Conversation with An Atheist

[Mancunian]

How often have we seen throughout history
Men who have come in under the guise THIS is how we shall have peace
ONLY to bring blood upon all that would not enter into its peace covenant .
and woe wail , How deadly is it when they do so claiming it to even be of God
and merge state and church , or in this case WOR LD and church , with inclusivity as its religion .
More recently we see Hitler crying a thousand year reich of peace . DIDNT BODE too well
for those who resisted though , DID IT .
This is not new .
But with the power now of digital AI
i assure us all much blood will surely come upon the nations of this world .
And anything not complying to its inclusive peace , well
unable to buy or sell they will be and rounded up as well .
Man now has great power , enough to destroy himself as well as the world .
This world has about zero idea of what it has made its bed with .
The inclusive god and its ecumencal lets all be one , will soon become
CRUSADES of conform or die .

Do you know where I would start? To bring peace to the world you need to start with education. Teaching children to be suspicious and superstitious hasn't turned out well.
Children should have the same level of human rights that are afforded to adults. Children should have the right to a well balanced unbiased education, educators should be presenting children with facts, then maybe the parents of the future won't be passing down disinformation and continuing the vicious circle.
Faith schools need to be banned, the us and them mentality needs to be banished to history.
Muslims hating Jews, Jews hating Muslims. People blowing eachother to smithereens.... Over what?
My God's better than your God.
This is the promised land.
You're following a false God.
Christianity is harmless, so people say.... I think all religion is harmful.
The world would be a better place without the in fighting. We are all human beings doing the best we can. We could be better.
Wars over oil and territory, stupid nationalism and greed, killing eachother for what? For what exactly?
People looking down on others for stupid reasons, decent people who are subconsciously discriminating. For what?
We are all in the same boat, why can't we see that and get along?
EDUCATION.

 

[marks]

I'm not interested in the Bible and what it has to say. I'm interested in what you think about what an eternity of living might look like.

Do you think that you could ignore the fact that murderers and rapists are sharing heaven with you?

Do you think that you could put to one side the fact that good people are not sharing heaven with you?

Could you honestly spend an eternity under those circumstances?

I don't mind answering.

You've pointed to murderers and rapists for the examples of one's you wouldn't want to be with. Let me ask you . . . Where are these evils coming from, just the act as it is committed? Or is it that evil lives in the heart? And what of the man who hates, and in his heart he already knows, if it were in his hands to do, he would kill them? Though he lacks opportunity, or the courage to carry it out? That man would be both a coward and a murderer, wouldn't he be?

The ones who lust over their computer screens, who fantasize over raping the women they watch, are these ones you'd prefer to share eternity with?

I could go on with this, but the bottom line is that each of us, every one of us, is lost to sin, to the corruption that permeates us so every single one of us does what is evil. Some commit the acts, and others would if they could, but the same evil, the same rebelliousness against God, is behind it all.

The idea of "good people" and "bad people" is more of an expression of our own sliding scale of good and evil. A rich man may appear good as he gives millions of his billions to support the needy, while hiding the fact that his billions have come from slave labor.

A man helps a young woman cross the street, and onlookers applaud, failing to realize that for him it was purely an occasion to lust over her for longer still.

We all do things like this. Not necessarily exactly as my examples, but just the same, there is duplicity in all of us, pride, all manner of evil, twisted through our hearts in ways we can never escape.

Except that Jesus made the Way. He died, so that we could share with Him in His death, and share His burial, and resurrection, to be able to escape that hopeless life, delivered into a new life. No one comes into this life apart from Jesus Christ.

When we understand that sin isn't just about behavior, but it's about the corruption in our hearts, and when we understand that it's Jesus alone who frees us and gives us life, we are one, and the evil that once separated us is gone, replaced by the unity that Jesus gives to us. These who once would have killed each other in evil rages will live together in unity and love.

Jesus said that He is the only way, and those who will not come to Him for life will not enter into life. No one is immune from the corruption of sin. No one can enter eternal life without Jesus.

