Jesus Returns for those Looking for Him today!=Pre-trib Rapture!!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus says His is coming for those looking for His return!!! Think! Why would Jesus say that unless those not looking for Him are left behind?? Who is Jesus coming for??===Jesus=He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to """all who are eagerly waiting for him""". Hebrews 9:28 Those that believe Jesus will not return before the tribulation are not looking for Jesus to return today unless they think the tribulation years are all ready over!!!

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior…” -1 Timothy 2:1-3
God commands us to use the ' blessed hope' of His return as a reason and a motivation to live as clean as we possibly can. We dearly want to be found faithful and living right when He comes back to gets us to meet Him in the clouds. Live as clean as you can, and live as rightly before the Lord as you can. The doctrine of eternal security is a wonderful reassurance that we can never be lost once saved, but it is by no means a license for immoral living. When you fall into a sin, as we all do from time to time, 1 John 1:9 has the way that we are to cleanse ourselves - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
• Speak, exhort and rebuke: This tri-fold command instructs us to SPEAK the truth about His return to a lost and dying world. What a hope we have to give people - the abillity to get their lives in order and ready to meet Jesus so they will not either be ashamed at His coming, or worse, miss it altogether. We are told to EXHORT one another "as we see the day approaching". The body of Christ should be working together, helping the weaker brother or sister to prepare to be taken up. Do you have the gift of encouragement and exhortation? If so, use it! Lastly, we are told to REBUKE an unrepentant world who could care less that Jesus is about to return. And not to do it wiltingly, but as the bible says, we are to rebuke "with all AUTHORITY". As believers in the last days, we have a command as well as a commission to stand for the Lord Jesus Christ, and preach like Noah did in the days before the rains came. http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages...essed-hope.htm
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psalm 37:4

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Jesus says His is coming for those looking for His return!!! Think! Why would Jesus say that unless those not looking for Him are left behind?? Who is Jesus coming for??===Jesus=He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to """all who are eagerly waiting for him""". Hebrews 9:28 Those that believe Jesus will not return before the tribulation are not looking for Jesus to return today unless they think the tribulation years are all ready over!!!

We are to know the season,ie ,the birth pangs as a woman in labor.Still trying to figure out how you say before,when Christ says after?

He's not returning until the 7th trump 7th vial and 7th seal,simple as that.
Mark 13 gives you all ....
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
One of the most talked about subjects today is the end times and all the events that surround those times. There is no reason that we be anxious of these times, for Jesus told us to wait patiently on Him. In Mark 13 Jesus is going to give His disciples, and to us the seven seals, and these seals are also recorded in the Book of Revelation. They are the seals that mark the end of this earth age of the flesh. The very word "Revelation" means "to reveal", to make known.

Christ would not leave His elect in the dark concerning the simplicity of His teaching, so Jesus is asked by three of His apostles here, as they are coming out of the Temple, when is the end of the world going to be. We know from Matthew 24:3, this is the actual wording of the question put to Jesus.

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."

It is important that we understand the word "world" as used in the Greek manuscripts, is "aion",and "age, or an age of time". In the Hebrew, " `olam", which denotes a limited, or even an extended period of time, such as the context of each occurrence may demand. So as such, this is talking about the end of our present world age which is characterized by a special form of Divine administration or dispensation.

Jesus is giving us in this chapter the seven events that must come to pass to bring to an end to this age, and the return of Christ. There are many church traditions that have complicate the simplicity the Jesus is teaching here. This is why we should have our ear tuned to the Lord Jesus Christ, and not to man's traditions. So the subject to this entire chapter is, "When is the end of this world age, and what are the events that mark that coming."
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

This marks the subject for the entire chapter. Now Jesus is going to tell us the seven seals what will take place before His second advent. These seven seals are the equivalent of the seven trumpets, and the seven plagues. The seals are not in order, however the seven trumpet of Revelation mark the order that the events will come to pass. The "sound of the trumpet" is the sound that executes the order of the event that shall take place. It is God's order of the happenings at the end of this earth age of the flesh. The seals are not in order, but are given in such a way that the deceiver himself is put in the foreground, to where we can understand completely through the seals. It is the deceiver himself that causes the confusion that take place. Jesus is now going to tell us the events that take place when the end will come.

