Then by that, are you thinking there is no need for a literal return of our Lord Jesus? even though His Word reveals He will literally return to this earth? (Zechariah 14; Acts 1).
Kingdom of God is Within You
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Then by that, are you thinking there is no need for a literal return of our Lord Jesus? even though His Word reveals He will literally return to this earth? (Zechariah 14; Acts 1).
Pipiripi
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Jesus is from baby FLESH, He grow up FLESH, He died FLESH, He rose up FLESH and He come back FLESH. Jesus became human just like His creation that's why also He call us brothers and sisters. That is what we will be after the 1000 years millennium in heaven with His Father.
Pipiripi
Active Member
Aslong my friend don't take your eyes of Israel in end time. You will never seen the truth about those prophecies. Everywhere people is talking about this false rapture theory. My friend the war begin in HEAVEN, in SPIRITUAL PLACE, WHERE SPIRITUAL PEOPLE LIVE. And now it is down here. All the wars and things that happens now is because the good and the evil is fighting. We HUMAN are involved in this because of sin. Our battle is not against humans,but againt Satan and his demons. Ephesians 6:13.... take YOUR eyes a moment on the Roman Catholic Church. There is the deception. Don't you see that Christians are now Spiritual Israel? I hope that just one of you God open their eyes and says to me I got it.
Our final state of redemption is to the "spiritual body" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:
1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
Notice what Paul said there in verse 50.
When our flesh body dies, our flesh body goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit with soul goes back to God Who gave it (Eccl.12:5-7).
The "spiritual body" Paul speaks of is not flesh like what we have today. It is not a ghost body either.
Many have not understood Bible example like Genesis 18 when "three men" appeared to Abraham, and one of them was our Lord Jesus in Old Testament times. While two of the men went to Sodom and Gomorrah to get Lot and his family out, Abraham stood with Jesus asking Him if He would destroy the righteous with the wicked in Sodom and Gomorrah. The two men that went to get Lot were the two angels that met Lot. The angels and our Lord ate what Abraham prepared for them. A ghost body cannot do that.
Yes, I definitely... am watching.
It is my hope that other brethren are watching too.
Pipiripi
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forrestcupp
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So does this mean you don't believe there is a such thing as a spiritual realm? You don't believe in unseen angels and demons? Where exactly is Jesus right at this moment? In our hearts? So is there a man living inside our bodies, or what? Where exactly is the throne of God that Jesus is at the right hand of making intercession for us right now? Do you not believe in Jesus' current Lordship? You seriously believe that because Jesus isn't physically sitting on some physical throne on the earth that His Kingdom does not exist yet? I'm having a hard time understanding where you're coming from?
You are sounding kind of like the zealots of Jesus' time, and all the people cheering for Him at His Triumphal Entry. They assumed that He was there only to overthrow the Romans and establish a physical Kingdom on the earth, then they were angry when He died on a cross, not understanding that was His act to set up an eternal Kingdom.
Yes there will come a time when Jesus physically returns, sits upon a physical throne, and reigns for a Millennium before the New Heaven and New Earth come for eternity. That is a truth that we hope for, and it is coming. But that doesn't mean that He isn't already King, and that His Kingdom doesn't already exist.
Just out of curiosity, I know you believe that there is a lot of false teaching based on the following scripture. But what is your interpretation of this scripture. It is, after all, in the Bible, and it does imply that this is something that has already happened, and is not just future based.
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
you declare it mystic or some others may do so, but there's nothing mystic about it. its scripture and Word of God so you're going to have to deal with it if you what to continue to content with the Gospel. I've met preachers and pastors that will plainly state that no one can know God, it sounds like you might be one of their followers.
A Quickening Spirit.
Didn't you read the 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture by Apostle Paul?
1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV
Pipiripi
Active Member
No, His Kingdom is real, even as He showed the Pharisees when they asked Him when the kingdom would come. But that was a spiritual kingdom sense relative to His Power He worked at His first coming. He certainly was not exhibiting a literal kingdom on earth while He was crucified on the cross, now was He?
