Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[bbyrd009]

Okay, can you then explain away Isa 9:6 -7
I have quoted it about three time over the last week...( not to you though)

i would say that the words chosen to translate the original are suggesting something that was not intended, but surely a rabbi would have a more complete answer, and i seriously doubt that a Jew believes that the Son is God, even though Isaiah is approved Torah. You might read the verse in the Lex for a beginning understanding, Isaiah 9:6 Lexicon: For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace., and i would like to stress once again that if you believe "Jesus" is God that is fine with me, but in my experience Trinity doctrine is a bludgeon used to coerce the ignorant into accepting a religious sect's pov or (by inference) risk being shunned by God. If you can witness any other fruit, or point, to the doctrine, i'd love to hear it.

Iow in practice it becomes a way to say "we have God, and you do not."

The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

how can the Father, the King, also be a Prince?

 

[bbyrd009]

There should be no opposition. Correct?

I came, not to bring peace, but a sword

 

[bbyrd009]

No bb

Either Luke told the truth about everything or we cannot trust him about anything.

ah, glad this came back up, because i got an answer while i was out. It is quite mundane and anticlimactic, like truth generally is, and the "truth" here likely runs along the lines of something similar to Nazareth not being an actual town 1st century, but nonetheless still an area known as "Nazareth," at least to the locals, and fwiw maybe called something completely different by everyone else.
Naz
i do not doubt Luke, and i also do not doubt that it is at least possible that if you were to have to prove that "Nazareth" existed 1st century you would fail

 

[bbyrd009]

Either Luke told the truth about everything or we cannot trust him about anything.

this is "A or notA" thinking, see, and life is not like that. We recognize "two sides" to a story, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

Back to Jesus.
If He's not God, you're worshipping a man.
What about commandment no. 1?

ha who told you to be worshipping Jesus anyway? Worship God. Christ is the Bread of Life; you're going to worship bread?

 

[GodsGrace]

ah, glad this came back up, because i got an answer while i was out. It is quite mundane and anticlimactic, like truth generally is, and the "truth" here likely runs along the lines of something similar to Nazareth not being an actual town 1st century, but nonetheless still an area known as "Nazareth," at least to the locals, and fwiw maybe called something completely different by everyone else.
Naz
i do not doubt Luke, and i also do not doubt that it is at least possible that if you were to have to prove that "Nazareth" existed 1st century you would fail

Can't be both!

 

[Stranger]

in your interpretation it might, but you are not God, and there are valid, Scriptural positions that refute "Catholic, Trinity" etc, as you already know. I wasn't aware that you were Catholic?

in your interpretation it might, but you are not God, and there are valid, Scriptural positions that refute "Catholic, Trinity" etc, as you already know. I wasn't aware that you were Catholic?

Oh gee...I am not God. What a revelation that is.

No, I am not aware of Scriptures that refute the Trinity. Educate me. Please.

Oh, yes I am Catholic.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

this is "A or notA" thinking, see, and life is not like that. We recognize "two sides" to a story, etc

There's not two sides to THIS story.
Either Jesus is God
Or He's not.

If you believe He's not,
Could you explain all the prophecies Jesus fulfilled?

Do we need a list?

 

[bbyrd009]

Is our faith reasonable?

ok, this is a rerun, and i'm feeling that you are not respecting my time here now, as i have already posted a search link for this. Your faith might be reasonable to you, but that is a sign to me. i would go peruse the link iiwy ok. Reasonable, rational faith is not of God

 

[GodsGrace]

ha who told you to be worshipping Jesus anyway? Worship God. Christ is the Bread of Life; you're going to worship bread?

Father is God
Jesus is an enlightened man sent by God.
Are we close?
You're so mysterious.

 

[GodsGrace]

S

ok, this is a rerun, and i'm feeling that you are not respecting my time here now, as i have already posted a search link for this. Your faith might be reasonable to you, but that is a sign to me. i would go peruse the link iiwy ok. Reasonable, rational faith is not of God

Sorry BB.
I don't do links.
I like to talk to humans.
If you don't have time, I understand.

