Looking for advice: Can women be pastors

[Willie T]

I'm not CoC, There is literally not many options where we live. For the time being we have to do what we can until I graduate in December and possibly relocate.

Very plainly, "No you don't." If there is even ONE other option (and there always is) then you are not constrained to do what someone else tells you that you have to do because of the way THEY have decided God's word reads.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let's address this "A woman is to remain silent in the Church service" you used, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV let's get that one first.

the first problem you have is this.
#1. the term "Woman" here in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV is speaking of wives ONLY, not all women. listen,

WOMEN: G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.

How do we know that woman here is definition #2? just read the scripture, verse 35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church". HUSBAND? yes husband, the only "woman" who have a "husband is a married one, "A WIFE", just as definition #2 states.

and your next problem is this.

#2. the apostle Paul was not even speaking to the "wives"/women, no he was speaking to their HUSBAND. listen, verse 34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches". who was the apostle speaking to? those women/wives husband.

look, if I said to you, "keep your children quite in the library". who am I speaking to... YOU about "YOUR" children. here the Apostle Paul was speaking to the HUSBAND of these out of turn spoken wives. now keep that in mind because it directly affect what he says in 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
see, the HUSBAND is supposed to TEACH his wife at home (1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV) before that speak in church. a husband duty is to TEACH his wife the thing of God so that they can speak the same thing. in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV that was the confusion. the wife gets up and say one thing just opposite of what here husband just said, that confusion. it's an embarrassment to the HUSBAND, and that's why the apostle address the husband, "Let YOUR" remain silent. and why "remain silent?". until here husband TEACH her properly. it is the burden of the Husband to TEACH his OWN wife, hence 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV.

another thing, a husband don't "RULE" his wife, but LEAD her in LOVE, supportive scripture,
Hope this helped. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". NOT "RULE" thee, but rule "OVER" meaning to protect, guide, and lead. and this is by "PERMISSION". like in asking your wife for permission to protect, guide and LOVE her more that your OWN self. oh yes, lay down your life for her. I know, "WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE. here it is, Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it"......... Love your wife that much, ... as husband you should.

conclusion: it is the HUSBAND who is at fault, by not teaching their "OWN" wives the things of God at HOME First before they come to church.

PCY.

The scripture deals directly with the "Woman" in reference to "Eve" being deceived, no husband needed or addressed.

Women are to be "Silent In The Church"

God Isn't In To The 21st Century Equal Rights And The Feminist Movement.

Perhaps You Need To Rewrite The Holy Bible.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[101G]

The scripture deals directly with the "Woman" in reference to "Eve" being deceived, no husband needed or addressed.

Woman are to be "Silent In The Church"

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

sorry, 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV is for the HOME and not the church. one need to understand, or differentiate between the two.

 

[Truth7t7]

sorry, 1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV is for the HOME and not the church. one need to understand, or differentiate between the two.

So the woman is to be silent, not to usurp authority over the man, and to learn from the man with all subjection?

But this same woman can break this instruction and can now be vocal, usurp authority, and have men subjected to her authoritative teachings in the Church being led by a male pastor and deacons?

"Real Big Smiles"!

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[101G]

So the woman is to be silent, not to usurp authority over the man, and to learn from the man with all subjection?

But this same woman can break this instruction and can now be vocal, usurp authority, and have men subjected to their authoritative teachings in the Church being led by a male pastor and deacons?

"Real Big Smiles"!

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

read post #43, or you might want to start at post #1 and work your way back to here.

so, I'm not getting into an argument, just read the scripture. if you disagree with what I and other are saying, then this is not for you. so don't sweat it.

good day.

 

[LC627]

Very plainly, "No you don't." If there is even ONE other option (and there always is) then you are not constrained to do what someone else tells you that you have to do because of the way THEY have decided God's word reads.

So I should go to the Kingdom Hall?

And I'm not constrained, I'm open with what I personal believe with them. I didn't say it was a bad church or that I'm miserable there, I'm just asking for insight on this subject.

 

[Phoneman777]

#1. Paul was an apostle, a prophet, and a teacher. which means he's a BISHOP. the term "Bishop" is another name for Pastor or Elder.
as I pointed out, Paul is a Pastor. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".

here the apostle just said that he was a. a pastor, he understand all mysteries, and have all knowledge". a Pastor have knowledge and understanding, per Jer 3:15, scriptures don't lie.

PS, WHO SAID, "a woman is not to serve as a church pastor"?. book chapter and verse please

Please, I want to be clear that I don't wish or presume to rob women of what God has given them. Both OT and NT oft revealed the valuable contributions to the cause of Christ that women of Scripture have sacrificially provided and that there is no prohibition against anyone who wishes to enlist for service in the Lord's Army.

