Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[GodsGrace]

No, so the Scripture says.

Stranger

Thanks Stranger.

I make no rules.
Some here seem to be making up their very own rules and their own meanings for important words.
Like what Christianity means, for instance.

So....

They must think EVERYONE does this!

 

[Helen]

well, you are "sure" that Jesus was God, too, ok, and i am not. But i doubt it is that big of a deal tbh.

Okay, can you then explain away Isa 9:6 -7
I have quoted it about three time over the last week...( not to you though)

6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will perform this."

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

my guess here would be that they are both true enough, and one is speaking to the literal/logical, while the other speaks to the spiritual

No bb

Either Luke told the truth about everything or we cannot trust him about anything.

Our faith has to be based on something.
Is our faith reasonable?
Or are we just a bunch of idiots?

Thomas had doubts.
Did he really see Jesus resurrected?
Could we trust him??

After he put his hand on jesus' wound, what did he say?
My Lord AND my GOD.

Do you think Thomas knew what he was saying?
Could we trust Thomas?

Could we trust anyone?

 

[Stranger]

Thanks Stranger.

I make no rules.
Some here seem to be making up their very own rules and their own meanings for important words.
Like what Christianity means, for instance.

So....

They must think EVERYONE does this!

Amen sister. We have the Spirit and we have the Book given us by the Spirit. Why so many think these should be opposed is beyond me.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

well, you are "sure" that Jesus was God, too, ok, and i am not. But i doubt it is that big of a deal tbh.

is that a picture of Linda Ronstat? Are you Italian? ty

Sorry, didn't see this.

Linda Ronstadt wishes she looked like that!
It's a fake.
I'm American, but born in Italy and living here now.
American culturally...grew up in NYC

Back to Jesus.
If He's not God, you're worshipping a man.
What about commandment no. 1????

Catholics are always condemned for "worshipping" Mary.
What are you doing?

 

[amadeus]

Your eyes to see, should never disagree with the Book. If they do, then your are believing a lie. That is what the Book is for.

Stranger

The "eyes" to see are the Holy Ghost in us and therefore they cannot and do not disagree with God. The problem and the reason believing people do disagree with each other, is that they mix up their spiritual vision with their carnal vision and the result is mixed conclusion. This is confusion of which God is NOT the author.

"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:10

"Ought not" but unfortunately often is. All of us as we are the approach should become less double-minded. The carnal of man should be decreasing while the spiritual of God should be increasing.

 

[amadeus]

Very beautiful.
You must be very good at doing your sermons.

I used to try to prepare beforehand something to say until I realized that God seldom allowed me to use that preparation. Now, when I study and pray in the A.M. I just ask God to help me move always according to His will rather than my own. It works better when I really do place it in His hands.

I'm a little worried now because some here do not believe Jesus is God.
I'm a traditional Christian.
Church taught by two big denominational churches.

From traditional teaching has come a lot of truth, God's Truth, that people possess. The difficulty is when we allow traditions get in God's Way.

I'm not much for learning from the holy spirit although He is the one that has enlightened those who teach.....well, not all these days.

Sister, if you know anything at all correctly with regard to God and the things of God all of that which is correct came from the Holy Spirit, even if you did not realize it.

Jesus Himself said that we must be born from above to see the Kingdom.
I find that everyone wants to be saved,
But not everyone wants to live in the kingdom.
IOW they want Jesus as savior
But not as Lord.

People want to ride the fence to obtain their desires in this world as well as entrance into the next one with God. God may allow some of that for a while but eventually He will do what with them?

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

And what did the Apostle Paul about us?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

So yes.
We are to be like Jesus because He's God and has come to show us the way to the kingdom,,,which starts right here.

This is certainly the place it all begins. If we work so hard for ourselves with only occasional thoughts about Him, why should we expect to ever get to a better place? What again was our "reasonable service"?

 

[GodsGrace]

I used to try to prepare beforehand something to say until I realized that God seldom allowed me to use that preparation. Now, when I study and pray in the A.M. I just ask God to help me move always according to His will rather than my own. It works better when I really do place it in His hands.



From traditional teaching has come a lot of truth, God's Truth, that people possess. The difficulty is when we allow traditions get in God's Way.


Sister, if you know anything at all correctly with regard to God and the things of God all of that which is correct came from the Holy Spirit, even if you did not realize it.



People want to ride the fence to obtain their desires in this world as well as entrance into the next one with God. God may allow some of that for a while but eventually He will do what with them?

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

And what did the Apostle Paul about us?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1



This is certainly the place it all begins. If we work so hard for ourselves with only occasional thoughts about Him, why should we expect to ever get to a better place? What again was our "reasonable service"?