Mark 13:5 "And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any many deceive you:"

So the basis of what we are working with here and guarding against, is deception. We have covered twelve chapters now in the book of Mark, and the ones called the "deceivers" are given over and over. They are the ones that have taken God's Word and twisted it to conform to their traditions, and made God's people believe their lies. They are the offspring of the same ones that took Jesus' life, and quite frankly, it is the religious community. The deception will come from the church religious community.

Lets go to Revelation 6, where the seals are listed, to the first seal from Revelation 6 so that we can align within our minds the continuity of God's holy Word. Lets look at the seals of God with the common sense that Jesus gives us here in Mark.

Revelation 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "Come and see."

This is the first seal that Jesus is going to give us. This is one of the "Zoan", the beasts that guard the throne of God and he is going to do the speaking here. He is telling you to open your mind and see what is going to happen. It is not a secret, but something that is required of all of God's elect to see and understand.

Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

This is not a white ass like Jesus rode into Jerusalem, but is exactly like the white steed that Jesus would ride when He comes at the seventh trumpet, in Revelation 19:11-17. This white horse, and the one that is sitting on it is a copy, a counterfeit of the what will come later. This word for "bow" in the Greek is "toxon", which is not the same "bow" described in Revelation 4:3, God's bow was the rainbow that was "round about the throne of God". This bow that Satan will have when he comes will be a cheep imitation. Satan will come appearing to be what he is not. Satan will be coming as the "instead of Christ", in the role of the Antichrist, for he is the "son of perdition".

This "crown was given unto him," and it means that this false christ is going to rule when he comes. He went forth conquering, and to conquer in the name of religion. In the name of religion he is going to deceive and confuse the people living on the face of this earth. This is Jesus Christ's first warning to you. Satan is coming to deceive those that are not sealed in their minds with the truth from God's Word. That is why the famine in the end times is not for bread but for the Word of God, because people will reject God's Word for the tradition and lying deceptions that will be given in the name of religion. So we see that the person on the white horse will be Satan, disguised as the true Christ. Satan is the false messiah that will come into the world, and he will make the people of the world, living in the flesh think he has come to rapture them away.

Of course the so-called rapture has not occurred when this first seal takes place. Jesus is warning His disciples so that they will not be received by this fake christ, and if you are living in your flesh body when this occurs you will see Satan in his cheep [toxon] glory when he presents himself to the world. If you think there is a rapture, you have already taken the mark of the beast at this time, for you will think that Satan is Christ. Before this chapter ends, Jesus will tell you exactly when this gathering back to Christ is going to happen.

Mark 13:6 "For many shall come in My name, saying, `I am the Christ; and shall deceive many."

Today there are thousands of ministers that present themselves to you, and tell you that they are of Christ. They tell you to be saved, and to believe on Jesus, yet they never quite get into God's Word enough to where you will understand the events of our time. They don't prepare you in a way to keep you from being deceived by this false christ that shall come first. So where does the deception come from? RELIGION! The deception comes from false messiahs, false teachers, and that sweet old minister that just never gets around to prepare his flock for the coming of this false christ.

We read in Revelation 6:2 to where Satan is going to come with his crown and have the right to rule. So how will he take over that kingdom of his? He will assume his authority with lies, a flood of lies.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Mark 13:7 "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be ye not troubled: for shuch things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet."

This is getting into the second seal of the book of Revelation.

Revelation 6:3 "And when He had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, "come and see."

This is the second angel that is going to reveal another event that shall come to pass. The"beast" is another of the cherubs that guarded the throne of God.

Revelation 6:4 "And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

The "red horse" is a war horse. The "sword" that causes this peace to be take from the earth, and given to war, is the sword of lies, remember, "Take hee that no man deceive you". The sword of Christ that proceeds from Christ is given in Revelation 1:16, and it cuts both ways. However, Satan also has a sword, and his sword [words] causes nothing but death and destruction to those that listen to it. First come the lies, then the deception, and then the war. Before any nation goes to war, its people have to be prepared for the war, and many things that are spoken to prepare the people for that conflict are pure lies. This final war appears to be one thing, when in actuality it is just the opposite. It is a spiritual war that appears to be a thing of peace, when in fact it is complete destruction of the souls of men. the battle field will be in the minds of men and women, and it will be fought with words, ideas and precepts, that are twisted from the Word of God by Satan.