 

[Stranger]

ha who told you to be worshipping Jesus anyway? Worship God. Christ is the Bread of Life; you're going to worship bread?

You are such a stupid muslim.

(Luke 17:15-16) "And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks:..."

The 'feet' that this one feel down at, were the feet of God. Which happened to be the feet of Jesus. Yes, we worship Jesus Christ as God.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

ok, this is a rerun, and i'm feeling that you are not respecting my time here now, as i have already posted a search link for this. Your faith might be reasonable to you, but that is a sign to me. i would go peruse the link iiwy ok. Reasonable, rational faith is not of God

If God is reasonable
Why wouldn't belief in Him be reasonable???

 

[bbyrd009]

After he put his hand on jesus' wound, what did he say?
My Lord AND my GOD.

Do you think Thomas knew what he was saying?

look, much finer minds than mine, who seek Christ, dispute that translation,

2. Whether Christ is called God must be determined from John 1:1; John 20:28; 1 John 5:20; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8f, etc.; the matter is still in dispute among theologians cf. Grimm, Institutio theologiae dogmaticae, edition 2, p. 228ff (and the discussion (on Romans 9:5) by Professors Dwight and Abbot in the Journal of the Society for Biblical Literature, etc. as above, especially, pp. 42ff, 113ff).

and imo this is a personal decision that i should not be having a say in imo. We are debating an imponderable, and i have already overstated my case. I might suggest that when the Spirit points out to you that you have disqualified someone in the future because they are playing the First Son to your Second Son (of the Vineyard Owner), iow calling someone "lost" because they are telling you that they do not agree with you, and really no other valid reason, that maybe then we could revisit this. The perspective turns good people into hypocrites, in my experience

 

[Stranger]

I came, not to bring peace, but a sword

That is right muslim. The sword for you.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Could we trust anyone?

"Believe no one, not even me, unless what they are telling you fits with your own understanding" etcetc. By all means be trusting of everyone, and don't trust people who abuse trust imo

 

[GodsGrace]

look, much finer minds than mine, who seek Christ, dispute that translation,

2. Whether Christ is called God must be determined from John 1:1; John 20:28; 1 John 5:20; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8f, etc.; the matter is still in dispute among theologians cf. Grimm, Institutio theologiae dogmaticae, edition 2, p. 228ff (and the discussion (on Romans 9:5) by Professors Dwight and Abbot in the Journal of the Society for Biblical Literature, etc. as above, especially, pp. 42ff, 113ff).

and imo this is a personal decision that i should not be having a say in imo. We are debating an imponderable, and i have already overstated my case. I might suggest that when the Spirit points out to you that you have disqualified someone in the future because they are playing the First Son to your Second Son (of the Vineyard Owner), iow calling someone "lost" because they are telling you that they do not agree with you, and really no other valid reason, that maybe then we could revisit this. The perspective turns good people into hypocrites, in my experience

When did I ever say you're lost?
Are you Muslim?
You listed Christian.
I do believe that should be changed.
You are not properly representing yourself.
Must go.

 

[bbyrd009]

I was taught the Bible.

a shame, and a crime imo. Me too. Not a single poseur pastor to counsel us in the way of Paul, so that now we must even argue the meaning of "doctrine," which our def is crap compared to Paul's

 

[Stranger]

"Believe no one, not even me, unless what they are telling you fits with your own understanding" etcetc. By all means be trusting of everyone, and don't trust people who abuse trust imo

I have never believed you. You're a muslim and cannot be trusted.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

It's rather sweet that you know everything about me.
But, really, you know nothing.

You believe everybody else thinks they know it all because YOU think you know it all.
Like presuming you know me and how I came to believe what I believe.

i'm afraid you misinterpreted my opening statement there, i merely mean to say that Paul expressly did not do what you and i both did