I was taught the Bible. I guess some traditions must come in to it. Maybe.
I met Jesus when I was about 28. Many years ago.
I had never read the Bible.
But I did desire to know more, although everything I mportant I already knew.
Like, for instance, to trust Him.

 

[OzSpen]

Well, actually, there was only one untl the reformation.
The Orthodox split about the year 1,000 AD but they kept all the doctrine and only denied the authority of the Pope.

Protestantism has split into THOUSANDS of churches (counting the non-denominational)
precisely because we do not study and agree of doctrine.

How many have I heard that follow the Holy Spirit? So why doesn't the Holy Spirit teach everyone the same? Why do people come up with their own ideas and theories?

Maybe we SHOULD be depending on theologists who know the original Greek and who have studied the culture of the time and if you listen to them, you would find very few disagreements until the very recent time when Easy Believism has crept into the Church. Wolves in sheep's clothing coming at the end of time when Christianity will be washed down and no longer recognizable from the beginnng times.

We have a poster here who believes Jesus was born a man and became God. I've never even heard of that before. Very original. However incorrect.

So yes. I believe we should attend a denominationa Church who has theologians who understand the bible and teach it in that way.

THEN, whatever message we get from God personally, and I also have gotten one,
That is OUR business and is not to be considered anything to be taught in general.

Lastly, I also say that anything God tells us MUST adhere to what is written in scripture.

Otherewise, we might have another Joseph Smith....

GodsGrace,

Being a former RC, you are probably aware that there are denominations within the RCC. For example:

• Catholic Christians are mostly "Roman Catholic"; yet some groups still call themselves "Catholic," but are no longer united with Rome.
  • The "Old Catholic Church" broke away in 1870, disagreeing with the decrees from the First Vatican Council about "papal infallibility."
  • Various groups of "Traditionalist Catholics" or "Tridentine Catholics" broke after 1965, disagreeing with reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
  • Other groups of "Progressive Catholics" broke since 1965, thinking the reforms instituted by Vatican II did not go far enough.(source)

This doesn't compare with the tens of thousands in Protestantism.

Gordon Conwell Seminary has a chart here of many of the Protestant denominations. In 2012, the estimate was 43,000 Protestant denominations.

I'm ashamed that such a situation has developed. Why can't we have a group of Christians (a church group) that may have some people who may disagree on some points of theology, but they can still be part of one denomination? Do you think that all of the Christians on this forum, with different theologies, would be able to meet together as one denomination, worship together, do evangelism together, and love one another?

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace,

Being a former RC, you are probably aware that there are denominations within the RCC. For example:

• Catholic Christians are mostly "Roman Catholic"; yet some groups still call themselves "Catholic," but are no longer united with Rome.
  • The "Old Catholic Church" broke away in 1870, disagreeing with the decrees from the First Vatican Council about "papal infallibility."
  • Various groups of "Traditionalist Catholics" or "Tridentine Catholics" broke after 1965, disagreeing with reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
  • Other groups of "Progressive Catholics" broke since 1965, thinking the reforms instituted by Vatican II did not go far enough.(source)

This doesn't compare with the tens of thousands in Protestantism.

Gordon Conwell Seminary has a chart here of many of the Protestant denominations. In 2012, the estimate was 43,000 Protestant denominations.

I'm ashamed that such a situation has developed. Why can't we have a group of Christians (a church group) that may have some people who may disagree on some points of theology, but they can still be part of one denomination? Do you think that all of the Christians on this forum, with different theologies, would be able to meet together as one denomination, worship together, do evangelism together, and love one another?

Oz

This is definitely not what Jesus intended.
OTOH, the Catholic Church had strayed so far from original Christianity that something had to happen .
I'm very torn about this Reformation in 1,500.

I believe Christianity is being diminished in order for it to fit better into our new and liberal society.
We are in the post modern era...what do we expect?

As far as I can see, there are some new concepts which are ruining the church:

Word of Faith
Ask for it, you'll get it.
The santa Claus effect.

Hyper grace or easy believism
You "accept" Jesus and that's it.
Faith only -- no works necessary.
They are an insult to God! Because Jesus did it all.!!

If we could get by those two, the rest could be reconciled.
IMO

The Catholic Church is a different story.

 

[Helen]

Do you think that all of the Christians on this forum, with different theologies, would be able to meet together as one denomination, worship together, do evangelism together, and love one another?

I do...if we continue to pray for that day to come.
Sadly it may only be when we all of us have our backs to the wall, and the enemy in our faces, then maybe all will get the revelation that we are in the same Body.. with one Lord and One Faith...one God and Father of all.

 

[Stranger]

The "eyes" to see are the Holy Ghost in us and therefore they cannot and do not disagree with God. The problem and the reason believing people do disagree with each other, is that they mix up their spiritual vision with their carnal vision and the result is mixed conclusion. This is confusion of which God is NOT the author.