So the second seal from Mark 13 is the war that will cover the entire earth, and it is a spiritual warfare. It comes through a false sense of peace, and Paul warns us of this warfare in Ephesians 6:10; "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might."

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This world wide war is a spiritual warfare that is fought with words, lies, and a distortion of the truth. It is not out on over foreign battle field, but the battle field in in your mind. It is fought with words and ideas, and the twisting of the truth to the point of making lies seem to be the truth. So the second seal is just like the first, only it is not the Antichrist, but some of his people that would mix and intermingle, and bring about a deception of the truths from God's Word. The second seal is the war horse. When you hear continually of war, you don't have to worry, but when you hear the opposite of war, or peace, peace all the time, then is when you have to take notice.

The "new world order" is the horse that the "new world peace" shall ride into our time on. So this is the second seal. This is why it is essential for you and I to study the entire Word of God, and place that Word in our minds [hearts], for the time will come when that is the only thing that will protect you from the lies and deception, and deceiving wonders that Satan will have
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Mark 13:8 "For nations shall rise against nation, and kingdom aganst kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows."

This is the third seal that Jesus is given to us.

Revelation 6:5 "And when He had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, "come and see." And I beheld, and, lo, a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand."

This third angel of God is telling you and I to look and pay attention with understanding. These "balances" are the balances of commerce. Remember the four hidden dynasties? Education, Religion, Politics, and Economics [the fourth is that of Commerce and trade], and the balances in the hand of the Kenites, using this to draw the world to their father Satan.

Revelation 6:6 "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, "A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

Remember that the "oil" is symbolic for "olive oil", the "oil of our people". It is symbolic for theblood of Christ. The point that is made here is that you do not hurt even one of God's elect. A penny was the scale for one days labor, and that is what you would work all day long for to get a loaf of bread. It is talking about a famine, however, as we read earlier, the famine is not for the bread that you eat, but the famine is for the hearing the truth from the Word of God with understanding.

This famine is what Jesus is talking about here in Mark 13:8. When you shall hear of these "famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows."

This word "sorrows" as used in the Greek are "birth pangs". These are the labor pains that come to a woman before the birth actually comes. As the birth draws closer to delivery, these pangs get closer and closer until they are virtually one on top of the other until the child finally comes. This is in reference though to the birth of a new age. That new age is the Millennium age, that starts with the return of Christ. Remember that these "birth pangs" [seals or prophecies] are the subject of this chapter, "What are the sign that we shall see before Christ's return?" So the signs of Christ's return are when the birth pangs start, when the famine or the lack of knowledge for hearing God's Word becomes common, and the masses of the people will turn to listen to false teachers and false prophets and turn to their traditions.

You hear it all the time; "Here is Christ message to you," one will say; another says, "This is the message God gave me to give to you;" and so on. They all claim to be from Christ and with His message given to them by Christ for you. All the denominations claim to have the inside track to Jesus Christ and His Word, yet very few of them will give you the actually Word of God with the knowledge from the manuscripts. The people are hungry for the Word, yet all these false teachers are given is bits and morsels of half truths, just enough to keep the money flowing to their offering plates. So the third seal is when the religious world presents the famine for the hearing of the Word of God.

If you care you can get the other seals below,if not,it's all good,as I can't make the seeds grow anyway

mark13
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Rev 20:4-6 tells us when the rest of the dead will be resurrected in the following manner: -
Revelation 20:4-6: - 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

When does the first resurrection of the Saints who have lost their heads happen? Immediately after Armageddon, So if the Saint who have become the dust of the earth, will not be resurrected and given new bodies until the 1,000 years have passed, then we cannot expect the rapture, i.e. to meet Christ in the Air to happen until 1,000 years have passed from the first resurrection. But who is so desperate that they need to be resurrected in our near future?
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
At death all return to the Father,that's how they return with Him,not raptured
Rev 20:4-6 tells us when the rest of the dead will be resurrected in the following manner: -
Revelation 20:4-6: - 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

When does the first resurrection of the Saints who have lost their heads happen? Immediately after Armageddon, So if the Saint who have become the dust of the earth, will not be resurrected and given new bodies until the 1,000 years have passed, then we cannot expect the rapture, i.e. to meet Christ in the Air to happen until 1,000 years have passed from the first resurrection. But who is so desperate that they need to be resurrected in our near future?

Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

If you are saved and make a stand against the Antichrist and his deceptions, you will reign with Christ 1,000 years.

