Sola Fide

[FHII]

Come one, come all!

Wikipedia (abbreviated):

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine....

I am a strong supporter of justification by faith alone. I have many verses. Here's two:

Romans 4:5-6 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

[tabletalk]

Come one, come all!

Wikipedia (abbreviated):

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine....

I am a strong supporter of justification by faith alone. I have many verses. Here's two:

Romans 4:5-6 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

Maybe defining the Greek word for faith will help. Also, does the word *belief* mean the same as faith? This can get complicated, I think, as the book of John uses belief in Jesus as equal to obtaining eternal life. So, the words faith and belief might be interchangeable depending on the context of the particular Scripture?

 

[FHII]

Maybe defining the Greek word for faith will help. Also, does the word *belief* mean the same as faith? This can get complicated, I think, as the book of John uses belief in Jesus as equal to obtaining eternal life. So, the words faith and belief might be interchangeable depending on the context of the particular Scripture?

I suppose that's a good place to start. Were you going to give the greek definition?

 

[bbyrd009]

So, the words faith and belief might be interchangeable depending on the context of the particular Scripture?

that does seem to be an issue; pisteo is often translated "belief" now, but faith and belief are not synonymous imo

 

[DPMartin]

Maybe defining the Greek word for faith will help. Also, does the word *belief* mean the same as faith? This can get complicated, I think, as the book of John uses belief in Jesus as equal to obtaining eternal life. So, the words faith and belief might be interchangeable depending on the context of the particular Scripture?

no you don't have to define anything everything is understood in the argument between faith and works and it isn't complicated at all.

without faith there is no works that are of that faith (belief/trust). no one acts on what they don't believe or trust. in the case of faith in and of Christ the works are also of Christ. so without Christ there is no works that are of the same faith. hence if there is any reasoning to show works justifies, its false. it's Christ that Justifies, and only Christ that Justifies the faith and that the works are of Christ.


1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.



note that the works that survive the fire are of the faith, the foundation Jesus Christ.

 

[Helen]

It looks like the start of a good discussion. I think I agree with @bbyrd009 ..the Devils believe and tremble.....but they are not saved by faith.
But, I have not checked the root meanings of the words in the verse.

I do totally believe that it is by "faith alone". God took 4000 years to show man that no amount of works could do it!

 

[bbyrd009]

everything is understood in the argument between faith and works and it isn't complicated at all.

hmm sure seems to be an endless debate there lol

 

[Acadia]

Most of the world's religions teach that mankind must do something to attain salvation, true Christianity is indeed different. We know from Scripture that salvation is not "of ourselves", and that we can add nothing to the gift of salvation, which is the grace of God, or it is no more grace.

 

[twinc]

It looks like the start of a good discussion. I think I agree with @bbyrd009 ..the Devils believe and tremble.....but they are not saved by faith.
But, I have not checked the root meanings of the words in the verse.

I do totally believe that it is by "faith alone". God took 4000 years to show man that no amount of works could do it!

what do you mean 4000 years ago = when and where was that for it seems the Jews were still asking "what must I d0 to be saved" - imho good works do not and will not go unrewarded in heaven or hell - twinc

 

[Helen]

what do you mean 4000 years ago = when and where was that for it seems the Jews were still asking "what must I d0 to be saved" - imho good works do not and will not go unrewarded in heaven or hell - twinc

Hi twinc. I didn't write 4000 years "ago"...I said- "it took God 4000 years to show man.." ie. (OT people...) that the blood of bulls and goats couldn't do it....man couldn't keep God's commandments...all that the blood sacrifices all the spotless lambs could do, was to cover sin...it could not remove sin.
Then , after 4000 years of letting man learn that they could not keep the law, God sent His Beloved Son..The Last Pure Spotless Lamb, to be slain.
. . . . . . . . .✟ . . . .

 

[aspen]

Isn't faith in action, works? I think James would agree with this idea

 

[bbyrd009]

and away we go lol

once again Scripture reflects all sides of a matter, and we reveal our hearts by what we choose to read imo

 

[FHII]

Isn't faith in action, works? I think James would agree with this idea

Good question and I am sure James would agree. I don't and I don't believe Paul would either.

Alot of it dpends on what we are saying works are. I do believe there is a difference between spiritual works and works of the flesh.

Works of the flesh are in no way connected to faith. Not even as an action or as evidence.

 

[aspen]

Good question and I am sure James would agree. I don't and I don't believe Paul would either.