"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:10

"Ought not" but unfortunately often is. All of us as we are the approach should become less double-minded. The carnal of man should be decreasing while the spiritual of God should be increasing.

My point is that your eyes to see should not contradict with the Book that was by the Spirit. There should be no opposition. Correct?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Here are some unchangeable doctrines:

so, i was kind of rushed before, but just for instance:

• The sovereignty of God--satan is the ruler of the world
• The omnipresence of God--God is in heaven, and Christians, most of whom believe Jesus is God, are presently waiting for Jesus to return to earth. Do you believe Trinity doctrine or not?
• The omnipotence of God--God cannot do things in the earth without a human asking in prayer
• The foreknowledge of God--God is said to be "sorry" that He did a thing
• The salvation of God--God is the All Consuming Fire
• The hypostatic union (i.e. Jesus was the God-man)--Jesus called Himself "Son of Man"
• The Trinity--Oneness, Unity, Twoness
• Jesus' atonement--No man may die for the sins of another
• etc.--etc

 

[bbyrd009]

No, so the Scripture says.

Stranger

in your interpretation it might, but you are not God, and there are valid, Scriptural positions that refute "Catholic, Trinity" etc, as you already know. I wasn't aware that you were Catholic?

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm a traditional Christian.
Church taught by two big denominational churches.

see that Paul expressly avoided exactly the path you have taken for three years, and even then only got with the other Apostles to compare notes. I don't mean to imply that churches are bad, ok, but that the first to tell his side seems right, until another comes and examines him. You naturally tend to believe people with charisma that interpret a passage, and after that the other side of the story seems dubious

 

[bbyrd009]

We are to be like Jesus because He's God

if this is true, you should have no problem quoting Scripture for it, but instead you directly contradict Christ's own words when He calls Himself "Son of Man," and you further contradict Scripture @ "God is the head of Christ," which obviously does not equal "God is Christ."

You are the Body of Christ, so how can Christ be God? Witness the fruit of Trinity doctrine, which is Division, period. There is no other fruit that you can witness, other than to separate those who do not agree, and lend legitimacy to usurpers, popes, bishops, and other intermediaries between you and God that are antichrist, and expressly condemned on Scripture. There is no other intermediary between you and God than Christ.

imo

 

[GodsGrace]

see that Paul expressly avoided exactly the path you have taken for three years, and even then only got with the other Apostles to compare notes. I don't mean to imply that churches are bad, ok, but that the first to tell his side seems right, until another comes and examines him. You naturally tend to believe people with charisma that interpret a passage, and after that the other side of the story seems dubious

It's rather sweet that you know everything about me.
But, really, you know nothing.

You believe everybody else thinks they know it all because YOU think you know it all.
Like presuming you know me and how I came to believe what I believe.

As to your list to Oz,,,

Let me tell you why it's wrong.
No. 1 Satan is the ruler of the world...
Satan might be the prince of the air
And we might be enslaved to him until we decide we prefer to serve the Good
But he is certainly not the RULER of this world or it would look more like hell.
Much, much more.

 

[GodsGrace]

in your interpretation it might, but you are not God, and there are valid, Scriptural positions that refute "Catholic, Trinity" etc, as you already know. I wasn't aware that you were Catholic?

Catholic means universal. I'll bet you know that.
I was Catholic.
Now I'm Protestant.
Do you suppose it's because I believed everything I first learned?
Checked my brain at the door?
And then believed nothing else?

What say you??

 

[GodsGrace]

if this is true, you should have no problem quoting Scripture for it, but instead you directly contradict Christ's own words when He calls Himself "Son of Man," and you further contradict Scripture @ "God is the head of Christ," which obviously does not equal "God is Christ."

You are the Body of Christ, so how can Christ be God? Witness the fruit of Trinity doctrine, which is Division, period. There is no other fruit that you can witness, other than to separate those who do not agree, and lend legitimacy to usurpers, popes, bishops, and other intermediaries between you and God that are antichrist, and expressly condemned on Scripture. There is no other intermediary between you and God than Christ.

imo

Well.
If Jesus is just another man...
What's the difference if He's the intermediary or the pope or a pastor???

 

[GodsGrace]

see that Paul expressly avoided exactly the path you have taken for three years, and even then only got with the other Apostles to compare notes. I don't mean to imply that churches are bad, ok, but that the first to tell his side seems right, until another comes and examines him. You naturally tend to believe people with charisma that interpret a passage, and after that the other side of the story seems dubious

So Paul figured out everything on his own.
Do you trust him at least?
And if you trust him, why not the ones who spent years with Jesus?