However, as a Veteran of a Foreign War, I'm well acquainted with the concept of delegated authority and assigned duty which is essential to reach any mission objective. God created women and men equal in every way, but has clearly assigned them different capacities in which to serve in His church. We simply find no record of women pastors in church leadership, and before you say "that was a different culture at time", stop and remember that same culture and time saw women serving in non-ecclesiastical positions of authority as Judges/administrators, but never in the church. A spirit of dissatisfaction seems to swirl around this issue, but we must remember that the whole problem of sin got started when Lucifer became dissatisfied with his assigned duty.

If Paul had in mind that both men and women were eligible to serve as pastors, then why would Paul say "husband of one wife" instead of "the spouse of one spouse" or "the husband of one wife as well as the wife of one husband" - for both would require this counsel in a time when the sanctity of marriage was so disregarded that Jesus Himself had to set the record straight? But, Paul's comments were directed to men alone.

 

[Willie T]

I'm not CoC, There is literally not many options where we live. For the time being we have to do what we can until I graduate in December and possibly relocate.

You say you are going to a Bible college? But you are not CoC? Are your professors? Is that why you can only go where they attend?

 

[OzSpen]

I agree with that, God used many mighty women in the Bible. The scripture some use is, 1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

LC,

For too long women have been relegated to an inferior role of teaching ministry in the church. I used to be of the view that women could not teach a mixed gathering, based on 1 Tim 2:12. I've changed my view after lengthy examination of the controversial passages.

See my article, The heresy of women preachers? Here I examine a broad range of issues surrounding women in ministry, including 1 Tim 2:12.

I have gone into more depth on 1 Tim 2:12 in, Must women never teach men in the church?

Please note that the word used for 'authority' in this verse is not the regular Greek noun for authority - exousia. Instead it is the Greek verb (infinitive), authentein, and this is the only appearance of the word in the entire NT. It is used in only a few other secular Greek sources. Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives its meaning as 'authority or domineer'. This is a domineering authority over men that is prohibited.

With the gift of teaching (1 Cor 12:28-29; Rom 12:6-7; and pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11-12 NIV), nowhere is it stated that these gifts are restricted to males only.

In fact, 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) states, 'Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you'. Brothers and sisters in Christ are gifted with these gifts when the church gathers and that includes the gift of 'teaching'.

In none of the above verses is the gift of teacher or pastor-teacher stated to be restricted to men only. If the gift of pastor-teacher (in Eph 4:11 the Greek construction of pastors and teachers or pastor-teachers refers to one person) is meant to exclude women, then - in my understanding - we have interpretations that have information added by the interpreter.

Since women are not mentioned as being excluded from the ministry gift of pastor-teacher, to make 1 Tim 2:12 (written to Timothy in the Ephesian Church) exclude women from being pastor-teachers, we have a massive contradiction with the other Scriptures above.

To promote the supposed silence of women in the Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:34-35) is in contradiction with 1 Cor 11:5 where women can prophesy (which is done publicly in the church - 1 Cor 14:3-4). I explore the kind of silence required of these women in,

• Women wrongly closed down in ministry

• Are women supposed to be permanently silent in the church gathering?

Billy Graham said his daughter, Anne Graham Lotz, was the best preacher in his family. It is HERE on Anne Graham Lotz's homepage that there is the quote of Anne being the best preacher in the Graham family.

I am not an egalitarian feminist but an exegete and expositor who wants to interpret Scripture, based on what the Bible teaches. I don't find the silence of women in the pulpit to be biblical. This may come as a shock to some of you to hear this from an evangelical Christian.

See also N T Wright, ‘Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis’.

Oz

 

[LC627]

You say you are going to a Bible college? But you are not CoC? Are your professors? Is that why you can only go where they attend?[/QUOTE

I'm simply looking for insight on this subject since growing up in a methodist church women pastors wasn't seen as wrong and I don't see anything wrong with a woman teaching a bible class if I'm in the room or a woman leading a song, etc. just something different than what I'm use to. My degree is in ministry but I am not doing pulpit preaching or congregation work, I'm seeking a chaplain path.

 

[LC627]

LC,

For too long women have been relegated to an inferior role of teaching ministry in the church. I used to be of the view that women could not teach a mixed gathering, based on 1 Tim 2:12. I've changed my view after lengthy examination of the controversial passages.

See my article, The heresy of women preachers? Here I examine a broad range of issues surrounding women in ministry, including 1 Tim 2:12.

I have gone into more depth on 1 Tim 2:12 in, Must women never teach men in the church?

Please note that the word used for 'authority' in this verse is not the regular Greek noun for authority - exousia. Instead it is the Greek verb (infinitive), authentein, and this is the only appearance of the word in the entire NT. It is used in only a few other secular Greek sources. Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives its meaning as 'authority or domineer'. This is a domineering authority over men that is prohibited.

With the gift of teaching (1 Cor 12:28-29; Rom 12:6-7; and pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11-12 NIV), nowhere is it stated that these gifts are restricted to males only.

In fact, 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) states, 'Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you'. Brother and sisters in Christ are gifted with these gifts when the church gathers and that includes the gift of 'teaching'.