Much love!

 

[Mancunian]

I don't mind answering.

You've pointed to murderers and rapists for the examples of one's you wouldn't want to be with. Let me ask you . . . Where are these evils coming from, just the act as it is committed? Or is it that evil lives in the heart? And what of the man who hates, and in his heart he already knows, if it were in his hands to do, he would kill them? Though he lacks opportunity, or the courage to carry it out? That man would be both a coward and a murderer, wouldn't he be?

The ones who lust over their computer screens, who fantasize over raping the women they watch, are these ones you'd prefer to share eternity with?

I could go on with this, but the bottom line is that each of us, every one of us, is lost to sin, to the corruption that permeates us so every single one of us does what is evil. Some commit the acts, and others would if they could, but the same evil, the same rebelliousness against God, is behind it all.

The idea of "good people" and "bad people" is more of an expression of our own sliding scale of good and evil. A rich man may appear good as he gives millions of his billions to support the needy, while hiding the fact that his billions have come from slave labor.

A man helps a young woman cross the street, and onlookers applaud, failing to realize that for him it was purely an occasion to lust over her for longer still.

We all do things like this. Not necessarily exactly as my examples, but just the same, there is duplicity in all of us, pride, all manner of evil, twisted through our hearts in ways we can never escape.

Except that Jesus made the Way. He died, so that we could share with Him in His death, and share His burial, and resurrection, to be able to escape that hopeless life, delivered into a new life. No one comes into this life apart from Jesus Christ.

When we understand that sin isn't just about behavior, but it's about the corruption in our hearts, and when we understand that it's Jesus alone who frees us and gives us life, we are one, and the evil that once separated us is gone, replaced by the unity that Jesus gives to us. These who once would have killed each other in evil rages will live together in unity and love.

Jesus said that He is the only way, and those who will not come to Him for life will not enter into life. No one is immune from the corruption of sin. No one can enter eternal life without Jesus.

Much love!

I don't buy into the idea that we are all sinners and are inherently sinful. I don't think that sin is a thing. I think that promoting self loathing helps with the narrative but is completely wrong.
We should be grateful? Why should we? Some people have awful lives and have nothing to be sorry about, or to be grateful for.

 

[marks]

I don't buy into the idea that we are all sinners and are inherently sinful. I don't think that sin is a thing.

Do you agree that there is right and wrong?

Much love!

 

[Mancunian]

Do you agree that there is right and wrong?

Much love!

I can agree that there is a concept of right and wrong.
I can't agree that there is an objective right and wrong.

 

[marks]

I can agree that there is a concept of right and wrong.
I can't agree that there is an objective right and wrong.

Why do you think there is such a universal agreement over what constitutes right and wrong?

For instance, we would all say that you shouldn't just kill me for any or no reason, do you agree? Would we all say that no one should take our stuff?

What do you think?

Much love!

 

[Mancunian]

Why do you think there is such a universal agreement over what constitutes right and wrong?

For instance, we would all say that you shouldn't just kill me for any or no reason, do you agree? Would we all say that no one should take our stuff?

What do you think?

Much love!

I think that those rules have helped the survival of our species, we worked out that working together is beneficial. We are social animals and over time have developed a herd mentality... This has slightly gone wrong with nationalism and religious beliefs but on the whole we can see the benefits in not clubbing eachother to death.

 

[Dryhn]

And you need to face up to death. It's coming to us all.
No second chances, no perfect happy eternity, nothing.
I don't know why you find it so scary?

And you need to face up to death. It's coming to us all.
Really ? Oh wow, did not know that
No second chances, no perfect happy eternity, nothing.
Prove it
I don't know why you find it so scary?
The hope of seeing loved ones again & you don't, yep that's scary

 

[Wrangler]

Do you know where I would start? To bring peace to the world you need to start with education. Teaching children to be suspicious and superstitious hasn't turned out well.
Children should have the same level of human rights that are afforded to adults. Children should have the right to a well balanced unbiased education

The fatal flaw in your modern variation of Plato’s Republic is there is no such thing as unbiased education any more than there is unbiased truth. Truth is totally biased and I understand you have cognitive dissonance over this since you deny objective right and wrong. In addition, most parents want to educate their children according to their values and such parental rights as this must rank high in the scheme of human rights - no matter how offensive a faith based education is to you.

