If you ask someone to pray for you.....are you putting them between you and God?
The prayer of a righteous man availed much.
We are told to pray for one another.
Why Christians Call Mary the Mother of God.
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The prayer of a righteous man availed much.
We are told to pray for one another.
Catholics don't say "Mother of God" to mean the Holy Trinity, rather mother of one Person of the Holy Trinity: the Word Incarnate. And that is scriptural.
Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, says to Mary:
"And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
In Luke's Gospel, "Lord" is a divine title:
• Luke 1:17 - "the Lord their God"
• Luke 1:76 - "go before the Lord"
• Luke 2:11 - "Christ the Lord"
Later, the Apostle Thomas says directly to Jesus:
"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)
Elizabeth calls Mary "the mother of my Lord."
Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God."
Thomas makes explicit what Elizabeth had already recognized: the child Mary carried is God the Son incarnate.
That is why Christians call Mary the Mother of God.
The title does not mean Mary created God, existed before God, or is greater than God.
"Mother of God" is not only a statement about Mary. It is a confession about who Jesus is.
Catholics don't say "Mother of God" to mean the Holy Trinity, rather mother of one Person of the Holy Trinity: the Word Incarnate. And that is scriptural.
Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, says to Mary:
"And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
In Luke's Gospel, "Lord" is a divine title:
• Luke 1:17 - "the Lord their God"
• Luke 1:76 - "go before the Lord"
• Luke 2:11 - "Christ the Lord"
Later, the Apostle Thomas says directly to Jesus:
"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)
Elizabeth calls Mary "the mother of my Lord."
Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God."
Thomas makes explicit what Elizabeth had already recognized: the child Mary carried is God the Son incarnate.
That is why Christians call Mary the Mother of God.
The title does not mean Mary created God, existed before God, or is greater than God.
"Mother of God" is not only a statement about Mary. It is a confession about who Jesus is.
Asking for Mary to intercede in prayer for us and others is not replacing Jesus as intermediary between God and man, nor idolatry—I'll explain the differences after I'm off work.
So, for example, you believe Mary is not helping bring about the redemption of mankind by bringing the redeemer into the world in the first place?
Yes, but not all of them.
You wanted to see quotes from a catechism, rather than just from the "Magisterium".
LOL!
The article supported calling Mary "Co-redemptrix" (and several other blasphemous titles).
What? It's what the R.C. leadership stated.
I would certainly hope so. What does that have to do with anything?
And...?
Seriously? Every denomination has vile and vicious falsehoods? I doubt that very much!
Yes; and I warn people about it.
I agree with some of what Reformed Christians believe, since much of it is biblical.
What do you mean by "Faith Only"?
Jaw drops... Are you having a laugh?
Roman Catholicism does not teach the gospel (salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, to the glory of God alone); but, it does teach several different kinds of idolatry (worship of a wafer, sometime parades around in a monstrance, for that very purpose; praying and bowing down before statues and pictures; praying to "saints"; veneration of relics; etc.).
They also teach maintenance of justification by works; and a mediatorial priesthood, when there is ONE Mediator between God and men - the man Christ Jesus.
They teach that the "pope" is Christ on earth and give him titles of blasphemy (Holy Father, Rector Orbis, Vicar of Christ (which means "In place of Christ" (i.e. anti-Christ)), Pontifex Maximus (a pagan religious title)).
They pronounce curses on those who reject transubstantiation (and several other curses).
etc., etc.
Mariolatry is rife in Roman Catholicism.
Then why don't you just say "mother of Jesus"? And, why do you capitalise "Mother", as if it were some kind of title, instead of just a statement of fact?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Which is why the roman church should end all its worship (called veneration) of Mary. She was a sinner like all of us who needed to trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus for her salvation.
She was not bodily assumed into heaven and she is not the Queen of Heaven nor is she co -redemptrix and co-mediatrix as Rome has given her the false titles.
Ronald
Venertion is different than worship.
It would be important to know the difference.
But, I have to agree with the rest.
I'll say this though.
The CC never taught about a place called Limbo.
People made it up. Because they believed that babies that didn't get baptized went to hell thanks to the teaching of the same man that John Calvin depended on for his sick representation of God.
People made it up.
The CC never taught it.
They never rejected it either in a forceful way...
this is a problem.
Incorrect teaching by the laity should be rejected and fixed immediately.
The problem is that the CC has very bad teaching,,,in fact, it's almost non existant except for the very few that are willing to learn something.
So we have to be careful to distinguish between what people teach and what the church teaches.
And with that,,,I'm getting off this thread because it is not edifying to anyone.
You're a calvinist.
You do know that no other denomination believes what you believe, right?
You need to study up on theology and stop worrying about Catholics.
What You believe is far far worse than anything a Catholic could teach.
Justification by works.
Care to discuss?
Catholics
Oriental Orthodox
Eastern Orthodox which comprise about 62% of ALL Christians
and 53% of Protestants believe works are necessary to remain saved.
That's about 83% of all Christians.
Because they actually understand the NT.
Look it up.
It's easy these days.
Study calvinism the same way you're studying catholicism.
It'll get you out of there quick.
Yeah.
