How can there be life after death?

[Riven]

Would you even be able to understand the answer?

I think the trinity is very confusing to the human mind. So probably not.

Either way, would it keep you from following Jesus?

No. I don't have to know everything in order to follow.

 

[Matthias]

To be born of, to be created, etc.

With that knowledge you’re able to answer your question for yourself, without any input from me.

No, God registers as singular to me.

To Jesus, too.

But I was originally instructed by an evangelical pastor that the trinity, which includes God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, are all manifestations of the same god that exist together in heaven.

Replace “God” with “Father”.

Right, that's what I'm getting at. You have to understand that theology is not my field. So I may get the context wrong.

I understand that. It’s something that you need to work on.

The discussion wandered from historical reliability to the nature of Jesus. If we're going to have that discussion, it should be within the context that what is reported about him in the bible is true.

I agree. But what difference does it make if the historical reliability is questioned? Throw that out and we’re just spitballing whatever comes to mind.

Now about those post-biblical creeds …

No.

I agree.

 

[Mancunian]

How can a physical body be pieced back together after cremation? Ash back to flesh and bone? Brain rewired?

 

[Mancunian]

It's a pain when you lose one piece of a jigsaw puzzle. I would hate the job of accurately reconstructing billions of human bodies.

 

[Lambano]

How can a physical body be pieced back together after cremation? Ash back to flesh and bone? Brain rewired?

New creation. "Let there be life, and there was life."

 

[Mancunian]

And after all that work, sending most of them to a second death.

 

[Mancunian]

Why bother resurrecting people just to kill them, just leave them dead.
Will judgement give your God some perverse pleasure?

 

[Matthias]

Was Jesus created?

Knowing that the NT writers tell us that he was begotten, and knowing what being begotten means, what is your answer to your question? I’m asking you to tell me, Was Jesus created?

 

[Lambano]

The Athanasian creed affirms Jesus was fully human and fully divine.

What the hell that really means, I have no freakin' clue.

@Riven, going back to the Bible...

The NT authors are pretty much unanimous that Jesus is the Son of God.

What does that mean? What observable properties did Jesus have?

It is said he was observed to walk on water. Change water to wine. Cure a withered hand. Heal the sick. Raise the dead back to life. It is also said he ate and drank. (Doesn't say anything about going to the latrine, though.) He got tired and slept. He bled and died. And it says God raised him from the dead.

Who and what do you think he is?

No. I don't have to know everything in order to follow.

That is healthy.

 

[Mancunian]

When you really think about it, all of this can only be to satisfy God, which in actual fact makes God unloving and self-indulgent.

 

[Lambano]

Why bother resurrecting people just to kill them, just leave them dead.
Will judgement give your God some perverse pleasure?

There is always accountability. You know that.

 

[Mancunian]

There is always accountability. You know that.

Accountability for what though?
Simple disbelief isn't crime of the century, but to your God that's worse than murder?

We know born again Christians on death row believe that they're saved, yet God would resurrect a good law abiding citizen just to gloat and kill them just for disbelief?

That's not perfect justice in my humble opinion... That's just crazy.

 

[Sel@h]

How are you able to process anything around you without a brain?

Because we have a spiritual body which is way better than a flesh and blood body.

 

[Riven]

I agree. But what difference does it make if the historical reliability is questioned? Throw that out and we’re just spitballing whatever comes to mind.

Well, if the writers of the NT were embellishing or attempting to turn Jesus into a mythological figure by adding miracles that never happened, then we're having discussion around a figure that was never real. Which can be fun in the way it's fun to discuss the Greek gods, but it has no real impact on our lives.

@Riven, going back to the Bible...

The NT authors are pretty much unanimous that Jesus is the Son of God.

What does that mean? What observable properties did Jesus have?

It is said he was observed to walk on water. Change water to wine. Cure a withered hand. Heal the sick. Raise the dead back to life. It is also said he ate and drank. (Doesn't say anything about going to the latrine, though.) He got tired and slept. He bled and died. And it says God raised him from the dead.

Who and what do you think he is?

He's a contradiction of terms. He's able to do miracles, something others could not do. Which implies a certain level of divinity. In thr other hand, he was successfully killed by the Romans. Death implies that his body was human.

There's also the issue of Jesus standing before the people and saying "Before Abraham, I Am". Well... that seems to imply that he existed before Abraham. So what are we supposed to do with that statement?

 

[Mancunian]

Because we have a spiritual body which is way better than a flesh and blood body.

Usain Bolt may disagree.

 

[Sel@h]

Usain Bolt may disagree.

Never heard of him. But I have heard about Jesus.

 

[Mancunian]

Never heard of him. But I have heard about Jesus.

Can you tell me how your physical body functions differently to your spiritual body?

 

[Matthias]

Well, if the writers of the NT were embellishing or attempting to turn Jesus into a mythological figure by adding miracles that never happened, then we're having discussion around a figure that was never real.

That’s right. If we’re persuaded that’s what they did, then let’s toss our Bibles in the trash can and follow whatever “mythological Jesus” we cook up. Or throw in with the atheist.

Which can be fun in the way it's fun to discuss the Greek gods, but it has no real impact on our lives.

The Jesus the New Testament documents and discusses had a very real impact on the apostles and disciples of that Jesus.

He's a contradiction of terms. He's able to do miracles, something others could not do.

The prophets and the apostles were able to do miracles. Even unbelievers were able to do miracles.

Which implies a certain level of divinity.

Jesus is divine. What is the definition of divine?

What was the level of divinity of the prophets, the apostles, and Pharaoh’s magicians?

In thr other hand, he was successfully killed by the Romans. Death implies that his body was human.

He, not just his body, was killed by the Romans. Jesus was dead. Jesus was made alive again. That’s resurrection.

God has never died (and therefore has never been resurrected.)

There's also the issue of Jesus standing before the people and saying "Before Abraham, I Am". Well... that seems to imply that he existed before Abraham. So what are we supposed to do with that statement?

Believe it. Jesus preexisted his begetting. How is that possible? There are two ways, but it can’t have been both ways.

 

[Matthias]

@Riven make up a story about Jesus for me. Make it as fantastic and as dazzling as you can. Wow me with your embellishment. Don’t hold anything back. Make it a doozy.

***

(The joker’s story.)

Knock. Knock.

“Who’s there?”

“The Romans.”

“What do you want?”

“We’re here to torture you until we get the truth out of you about Jesus.”

“Whoa! I was just horsing around. I made up all that stuff about Jesus. I don’t believe a word of it.”

“Well knock it off. Some people might not know you’re conning them.”

“Sorry Romans. I was just having fun. I didn’t mean to mislead, hurt, or take advantage of anyone. I’m done with Jesus.”

P.S.

I don’t think I have to say it but I will -> the NT writers weren’t jokers. They didn’t embellish the story.

I don’t think you would be willing to be tortured or be killed for some wild story you concocted for me and knew wasn’t true.

 

[Mancunian]

Plenty of Muslims have done just that.