Who decides what this “unbiased“ education includes or excludes?

1. Columbus Day celebrates a hero who discovered half the globe or the Cultural Marxist made up “Native Peoples“ day honors the savage over the best civilization has to offer?
2. Colonialism spread the best civilization has to offer, raising the quality of life of indigenous peoples all over the world or something the West should be ashamed?
3. Race doesn’t exist or more powerfully identifies one‘s identity than any other demographic factor? There are 2 genders or 57 genders?
4. Slavery involved all peoples but was abolished by White people due to the effect of the Industrial Revolution, though still practiced illegally in non-White parts of the world or is a special sin of White people?
5. Capitalism. Friend or Foe to wealth creation?
6. Feminism signaled a great progress in human culture or proved to be more destructive than fascism and communism combined?
7. Literature syllabus of Homer, Virgil, Sophocles, Geoffrey Chaucer, Dante, Milton, Shakespeare, Locke, Rousseau, Voltaire, Adam Smith, Melville, Dickens, Twain or equally include all intersectionality demographic writings, downplaying dead white men?
8. American Exceptionalism is why America is the greatest force for good the world has ever known or America is a racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic Great Satan since it came into existence by exploiting natives on the back of Black Slaves?
9. Western Civilization is superior to all others in every measurable way due to the conglomeration of: Greek culture; Judeo-Christian religion; Roman military conquest, political and economic stability; British law, language and maritime trading coupled with Navy power; and American ingenuity or all cultures are equal?
10. Men invented almost everything, with 90% of patented inventions coming from American men or let’s not educate people on this biased fact?
11. Christianity is the greatest historical force for education in human history or 1984 government always had educated its citizens better than any other institution? (That is, Religion played a minor role in human development?)
12. Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior of the world as evidenced by countless miracles, billions of testimonies, including being resurrected from the dead or probably never existed/is a myth.

You believe children are rational decision makers and should be able to drive, consent to sex, enter into contract keep and bare ams, all part of rights adult have? Wow!

 

[marks]

I think that those rules have helped the survival of our species, we worked out that working together is beneficial. We are social animals and over time have developed a herd mentality... This has slightly gone wrong with nationalism and religious beliefs but on the whole we can see the benefits in not clubbing eachother to death.

Morality is learned?

Have you had the opportunity to raise children? My experience is that from the youngest age of understanding, every child knows stealing is wrong, provable by taking something away from them. They will vigorously protest, "Hey! That's mine!" They understand the right of ownership, and that it's wrong to steal.

And in pretty much the same way, from the earliest age of understanding, they will steal from others, no one needing to teach them, they just do it.

To me this is a simple demonstration that the knowledge of right and wrong is already there, along with rebelliousness against it.

I agree with you to a point, that some morality is learned, societal rules of cooperation.

As far as the benefits of not clubbing each other to death, what is the benefit of losing your life for the chance to save someone else?

Someone who leaps into the flood to try to save someone being swept away, knowing they may lose their own life, and not save the other's, will risk everything just to try. Why? Where is the evolutionary benefit?

And it seems to me there is an awful lot of clubbing each other to death, both on a personal level and a national level.

If we've worked out that these ways are better, why don't we do them? Why is it that every prison is overcapacity with those Society says are wrong, those they've caught, at least! We know so many get away with their crimes.

The thing is there is often a very real benefit in clubbing others to death. To take their food to give to your family. To take their wives so you can have dozens of children to bring in your crops. To take their land, so you can spread out more.

Do you know what I'm saying? Pragmatism, evolutionary needs, don't always mesh well with morality.

Much love!