You have bad information and I'm not here to convince you.
I just wonder what God thinks of all this.
Your reply is not needed.
Even if you only read the verses about Mary being the mother of Jesus, you could not think that the Bible intended anyone to suppose that Jesus was just an "ordinary guy"! One example follows below.
Matt. 1:18-23 (KJV)
18 ¶Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
1) I'm not a follower of Calvin.
2) Even if I were, "Calvinist" is not a denomination.
3) There are many denominations (or portions of them) that believe in God's sovereignty in salvation.
You don't know much about what I believe; but, I can guarantee you that the distinctive teachings of Roman Catholicism are orders of magnitude worse than anything I believe.
Roman Catholicism teaches that initial justification is by faith alone; but, they go on to teach that maintenance of that justification is by works.
Appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy.
Salvation by works is antithetical to the gospel, which is that salvation is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
The place that good works have, in the life of a born again Christian, is that they flow from the new life that God has place within us, by the Holy Spirit.
Since I'm not a follower of Calvin, your comment is irrelevant.
More empty rhetoric...
And neither is yours.
You asked why we don't say the mother of Jesus.
Not me!
I agree with mother of God.
Even Luke agrees with me....
Your verse.
18 ¶Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
Again,,,Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Now we just have to figure out if He's God or not.
If He is...then Mary is the mother of God.
You'll get a reply anyway.
Girls like to have the last word.
You are a follower of Calvin.
You are of the refomred denominations.
The reformed denomination believes in calviinism and teaches TULIP.
Nowhere does the bible use the words GOD IS SOVEREIGN.
This is understood by every Christian nonetheless.
The difference is that you don't understand like every other Christian does.
I know what you believe...
and it's not good.
But this isn't the place.
We'll meet again.
I'll say this:
Catholicism does not change the nature of God.
what YOU believe does.
Really?
You think that 83% of all Chrisitans are wrong and 17% are right about NOT needing good works to be saved?
I'd go with the 83%.
I wouldn't take the chance.
Let's say 100 persons are looking at a color.
83% say it's blue
17% say it's grey
What color would YOU think it is if you couldn't see it?
Like I said....not here.
However Jesus DID say this.
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
It didn't take over 3 years for Jesus to teach that all that was necessary was faith in Him.
That's for sure.
That does not remove the fact that good works are necessary.
Maybe we can discuss one day.
I never said it was only Mary's doing.
You said:
"Co-redemptrix" or "Co-redeemer" would mean one who helped in our redemption, so it's entirely unsurprising that these titles are viewed as blasphemous."
In reply, I'm actually asking:
So, for example, you believe Mary did not help bring about the redemption of mankind through Her obedience to God by accepting becoming the mother of God the Word Incarnate, the Redeemer, into the world by conceiving and giving birth to Him so that He could fulfill His mission?
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I capitalize "Mother" when referencing Mary out of reverence and respect for Her.
The title "Mother of God" does not refer to the Holy Trinity: God the Father (Thought), God the Son (Word), and God the Holy Spirit, because only one Person of the Holy Trinity became human: God the Word.
Jesus is God the Word Incarnate: "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." You accept that too, yes? Mary is His mother as Scripture repeatedly states. Elizabeth was the first to call Mary "mother of my Lord (God)", because She conceived and gave birth to Him, and Thomas rightly called Jesus "my Lord and my God!". Hopefully you accept that too. If so, how is it not accurate to call Mary the mother of God?
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RandyDawson
Member
In the flesh she gave birth to Jesus so the Word of God could take upon Himself flesh and come in to this world to go to the Cross and be High Priest over the New Covenant. That's the end of Mary's calling. After watching over Jesus growing to be an adult, she's out.
So yes she was Jesus' momma according to the flesh but she is not equal with Jesus, she is not co-savior or co-redemptrix, and as someone who has passed away from this earth she cannot pray to God for people or be in contact with people here on earth and she's not God's mother as in God answers to her.
It's very telling that catholics don't have a direct relationship with the Father thru Jesus Christ and they are always looking for someone to go through to get to God such as Mary, or their priest, or some "saint". And to be fair many protestants are the same way because they call their pastor or some church official anytime they have a problem to go thru them to talk to God or ask God for help.
The doctrines catholics follow make Mary in to an idol and catholics have gone far beyond what is written in God's Word which they justify by claiming they go by their own made up religious traditions which are not found in God's Word as though the Lord totally forgot to put their religious traditions in His Word.
I'm friends with several catholics and they are not actually born again and do not know the Lord Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. What they have is their own religious traditions that are not based on the doctrine of Christ. I mean they are nice people and all, but there are nice people in all the other false religions too so being a nice person and meaning well does not mean someone knows the Lord.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
The catholics do not follow the doctrine of Christ by their own admission. They instead follow their own religious traditions known as catholicism which is not taught by Jesus and His Apostles. Protestants do the same thing in that they follow reformed theology rather than the doctrine of Christ so they too have their own dead religious traditions just like the catholics.
As I've posted previously, Mariam was the mother of God-manifest-in-the-flesh, not God generally; and, a point of contention with the R.C. poster is that he capitalises "Mother" (in "Mother of God"), as if it were some kind of title.
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