In other words, our Lord Jesus' first coming was not to establish His kingdom which is about His future kingdom here on earth. He came to die on the cross and thus defeat the devil (Hebrews 2:14). And by His sacrifice upon the cross He defeated all His enemies, even Satan's host in the heavenly realm.
So yes, this following event in this verse has yet to happen today, especially the part in red:
Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV
This is where we still are today:
Heb 10:12-13
12 But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
KJV
Actually, what I've shown already is the opposite of that idea, because I've been declaring our Lord Jesus' Kingdom to be a future event of the world to come, and not already established on earth. It's the deceived today who think His Kingdom is already established here on earth today. There is a representative established already on earth today, and that's His Church, but not His Kingdom come.
And the reason why I make this specific distinction between His Church today and His Kingdom to come is because of how the deceived are trying to establish His Kingdom here on earth today as a part of THIS WORLD, when that is not going to happen. Because of that, God is going to send them the "strong delusion" Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Thessalonians 2.
Mostly true, except it does mean His Kingdom is not established here on earth just yet (recall the Rev.11:15 verse again, and The Lord's Prayer of Luke 11 about "Thy kingdom come...").
Eph 2:4-8
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
That is about being born of The Spirit through Christ Jesus' death on the cross, for it is our spirit that is quickened, not our flesh. This happens when we accept Jesus Christ as God's Promised Savior. But it is not about His Kingdom already being established here on earth by that. Our Lord Jesus is still sitting on the right hand of God, expecting until His enemies are made His footstool. His enemies are still in power today here on earth, and at the very end of this present world, Satan is going to establish a beast kingdom over all nations on this earth, as God has ordained that to occur per His Book of Revelation.
That certainly is a wild and irrelevant false accusation.
The 'kingdom now' movement believes they can bring Christ's Kingdom to come on earth in the 'now', without His return. Some of them (like Full Preterism) doesn't even believe in His future literal return to this earth. That thinking is of the deceived who will not wait for Jesus' return to establish His Kingdom upon this earth. Those deceived are instead prepared to fall away to another instead of our Lord Jesus.
I showed you, or Apostle Paul did, a Quickening Spirit...
1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV
Or maybe you'd prefer this evidence by Apostle Peter:
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV
My question to you still stands:
Are you thinking there is no need for a literal return of our Lord Jesus? even though His Word reveals He will literally return to this earth? (Zechariah 14; Acts 1).
well that's there problem isn't it. if they think to use scripture to make others believe they can fulfill what takes the power of God to do then leave them to their lies and wacko thinking. get used to it they are a dime a dozen. but that doesn't justify on your part to say that the Kingdom isn't within when its plain as day in scripture that it is.
the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling of God because it His Presence because Jesus says God is Spirit and Jesus also says the Father is in Him and He in the Father and Jesus also says that He is In His and Jesus says His Father is in Heaven.
those are the facts
just because the serpent uses them to create lies doesn't change the facts. and if you use the scriptures to justify to others your on views and not the views of the Kingdom of Heaven, you're just as guilty as the wackos that use scripture to justify their views, get it?
bbyrd009
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VictoryinJesus
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The Kingdom within is light. The LORD is light. We are told if we walk in the light We will not stumble. We are told persecution and possibly even death could be the result of this light because the world has no part of light nor can comprehend the light.
Matthew 6:22-23
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. [23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
To say the Kingdom is not here is to say there is no light, only darkness. But the LORD tells us to walk in the light which is the Lamb (Christ).
2 Timothy 1:9-10
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, [10] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
John 14:22-28
[22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. [25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. [28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Peace is of the light.
There is no peace in darkness.
I realize this is OT but is what it means to be filled with the Spirit.
Exodus 35:30-31
[30] And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the Lord hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; [31] And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
And we are filled with the Spirit of God: who IS wisdom.
Psalm 104:24
[24] O Lord , how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
Psalm 136:5
[5] To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
(Proverbs 8) is a beautiful passage on wisdom.
