Outer Darkness: a possible destiny for the saved

[JimKnox]

Not at all.
If you had read all of my posts.
You would have learned that belief must be defined Biblically.
I've already explained when OSAS claim belief alone saves, they redefine the meaning.
Jesus taught true Biblical belief is belief in Him and His word.
To claim you believe then claim ones obedience to Jesus' commandments has nothing to do with eternal life is in reality treaching one can be saved in unbelief.

Listen: You cannot claim you believe at the same time violating Jesus' word.
Morris teaches you can violate Jesus' word and still be saved by belief alone.
This is in reality receiving eternal life in unbelief.

Pay close attention to what Jesus teaches is required for eternal life.

OSAS teaches eternal life is attained by belief alone and believing in Gods word plays no part.
This doctrine is unscriptual and a fictional made up fable.


Its impossible to seperate Jesus' word from belief and it be true Biblical belief.

Bob n weave.
You blatantly misrepresented OSAS.
Then you double down on works salvation.

I've been following this thread for a while now.

You repeatedly misrepresented OSAS and then preach works salvation.

Then you misrepresented Morris repeatedly.

Then you burn that strawman.

Then you patronize your opponents (myself included) and preach works salvation.

Then you burn another strawman.

Repeat, ad infinitum.

 

[Titus]

Bob n weave.
You blatantly misrepresented OSAS.
Then you double down on works salvation.

I've been following this thread for a while now.

You repeatedly misrepresented OSAS and then preach works salvation.

Then you misrepresented Morris repeatedly.

Then you burn that strawman.

Then you patronize your opponents (myself included) and preach works salvation.

Then you burn another strawman.

Repeat, ad infinitum.

You are making inflammatory remarks about me.
But you aren't giving evidence.
Try engaging in the actual discussion and answer my questions.
Or
Continue to show you have no actual proof of your accusations.

 

[Titus]

You blatantly misrepresented OSAS

How? You never give any evidence.
OSAS teaches you can ignore Jesus' word like thou shall not murder.
Just believe in the death, burial and ressurection and be saved as going against Jesus word(sins) plays no part in eternal life.
This is the doctrine of OSAS.
I quoted the doctrine from a OSAS preacher!!!
I've not misrepresented anyone.

Sam Morris, pastor of First Baptist Church in Stanford Texas wrote a tract titled:
" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

This is the doctrine of OSAS.
You have a problem with the doctrine not me.

 

[Titus]

We gots far bigger an event to warn against.
Look around at both sides of the aisel .
One sides preaches a social gospel of anti christ
the other side preaches a noahide gospel of anti christ .
WANNA KNOW what both sides have in common . THEY come after me for preaching the one true gospel .
IF i preach it to the left and expose their social gospel pro paliestine , i get cast out .
IF i come and preach the gospel to the right and its noahide pro israel , i get cast out .
NETIHER SIDE follows JESUS . and they both follow ecumeincal incluisivity
and the peace plan of an anti christ . and both cast out the TRUE PEACE PLAN OF GOD which is THE T RUE GOSPEL
that if one DOES BELIEVE IN JESUS they are saved , are reconciled to GOD and have peace with GOD .
The harlot has infiltrated and , as i said before so now i say again , SHE KNOWS exactly what to wear
to seduce any , whether liberal or whether conservative
whether protestant or Catholic
whether buddist , muslim or any other false religoin . SHE has infiltrated them as a wolf always does
Wearing their garments to decieve them all to become as one . under what ALL will beleive is God
and all will beleive is his love and is his peace . SOMEONE is a liar and that someone
and his harlot know exactly how to seduce and lie .

Hello, Amigo!!!!

 

[JimKnox]

You are making inflammatory remarks about me.
But you aren't giving evidence.
Try engaging in the actual discussion and answer my questions.
Or
Continue to show you have no actual proof of your accusations.

Stop dodging.
All you have done is deny that you are misrepresenting OSAS.
I showed the proof.
And you return with gaslighting.

 

[JimKnox]

How? You never give any evidence.
OSAS teaches you can ignore Jesus' word like thou shall not murder.
Just believe in the death, burial and ressurection and be saved as going against Jesus word(sins) plays no part in eternal life.
This is the doctrine of OSAS.
I quoted the doctrine from a OSAS preacher!!!
I've not misrepresented anyone.

