Sola Fide

[Marymog]

By the way... Do you remember what I said about infant death and going to heaven? I said I don't know! Do not misrepresent me again.

Hi FHII,

Fair enough. I inadvertently represented your opinion on infants going to heaven after death. To help clear this up can you give me a clear answer for the others I mentioned: adolescents (before the age of reason), adults with such a low mental capacity that they can't comprehend the concept of God/Jesus, anyone that has never heard of Jesus (through no fault of their own) and anyone that is not Christian.

I misrepresented you? Well now....Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

i don't think so, even dogs and cats can act willful. We forget this--and of course school is not for learning, or this would be covered pretty early--but you could not look in a mirror and see "yourself" up until about age 18 months or so. As strange as that sounds at first. Prolly more likely that that is when you "fall" than when you get a soul though i guess. We are born a "soul" i think

We are born with a soul is what I think you are saying.

If so, I agree. Therefor when an infant dies they are saved thru grace which is proof that the faith alone theory is not logical.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Thats stupid. Not even worth addtessing.

Translation: I don't have a good response to your factual and historically accurate statement that is based on scripture so I refuse to discuss this matter anymore.

Devils don't have faith at all and grace comes by faith WITHOUT WORKS.

I guess that depends on how YOU define faith. If we refer to the dictionary on what faith means....you would be 100% wrong.

Mary

 

[FHII]

To help clear this up can you give me a clear answer for the others I mentioned: adolescents (before the age of reason), adults with such a low mental capacity that they can't comprehend the concept of God/Jesus, anyone that has never heard of Jesus (through no fault of their own) and anyone that is not Christian.

This is the last time I am going to tell you this. As I stated before I don't know! I am npt doing what you are doing, which is making up an answer based on your own feelings. That's foolish and I refuse to do that no matter how much you try to force it.

I certainly hope the Lord will have mercy on them but I don't have a verse that says he will.

I misrepresented you? Well now....Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Absolutely not.

 

[Marymog]

This is the last time I am going to tell you this. As I stated before I don't know! I am npt doing what you are doing, which is making up an answer based on your own feelings. That's foolish and I refuse to do that no matter how much you try to force it.

I certainly hope the Lord will have mercy on them but I don't have a verse that says he will.

Absolutely not.

Let me get this clear. You are struggling with the idea that a adolescent may NOT have a soul?
An adult with such a low mental capacity that they can't comprehend the concept of God/Jesus may not have a soul?
Anyone that has never heard of Jesus (through no fault of their own) and anyone that is not Christian may not have a soul?

When does the soul enter the body?????

ABSOLUTELY NOT???? SERIOUSLY???

You didn't misrepresent what I said in post #61, 62, 80, 115, 120 and 121??? Really??? Did you not read what I wrote in those post? Did you not understand what I said in those post? What is your reason?

Curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

We are born with a soul is what I think you are saying.

yes. or at least close enough. I tend to think of people as "souls," ever since i learned the thing about all of the matter that makes up the entire human race could fit in a sugar cube if all of the air was squeezed out :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Therefor when an infant dies they are saved thru grace which is proof that the faith alone theory is not logical.

dunno about proof, i have mostly stopped looking for proofs of things, and tend to see peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart. So iow i am skepticla of Christians who insist upon faith alone; yet faith alone is all that is required--as long as one understands that faith will cause a change of mind, and a change of actions, which generally seems to be absent, and even resisted.

 

[Marymog]

dunno about proof, i have mostly stopped looking for proofs of things, and tend to see peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart. So iow i am skepticla of Christians who insist upon faith alone; yet faith alone is all that is required--as long as one understands that faith will cause a change of mind, and a change of actions, which generally seems to be absent, and even resisted.

Dear sir,

I also am skeptical of Christians who insist on faith alone. That belief is OPPOSITE of what scripture says. If someone practices or preaches what is OPPOSITE of scripture then one could say they are anti-Christian.

You are completely and utterly and 100% wrong that "faith will cause a change of mind...change of actions". I have a daughter who is 28 years old who has FAITH but none of her actions show it. If I, Marymog, have personally experienced this then there are probably AT LEAST a million more people in the world who have had the same experience with their own children.

It has been my experience that your statement is 100% false. Your statement is cute and 1960's hippy like...but false.