We are to seek wisdom.
We are to seek the Kingdom first.
Isaiah 11:2-5
[2] And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord ; [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord : and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. [5] And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Matthew 6:22-23
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. [23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
To say the Kingdom is not here is to say there is no light, only darkness. But the LORD tells us to walk in the light which is the Lamb (Christ).
2 Timothy 1:9-10
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, [10] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
John 14:22-28
[22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. [25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. [28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Peace is of the light.
There is no peace in darkness.
I realize this is OT but is what it means to be filled with the Spirit.
Exodus 35:30-31
[30] And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the Lord hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; [31] And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
And we are filled with the Spirit of God: who IS wisdom.
Psalm 104:24
[24] O Lord , how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
Psalm 136:5
[5] To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
(Proverbs 8) is a beautiful passage on wisdom.
We are to seek wisdom.
We are to seek the Kingdom first.
Isaiah 11:2-5
[2] And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord ; [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord : and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. [5] And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
forrestcupp
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Based on this post and the one before it, it sounds to me like you don't really disagree; it's just that you don't really understand the opposing viewpoint. I'm not as "Kingdom Now" focused as a lot of people, but evidently I am a lot more than you are, and I do have an understanding of it. So let's try to reconcile here.Actually, what I've shown already is the opposite of that idea, because I've been declaring our Lord Jesus' Kingdom to be a future event of the world to come, and not already established on earth. It's the deceived today who think His Kingdom is already established here on earth today. There is a representative established already on earth today, and that's His Church, but not His Kingdom come.
And the reason why I make this specific distinction between His Church today and His Kingdom to come is because of how the deceived are trying to establish His Kingdom here on earth today as a part of THIS WORLD, when that is not going to happen. Because of that, God is going to send them the "strong delusion" Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Thessalonians 2.
Mostly true, except it does mean His Kingdom is not established here on earth just yet (recall the Rev.11:15 verse again, and The Lord's Prayer of Luke 11 about "Thy kingdom come...").
Eph 2:4-8
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
That is about being born of The Spirit through Christ Jesus' death on the cross, for it is our spirit that is quickened, not our flesh. This happens when we accept Jesus Christ as God's Promised Savior. But it is not about His Kingdom already being established here on earth by that. Our Lord Jesus is still sitting on the right hand of God, expecting until His enemies are made His footstool. His enemies are still in power today here on earth, and at the very end of this present world, Satan is going to establish a beast kingdom over all nations on this earth, as God has ordained that to occur per His Book of Revelation.
You, yourself, said in your previous post that you do believe the Kingdom does exist right now, but it is a spiritual one. First off, I don't think there is anyone who is actually claiming that Jesus' physical Kingdom is established on the earth right now. They're talking about the spiritual kingdom. The same one that you believe in.
Secondly, there aren't too many people who are Kingdom Now people who don't believe there will come a time when Jesus physically returns and sets up His physical kingdom on the earth. We believe that, too. So we both believe that there will come a time in the future when there is a physically established kingdom, and we both believe that the kingdom is currently spiritual. The only difference with Kingdom Now people is they tend to focus more about what God wants to do on the earth now, rather than eschatology, i.e. spreading the gospel, etc.
When we talk about things like being seated with Christ in heavenly places, we're not saying that we're having some kind of physical experience on the throne of God. What we're talking about is having a spiritual experience with God in His spiritual kingdom. I would bet that you believe that you can experience having your heart touched by God, right? We believe that God is alive, active, and He wants to be a part of our lives today, as well as the promises to come. At the very base and starting level of Christianity is salvation. That in itself is a spiritual, miraculous experience with God where you are made into a completely new creation.
I honestly don't think that there is much difference in beliefs, at least between you and I. It's just that maybe you didn't have a good understanding of what is meant by some phrasing or terminology. But having said that, I know there are people who call themselves mystics that go so far as to reject the importance of the Bible, and place a higher importance on spiritual experiences. I'm not talking about that. The Bible is our foundation.
bbyrd009
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