This is the doctrine of OSAS.
You have a problem with the doctrine not me.

You just did it again.
You are misrepresenting OSAS.
It is NOT about the sins of the believers.
OSAS is about the efficacy of my Saviour's blood.
Yet, here you are preaching heresy and claiming it is the doctrine of OSAS. It is not.
My problem is with liars who misrepresent OSAS.

 

[JimKnox]

Very early in this thread I offered a solution to this alleged dilemma but nobody even took the offer.
Millenial Kingdom Exclusion.
Look it up.
OSAS is true.
But it is no license to sin.
The threat of outer darkness for the UNFAITHFUL believers is real.
Ask me how.
I dare ya.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello, Amigo!!!!

Hello titus . Let all who do name the name OF JESUS the Christ depart from all inquity .
All praises with thanksgivings are due the Lord .

 

[Titus]

Stop dodging.
All you have done is deny that you are misrepresenting OSAS.
I showed the proof.
And you return with gaslighting.

Wheres your evidence?

You just did it again.
You are misrepresenting OSAS.
It is NOT about the sins of the believers.
OSAS is about the efficacy of my Saviour's blood.
Yet, here you are preaching heresy and claiming it is the doctrine of OSAS. It is not.
My problem is with liars who misrepresent OSAS.

Is my quotation of Sam Morris who teaches OSAS a lie?

Sam Morris, pastor of First Baptist Church in Stanford Texas wrote a tract titled:
" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

Very early in this thread I offered a solution to this alleged dilemma but nobody even took the offer.
Millenial Kingdom Exclusion.
Look it up.
OSAS is true.
But it is no license to sin.
The threat of outer darkness for the UNFAITHFUL believers is real.
Ask me how.
I dare ya.

What dilemma?

OSAS teaches eternal security through believing once in your life.
From that moment no sin can forfeit the believers eternal security.
I've been waiting this entire time for you to give some evidence of your accusations that I've misrepresented OSAS.
Repost where you claim you proved me wrong.

Question for you: Can a born again believer murder someone and before he repents, he dies,
still have eternal security?

OSAS is not eternal security it is a false sense of security.

Something I want you to notice.
Sam Morris says even idolatry cannot separate the Christian who once believed from eternal security.
That would make a believer become an unbeliever if they began to believe in other gods.
So I have never misrepresented OSAS.

 

[Episkopos]

Wheres your evidence?

Is my quotation of Sam Morris who teaches OSAS a lie?




What dilemma?

OSAS teaches eternal security through believing once in your life.
From that moment no sin can forfeit the believers eternal security.
I've been waiting this entire time for you to give some evidence of your accusations that I've misrepresented OSAS.
Repost where you claim you proved me wrong.

Question for you: Can a born again believer murder someone and before he repents, he dies,
still have eternal security?

OSAS is not eternal security it is a false sense of security.

Something I want you to notice.
Sam Morris says even idolatry cannot separate the Christian who once believed from eternal security.
That would make a believer become an unbeliever if they began to believe in other gods.
So I have never misrepresented OSAS.

This can be settled very easily.

One must endure to the end to be saved. AND all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Both are true.

If one indeed is at least trying to be faithful till the end...there is still the possibility of being cast into eternal darkness. Being saved does not guarantee a good outcome. It is to be saved from the judgment of the world...which is either the nations or the lake of fire.

 

[Titus]

This can be settled very easily.

One must endure to the end to be saved. AND all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Both are true.

If one indeed is at least trying to be faithful till the end...there is still the possibility of being cast into eternal darkness. Being saved does not guarantee a good outcome. It is to be saved from the judgment of the world...which is either the nations or the lake of fire.

Jesus and His apostles settled this matter in His word.
The pagan Gnostics with their heretical Gnosticism invented this false doctrine.
The Word refuted Gnosticism even before the word in the new covenant was written down.

All of calvinism's TULIP is in reality Gnosticism therefore pagan not Christian.
To this very day the gnostics have been the predominant theology among protestant churches.