Alot of it dpends on what we are saying works are. I do believe there is a difference between spiritual works and works of the flesh.

Works of the flesh are in no way connected to faith. Not even as an action or as evidence.

I am going to need more clarification on your point regarding Paul.

I am going to be upfront here - my reasoning for questioning Sola fide is similar to why I question LDS beliefs about the role of emotion in spiritual decision making. They often make a distinction between a regular, human emotion and a 'burning in the bosom' which they attribute to God and use as a testimony for the validity of the Book of Mormon. I recognize no distinction.

In the same way, I have a hard time distinguishing works resulting from faith; works resulting from good intentions; and, simply works performed. I do understand the difference between hedonism and self sacrifice, however.

I tend to see faith and works as inseparable and necessary for all relationships, including God. I also see good works leading to healthy faith and vice verse - it simply depends on which part of the animal you happen to see first.

 

[Acadia]

More on salvation by faith in Christ alone:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:14-18

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

"Then said they unto him, 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?'"

Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'" - John 6:27-29

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:38-40

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in His Son. (Romans 6:23)

We do not go about to "establish our own righteousness." (Romans 10:3)

Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe. (Romans 10:4)

Christ is our Sabbath. We who have believed have entered into that rest. (Hebrews 4:1-5)

We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8)

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. - (2 Peter 3:9)

Repentance from "dead works" and faith toward God. - (Hebrews 6:1)

By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified, but only by faith in Christ. (Galatians 2:16)

Also read Romans 4, Romans 5, Galatians 5, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 11

Our salvation is entirely by faith in Christ and what He has done. (The Gospel) 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

 

[FHII]

I am going to need more clarification on your point regarding Paul.

I am going to be upfront here - my reasoning for questioning Sola fide is similar to why I question LDS beliefs about the role of emotion in spiritual decision making. They often make a distinction between a regular, human emotion and a 'burning in the bosom' which they attribute to God and use as a testimony for the validity of the Book of Mormon. I recognize no distinction.

In the same way, I have a hard time distinguishing works resulting from faith; works resulting from good intentions; and, simply works performed. I do understand the difference between hedonism and self sacrifice, however.

I tend to see faith and works as inseparable and necessary for all relationships, including God. I also see good works leading to healthy faith and vice verse - it simply depends on which part of the animal you happen to see first.

There are many verses written by Paul that address the issue. I am sure you know them all. The ones I have in mind come from Romans 4. Paul says if Abraham was justified by works, he could glory, but not before God. He the says that those who work the reward is not of grace, but debt.

But lets go back to Abraham being able to have glory, but not before God [not in the sight of God]. This is saying Abraham doing works looks pretty good in the sight of men, but God doesn't consider it. It was his belief and trust in God that was accounted as righteous. (There's a funny side story in that.... Maybe later).

Next, look at this statement James said:
James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Its an interesting statement which ponders an imaginary conversation in which James ckearly once again says you can't have faith without having works. But remember what I brought out about Abraham. He would be justified by works only in the eyes of men. Offhandedly James follws suite. James said he would show his faith TO THIS MAN by his works.

If thats what you want to do, fine..

Look at the first third of Mat 6. Jesus insructs us to pray, give and fast in secret. When its done publically you get a certain reward. But done in private... Then God rewards you openly.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is saying Abraham doing works looks pretty good in the sight of men, but God doesn't consider it.

sorry, i missed the ref here, what v for this? ty

 

[H. Richard]

Saying that there is a difference between words will be used by the works crowd to slip in works. The words belief, faith, trust and confidence all mean the same thing. Each can define the others. What is missing is the idea that all 4 are spiritual in that they have no tangible physical attributes.

When Paul writes we are to walk in the spirit it simple means we are to walk in belief, faith, trust and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross.

It really troubles me that the religious want to hang their version of good works around the necks of God's children and they use the Law to do it. I am a firm believer that a child of God will do what they are lead to do by the Holy Spirit. But that does no satisfy the works crowd because they want to define the work they should do.

 

[bbyrd009]

But that does no satisfy the works crowd because they want to define the work they should do.

this has one too many "they's" in it to be completely clear, but where is anyone telling anyone else what works are required for justification, as if that is even possible, which i doubt?

 

[bbyrd009]

But remember what I brought out about Abraham. He would be justified by works only in the eyes of men.

16and said, "By Myself I have sworn," this is the LORD's declaration: "Because you have done this thing and have not withheld your only son,

ya...no.