Those who did take the "mark of the beast", their souls will not, I repeat, will not have an eternal spiritual body until they are tested after the millennium. I Corinthians 15:50-52describes the mystery of the two bodies. The physical and spiritual bodies are two separate entities. There are also two spiritual bodies, one eternal, the other perishable (mortal). Those who take the mark of the beast will not have their eternal bodies at the seventh trump. Instead they will have mortal spiritual bodies (liable-to-die), and have to be taught again to learn the difference between 'the holy from the profane' for 1,000 years and then be tested at the end of it to earn that eternal body by choosing Jesus Christ.

What are we talking about when it says "the rest of the dead"? The difference in taking part in the first resurrection or not taking part -- which hinges on whether or not they were deceived by the Antichrist. Remember, John has been taken in the Spirit to the last day before Christ's return. Revelation 20 is talking about that specific day when the last trump sounds, and Jesus Christ our Lord is returning with His saints to the earth. This verse is not addressing those who died 50, 100, or at any time from any century prior to the sounding of the seventh trump. It is addressing the generation (our generation) who will live in the time of the seven seals, and those who will see some take Satan's mark (the mark of the beast) and give service to him.

I Corinthians 15:52 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

The kingdom of God is wherever Jesus Christ is, and flesh and blood cannot exist in that kingdom. When Christ returns for the Millennium age here on earth, flesh and blood bodies will not exist.

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

This is a mystery that Paul is going to reveal to us that had been hidden until Paul's writing. This mystery concerns what happens at a particular point in time, for at that instant, there will be no more death. "Sleep" as used here, is # 2838 in the Strong's Greek Dictionary; "Koimesis, koy'-may-sis; from 2837, to put to sleep." We read in # 2837; "Koimao, Koy-mah'-o; to put to sleep, to decease, to be dead."

So a time is coming when all the people on the face of the earth will never see death in their flesh bodies again. This is the mystery that Paul is going to tell us; when this event shall take place.

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

On the first day of the Millennium age, the "Kingdom of Heaven" will be with us on earth. You cannot enter that kingdom age in a flesh body. Therefore, it is written in verse 52 that all will be changed, in the wink of an eye, and at the last trump (seventh trump). When that seventh trump sounds, everyone on earth will be changed to an incorruptible body.

That doesn't have anything to do with your soul, or its condition. Your physical body and your spiritual body (soul) have nothing to do with the condition of one another. Your soul is your inner man that will exist in your current flesh body, and either at death or at the seventh trump, will be changed and enter into a new body (spirit body) which will not be subject to the decay this flesh body is subject to.

So, to understand what will occur in the Millennium age, you must understand that instantly following the seventh trump, all flesh bodies simply do not have life. Not one person will exist in the flesh. Every person will have the same capabilities and all will have the understanding to be taught without Satan's influence.

However, only those saints of God who have died in the flesh, or who lived and stood against Satan will take part in the first resurrection. By that I mean, will have an active part with Jesus Christ in His kingdom and reign, as he rules and teaches the earth for one thousand years, and live in their immortal soul bodies. (There will be those who stumble for a short time and bow to satan, but they will repent before the seventh trumpet. Daniel 11:34 and still be part of the first resurrection - because they repented prior to the end of this flesh age).
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are to know the season,ie ,the birth pangs as a woman in labor.Still trying to figure out how you say before,when Christ says after?

He's not returning until the 7th trump 7th vial and 7th seal,simple as that.
Mark 13 gives you all ....

The rapture(catching up) of believers to meet Jesus in the clouds is not the same event as when Jesus returns to erth with those raptured believers to defeat all evil and set up His kingdom on earth and rule the nations with a rod of iron!!!
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
@in2thelight

It does not matter how many times you publish/post the above theory, it does not stack up against scripture.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@in2thelight

It does not matter how many times you publish/post the above theory, it does not stack up against scripture.



God's Word says Jesus returns with the saints!! Yes!! The raptured saints were in heaven and return with Jesus!!!

1 THESSALONIANS 3:13 (Paul)
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints2.

JUDE 14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints2.
15 To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
God's Word says Jesus returns with the saints!! Yes!! The raptured saints were in heaven and return with Jesus!!!