Besides that...how can one understand that "faith will cause a change of mind...and actions"? If faith changes ones mind and actions then you have no control over it. It just happens. Doesn't it?

My two cents worth....Mary

 

[Marymog]

yes. or at least close enough. I tend to think of people as "souls," ever since i learned the thing about all of the matter that makes up the entire human race could fit in a sugar cube if all of the air was squeezed out :)

Dear sir,

Close enough? What does that mean?

Are we born with a soul or not?

Curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

I have a daughter who is 28 years old who has FAITH but none of her actions show it.

ha--her actions show what she has faith in

she has a "belief," completely diff thing

 

[bbyrd009]

It has been my experience that your statement is 100% false. Your statement is cute and 1960's hippy like...but false.

then it is as false for you as it is true for me, unless you got some Scrip?

 

[bbyrd009]

If faith changes ones mind and actions then you have no control over it.

no kidding lol

or hmm, control implies force of will, mind, mind that has not been changed, etc

go the first way imo, but count the cost first. i am talking about walking out your front door with no extra clothes or money, and going--walking--to another town before you land somewhere. And eating what they feed you.

or bam stick with your beliefs

 

[bbyrd009]

It just happens. Doesn't it?

imo no, faith is an action verb

 

[Marymog]

ha--her actions show what she has faith in

she has a "belief," completely diff thing

Dear sir,

Since you did not complete your sentences I do not understand what you just wrote. My point is:

My daughter has a BELIEF in Jesus but not FAITH in Jesus. She does NOT act on His commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES THE WILL (actions) of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Those who ACT (not faith alone) on the commandments of God will go to heaven.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

then it is as false for you as it is true for me, unless you got some Scrip?

Dear sir,

Where is your scripture to back up your theory? Or is this just another one of those "IMO's"?

Here is mine:
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

As you can see their ACTIONS were not complete. Their limited ACTIONS were not good enough. They partially completed Gods commandments but they did not complete ALL of them.

Just like my daughter. She has FAITH but limited or VERY FEW actions. Her limited ACTIONS are not good enough. Which backs up my statement: You are completely and utterly and 100% wrong that "faith will cause a change of mind...change of actions".

Faith WILL NOT cause a change of mind. It takes MORE than faith.

Respectfully...Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear sir,

Since you did not complete your sentences I do not understand what you just wrote. My point is:

My daughter has a BELIEF in Jesus but not FAITH in Jesus. She does NOT act on His commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES THE WILL (actions) of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Those who ACT (not faith alone) on the commandments of God will go to heaven.

Mary

Hi Mary,

I'm reading along and you say the above and bb says that faith is an action very, which is the same as your saying that we are to do the will of the Father.

Do you agree with each other?
I'm confuse, sorry.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear sir,

Where is your scripture to back up your theory? Or is this just another one of those "IMO's"?

Here is mine:
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

As you can see their ACTIONS were not complete. Their limited ACTIONS were not good enough. They partially completed Gods commandments but they did not complete ALL of them.

Just like my daughter. She has FAITH but limited or VERY FEW actions. Her limited ACTIONS are not good enough. Which backs up my statement: You are completely and utterly and 100% wrong that "faith will cause a change of mind...change of actions".

Faith WILL NOT cause a change of mind. It takes MORE than faith.

Respectfully...Mary

Are you saying there's a set number of "action" that God requires for us to be saved?

Faith SHOULD cause a change of mind.
Faith means we trust the one we have faith in.
If you trust a person, you will follow what they say or teach.

What could be MORE than faith?

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary,

I'm reading along and you say the above and bb says that faith is an action very, which is the same as your saying that we are to do the will of the Father.
Do you agree with each other?
I'm confuse, sorry.

My point is what "action" is good enough for Him?

Some did prophesy and cast out demons in His name and do many mighty works in your name. But that action wasn't good enough. He still said, depart from me, I never knew you.

Maybe BB and I are agreeing and I just don't know it. They way he writes is VERY confusing. When I re-read his post (#147) I think maybe we are agreeing? The way he writes, with incomplete sentences and misspelled words and incomplete sentence structures, makes his statements very confusing to me.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

I do not understand what you just wrote.

her actions show what she has faith in
and
she has a "belief," which is a completely different thing

 

[bbyrd009]

My daughter has a BELIEF in Jesus but not FAITH in Jesus.

deja vu