Their influence has tainted true Biblical christianity.
And of course satan is behind Gnosticism as he is in all religious teaching that brainwashes, indoctrinates, and deceives people from the true gospel that saves, Romans 1:16.

1Thessalonians 2:9-12,
- even him who is coming is after the working of satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,
- and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved
- and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie:
- that they might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

 

[mailmandan]

You're assuming that "twice dead" means these men were born again and then lost their salvation. But where does Jude actually say that?

Read the context. Jude 4 calls them "ungodly men" who turn God's grace into lasciviousness and deny Jesus Christ.

Then in verse 12 he describes them as "trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots."

Notice that Jude says they are WITHOUT FRUIT. He doesn't say they once had spiritual life in Christ and then lost it.

Jesus also warned in Matthew 7:16-20 that false prophets are known by their fruits, and that corrupt trees are cut down and cast into the fire.

You are taking the words "twice dead" and building a doctrine around something Jude never actually says.

So I'll ask you again. WHERE DOES JUDE SAY THESE MEN WERE EVER BORN AGAIN?

If your interpretation is correct, show us from the passage where Jude says they were regenerated, received eternal life, and then lost it.

Repeating "twice dead" doesn't prove any of those things.

Amen! A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB says "doubly dead."

Notice in Matthew 15:13 that Jesus said every plant that my Heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

In contrast with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and  preserved in Jesus Christ. (vs. 1)

 

[Titus]

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

Amen,

Jude 4,
- for there are certain men crept in unawares who were before ordained to this condemnation ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness(sexual perverts)
and denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The text says twice dead...meaning the person was regenerated and is now either asleep or dead spiritually based on a departure, not in the mind, but in the heart.

Twice dead seems to mean annihilation.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus and His apostles settled this matter in His word.
The pagan Gnostics with their heretical Gnosticism invented this false doctrine.
The Word refuted Gnosticism even before the word in the new covenant was written down.

All of calvinism's TULIP is in reality Gnosticism therefore pagan not Christian.
To this very day the gnostics have been the predominant theology among protestant churches.

Their influence has tainted true Biblical christianity.
And of course satan is behind Gnosticism as he is in all religious teaching that brainwashes, indoctrinates, and deceives people from the true gospel that saves, Romans 1:16.

1Thessalonians 2:9-12,
- even him who is coming is after the working of satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,
- and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved
- and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie:
- that they might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

i dont know how much you know about that man you are telling this too .
But i , being a solider of JESUS CHRIST, must absolutely warn you about him .
Do you realize and or do you know
that man epi has long came after me for even preaching the dire need TO have to FIRST beleive on JESUS .
HE is inclusivain . Do you know that while epi can preach an appearance of holiness and righteous walking
HE believes a lie .
Do you wanna know what a couple of years back hit me like a rock upside the head when i was watching that man .
I saw inclusivisim on him so i asked him if he was one . HE IS .
But you might wanna take a seat before i next tell you what he did .
And before i do tell you what he did ,,,, i already knew he would because i already had long ago read
about inclusvism in the library .
I found epi on a thread talking to an ATHEIST . TO an A THIEST mind you .
THERE WAS NO talk from epi to the atheist about HAVING to repent and BELIEVE ON JESUS .
the only hope EPI gave to that lost soul , was this , WELL if you receive a righteous man then you will
recieve a righteous mans reward . NO JESUS . NO HAV ING TO BELIEVE ON JESUS .
Now , remain seated .
WHEN I came on to that site i went to the athiest .
And i reminded the athiest of his DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
And what did EPI prince of inclusivty have to say when i DID .
HE CALLED IT RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM . WHICH did not even suprise me in the least when he did .
Because as i told you i read about incluvism long ago in the library .
ANTI CHRIST has come and it has come to merge all not in the lambs book of life
to be as one man with one common plan .

 

[ProDeo]

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

There can be no doubt that these filthy dreamers are among us. They have no fear of God at all....because they have been told by pulpiteers that there is nothing to fear. Following any wind of doctrine that suits them, they make grandiose statements without any evidence at all....based entirely on religious hubris.

Twice dead....??? It means they were regenerated into an initial grace and had experienced a sample of what grace provided...they were headed for life...but were spoiled through vain philosophy and preferred readings of the bible. Their potential was eradicated because they didn't receive the truth with humility, so they went after lies and deceit.

Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.

So, about whom was Jude talking in the first 19 verses ?

Not about Christians.

Selective reading ?

 

[Titus]

i dont know how much you know about that man you are telling this too .
But i , being a solider of JESUS CHRIST, must absolutely warn you about him .
Do you realize and or do you know
that man epi has long came after me for even preaching the dire need TO have to FIRST beleive on JESUS .
HE is inclusivain . Do you know that while epi can preach an appearance of holiness and righteous walking
HE believes a lie .
Do you wanna know what a couple of years back hit me like a rock upside the head when i was watching that man .
I saw inclusivisim on him so i asked him if he was one . HE IS .
But you might wanna take a seat before i next tell you what he did .
And before i do tell you what he did ,,,, i already knew he would because i already had long ago read
about inclusvism in the library .
I found epi on a thread talking to an ATHEIST . TO an A THIEST mind you .
THERE WAS NO talk from epi to the atheist about HAVING to repent and BELIEVE ON JESUS .
the only hope EPI gave to that lost soul , was this , WELL if you receive a righteous man then you will
recieve a righteous mans reward . NO JESUS . NO HAV ING TO BELIEVE ON JESUS .
Now , remain seated .
WHEN I came on to that site i went to the athiest .
And i reminded the athiest of his DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
And what did EPI prince of inclusivty have to say when i DID .
HE CALLED IT RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM . WHICH did not even suprise me in the least when he did .
Because as i told you i read about incluvism long ago in the library .
ANTI CHRIST has come and it has come to merge all not in the lambs book of life
to be as one man with one common plan .

Dont worry about me friend.
I only stand for the truth, John 17:17.

I dont pet nobody.

When you know the word. False teaching is instantly recognized.
Episkopos, has private interpretation of many passages,
Peter warns,
1Peter 1:20,
- knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation

I'm already well aware.
Thank you for caring about me.

2Timothy 3:15,
- and from a child thou hast  known the holy scriptures which are able to make thee  wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

Hebrews 5:14,
- but strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil

 

[ProDeo]

Now you’re just sounding like Lizbeth. You’re trying to fit it all to explain why you can’t never be completely free from sin. All these machinations are useless.

Do you believe those who don't reach sinlessness in this life are lost?

Your words seem to imply that.

 

[JimKnox]

Wheres your evidence?

Is my quotation of Sam Morris who teaches OSAS a lie?




What dilemma?

OSAS teaches eternal security through believing once in your life.
From that moment no sin can forfeit the believers eternal security.
I've been waiting this entire time for you to give some evidence of your accusations that I've misrepresented OSAS.
Repost where you claim you proved me wrong.

Question for you: Can a born again believer murder someone and before he repents, he dies,
still have eternal security?

OSAS is not eternal security it is a false sense of security.

Something I want you to notice.
Sam Morris says even idolatry cannot separate the Christian who once believed from eternal security.
That would make a believer become an unbeliever if they began to believe in other gods.
So I have never misrepresented OSAS.

Every time you answer me you prove my point.
You are misrepresenting OSAS every time you state your understanding of the doctrine (which is misguided BTW ) and then make an erroneous conclusion based on that misguided understanding . I call that the Wizard of Oz method since you burn scarecrow.
OSAS does NOT say an unbeliever can be saved like you claim. A believer can NEVER become an unbeliever because of the keeping power of the Holy Spirit.
(See Eph 1:13 .)
You are preaching a doctrine that denies Paul's proof against your doctrine in Galatians 3:1-3.
I fully expect you to reject these proofs.
End. Of. Discussion.

 

[ProDeo]

You have faith ABOUT Jesus...whom you don't know in Spirit and truth. And you are banking on a religious proposition that all you have to do is The truth, on the other hand, requires a full surrender with NO GUARANTEES....it is by faith in God's CHARACTER. IF God accepts you He translates you to walk in resurrection life and power. Then you have a testimony...but still not a guarantee. The flesh wants guarantees....and the false spirits offer them....but NOT GOD.

You are projecting your own fear for outer darkness.

While knowingly ignoring many Scripture passages.