1 THESSALONIANS 3:13 (Paul)
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints2.

JUDE 14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints2.
15 To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds

And Jesus said:

Matthew 25:31-32: - "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the {holy}* angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
* only found in the Textus Receptus Greek Texts.

I agree that the above traditional English translation of 1 Thessalonians 3:13 has been translated as "saint" but the same Greek word has been translated as "holy" i.e. Luke 1:70 and as such I am not sure that the translation of this verse is in keeping with Matthew 25:31 where Christ Himself said that He would return with all of the {holy} angels. where the inclusion of the word "holy" is not in all of the original Greek texts, i.e. NA27, used to translate the KJV. It is, however found in other Greek texts i.e. the Texus Receptus.

With that said, your assertion based on the English translations may not be representative of Pauls intended meaning in the original Greek text and that the Greek word should be translated differently, i.e. say "holy". My sense is that the translators translated this Greek word as Saints to be in keeping with their theological twist and understanding.

As such to base a theory on so little evidence is not necessarily wise.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL!!! How typical!!! Cults do the same! If they don't like what God's Word says they just say it is not the right "translation"!

THESSALONIANS 3:13 (Paul)
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints2.

JUDE 14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints2.
15 To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
LOL!!! How typical!!! Cults do the same! If they don't like what God's Word says they just say it is not the right "translation"!

THESSALONIANS 3:13 (Paul)
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints2.

JUDE 14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints2.
15 To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds

yes GISMYS how typical. The Greek word based on the Greek root G:0040 found in Jude 14 ἁγίαις is only found 3 times in the new testament in the following verses: Romans 1:2, 2 Peter 3:11, Jude 1:14

Romans 1:2: - This gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures
2 Peter 3:11: -Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
Jude 14: - Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints

This is not a difficult exercise to do, and it points out that one of the above verses is inconsistent with the other verses and as such we can only assume that it has been wrongly translated by the translators with them holding fast with the past traditions of theology.

But you can continue to use all the fallible English translation to prove your particular points.
 
Last edited:

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I say to those that want to argue and fight against God's Word on the rapture they should pray and ask God to let the say behind and maybe God will answer that prayer as I understand that Jesus will return for those looking for Him!!!
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
@in2thelight

It does not matter how many times you publish/post the above theory, it does not stack up against scripture.

What theory,if anyone has a theory ,it's the rapturist,as you all can't refute the verse Christ stated Himself

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

What part of AFTER don't you'll get,adding to God's Word when saying the verse is not written for the Church,show me one verse that says it isn't??????

There are only two advents of Christ in ALL of scripture,period........
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Deu 4:30

When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
Jdg 10:14

Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.
1Sa 26:24

And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the LORD, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation.
Mat 13:21

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mar 13:24

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Jhn 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Act 14:22

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Rom 2:9

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 5:3

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 8:35

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shalltribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 12:12

Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
2Co 1:4

Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
2Co 7:4

Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
1Th 3:4

For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
2Th 1:6

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
Rev 1:9

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 2:9

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Which of the above scriptures say we escape tribulation?
Let me answer my own question,NONE!!!!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Richard_oti

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What theory, if anyone has a theory ,it's the rapturist, as you all can't refute the verse Christ stated Himself

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

What part of AFTER don't you'll get, adding to God's Word when saying the verse is not written for the Church, show me one verse that says it isn't??????

There are only two advents of Christ in ALL of scripture, period........

There are two accounts of Christ's fleeting visitation around the time of the Armageddon Judgement of the Kings on the earth. One in Luke 14 and the other in Matthew 25. But then again there may be more fleeting visitation that we are not aware of at this stage, because of our understanding of Scripture.

If we consider Isaiah 23:21-23 it states the following: -

Isaiah 24:21-23: -
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.


Verse 23 above indicates that after the punishment of the hosts of exalted ones and the Kings of the earth are punished, then the moon will be disgraces, i.e. turn red, and the sun ashamed, i.e. will be darkened.

Yep that seems to me to be indicating the end of the Millennium Age, and in keeping with what Christ was saying in Mathew 24 that you have quoted.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,406
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wonderful Truth of the Very Near Rapture (Catching Up of All Believers)!! Those Who Died in Christ ===1 THESS. 4:13-18 NASB
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Thenwe who are alive and remain will be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.===caught up "is" the rapture!!
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself. Philippians 3:20-21
 
  • Like
Reactions: pompadour