

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

Do you think "near the city" is in the city? Do you think "outside the gate" is inside the gate? How much clearer could these verses be? Why do you cherry pick the scriptures that you think support your beliefs while ignoring the rest?

 

[SeekTruth]

He was NOT crucified in Jerusalem. Why do you not accept what the following verses teach? You interpret scripture the way cults do. They cherry pick certain verses that, on the surface, can seem to support their beliefs, while they ignore many others that do not support their beliefs. Don't be like them.

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

Do you think "near the city" is in the city? Do you think "outside the gate" is inside the gate? How much clearer could these verses be? Why do you cherry pick the scriptures that you think support your beliefs while ignoring the rest?

I clearly won this debate because I believe what Jesus HIMSELF said in Luke 13:33-34: "It is NOT possible that a prophet would perish OUTSIDE of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her!"

Jesus says "not possible outside of Jerusalem." But you want to say "outside of Jewish leaders". I believe Jesus, not you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Y

Jesus said that Jerusalem is guilty of all blood that was shed on earth. The same is only said about Babylon in Revelation.

LOL. You believe a physical city in the Middle East is responsible for “all that were slain upon the earth” (Revelation 18:24)—including Abel, who was murdered before that city even existed?

That is quite a claim! Now explain from Scripture how your interpretation accounts for it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I clearly won this debate

LOL! By ignoring John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 and not addressing the fact that John the Baptist was a prophet and was killed outside of Jerusalem? Good one!

because I believe what Jesus HIMSELF said in Luke 13:33-34: "It is NOT possible that a prophet would perish OUTSIDE of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her!"

Jesus says "not possible outside of Jerusalem." But you want to say "outside of Jewish leaders". I believe Jesus, not you.

I showed you what that means, but you stubbornly refuse to consider anything outside of what you have apparently been taught. Why can't you answer any of my questions or address any of my points? Are you afraid to do so? Is Luke 13:33-34 referring to the physical city of Jerusalem itself or to the people of Jerusalem?

 

[SeekTruth]

LOL. You believe a physical city in the Middle East is responsible for “all that were slain upon the earth” (Revelation 18:24)—including Abel, who was murdered before that city even existed?

That is quite a claim! Now explain from Scripture how your interpretation accounts for it.

yes, i believe it.

Matthew 23:34-37
On account of this, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

 

[Marty fox]

yes, i believe it.

Matthew 23:34-37
On account of this, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

I believe Babylon the great to also be Jerusalem in the first century, but Jerusalem isn't a literal city its Apostate Isreal

 

[SeekTruth]

LOL! By ignoring John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 and not addressing the fact that John the Baptist was a prophet and was killed outside of Jerusalem? Good one!


I showed you what that means, but you stubbornly refuse to consider anything outside of what you have apparently been taught. Why can't you answer any of my questions or address any of my points? Are you afraid to do so? Is Luke 13:33-34 referring to the physical city of Jerusalem itself or to the people of Jerusalem?

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Tell me, if Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem as YOU claim, then WHY does this verse say that Jesus was crucified IN THE STREET OF THE GREAT CITY?

 

[Marty fox]

Jews were always the most blessed. Always the most successful. See Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, etc. They were always the most powerful.

Abraham and Isaac weren't Jews

 

[SeekTruth]

I believe Babylon the great to also be Jerusalem in the first century, but Jerusalem isn't a literal city its Apostate Isreal

Then why did God let all houses in Jerusalem to be destroyed in 70 AD? Why did he let destroy the temple? Why did he let burn the streets? Why did God's wrath fall upon physical Jerusalem? Never before had a city been so wiped out as Jerusalem in 70 AD. According to Josephus, the destruction was eerie and terrible.