In none of the above verses is the gift of teacher or pastor-teacher stated to be restricted to men only. If the gift of pastor-teacher (in Eph 4:11 the Greek construction of pastors and teachers or pastor-teachers refers to one person) is meant to exclude women, then - in my understanding - we have interpretations that have information added by the interpreter.

Since women are not mentioned as being excluded from the ministry gift of pastor-teacher, to make 1 Tim 2:12 (written to Timothy in the Ephesian Church) exclude women from being pastor-teachers, we have a massive contradiction with the other Scriptures above.

To promote the supposed silence of women in the Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:34-35) is in contradiction with 1 Cor 11:5 where women can prophesy (which is done publicly in the church - 1 Cor 14:3-4). I explore the kind of silence required of these women in,

• Women wrongly closed down in ministry

• Are women supposed to be permanently silent in the church gathering?

Billy Graham said his daughter, Anne Graham Lotz, was the best preacher in his family. It is HERE on Anne Graham Lotz's homepage that there is the quote of Anne being the best preacher in the Graham family.

I am not an egalitarian feminist but an exegete and expositor who wants to interpret Scripture, based on what the Bible teaches. I don't find the silence of women in the pulpit to be biblical. This may come as a shock to some of you to hear this from an evangelical Christian.

See also N T Wright, ‘Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis’.

Oz

Thank you for your reply, I greatly appreciate it! I will check out those links you posted.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't find the silence of women in the pulpit to be biblical. This may come as a shock to some of you to hear this from an evangelical Christian.

Well it does come as a shock since the Bible clearly forbids women to be in the pulpit. Unless you wish to expunge this portion of Scripture:

But I suffer not [ALLOW NOT or PERMIT NOT] a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12 KJB).
γυναικὶ δὲ διδάσκειν οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός ἀλλ' εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ

There is not a single translation which does not have this verse, and which does not say what this verse teaches. So what you are saying is that you are prepared to reject Bible truth when it does not suit you.

As a matter of fact, many evangelical churches have done exactly what you propose. Pick and choose the Scriptures that are *acceptable* and reject or re-interpret those which are not.

Since Peter has told us that all of Paul's epistles are to be regarded as Scripture, these are not merely the words of Paul, but they are the words of the Holy Spirit.

 

[101G]

Well it does come as a shock since the Bible clearly forbids women to be in the pulpit. Unless you wish to expunge this portion of Scripture:

But I suffer not [ALLOW NOT or PERMIT NOT] a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12 KJB).
γυναικὶ δὲ διδάσκειν οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός ἀλλ' εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ

There is not a single translation which does not have this verse, and which does not say what this verse teaches. So what you are saying is that you are prepared to reject Bible truth when it does not suit you.

As a matter of fact, many evangelical churches have done exactly what you propose. Pick and choose the Scriptures that are *acceptable* and reject or re-interpret those which are not.

Since Peter has told us that all of Paul's epistles are to be regarded as Scripture, these are not merely the words of Paul, but they are the words of the Holy Spirit.

GINOLJC, to all.

MY, my, my, when will people ever learn. Enoch111 did you read the whole chapter? apparently not. if you would have you would have notice that the apostle is speaking to wives, not women in general in these verses. HOW DO I KNOW THIS. the apostle gives us the answer in vers 15, the very last verse in the chapter. listen. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

did one see the answer to the woman problem? if not here it is, "she shall be saved in childbearing".

question, what type of Woman bear Children? .... the answer a "MARRIED ONE". meaning a WIFE. again the Greek word used here is
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman

The apostle is speaking about "WIVES"

take Note: if the apostle would have used the word G2338 θήλυς thelus below, then case closed, pack our bags and go home, NO, the Holy Spirit allowed the apostle use G1135 γυνή gune when read in context for the subject at hand was not directed to all women, but to wives.
G2338 θήλυς thelus (thee'-lïs) adj.
female.
[from thele (the nipple)]
KJV: female, woman

see the difference between to two words above. both can mean woman, but one must understand the context of the scripture that it is given in in order to determine the use of the word.

Just like in 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law". here the scripture uses
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.

and gives the answer why this word for woman is used, the very next verse. "35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church".

see how easy the bible answer itself. just like it answer itself back in 1 Timothy 2:15, she (the wife) will be saved in "CHILDBEARING".

it's amazing how the word of God answer itself .... IF WE LET IT.

pcy.

 

[Truth7t7]

LC,

For too long women have been relegated to an inferior role of teaching ministry in the church. I used to be of the view that women could not teach a mixed gathering, based on 1 Tim 2:12. I've changed my view after lengthy examination of the controversial passages.

See my article, The heresy of women preachers? Here I examine a broad range of issues surrounding women in ministry, including 1 Tim 2:12.

I have gone into more depth on 1 Tim 2:12 in, Must women never teach men in the church?

Please note that the word used for 'authority' in this verse is not the regular Greek noun for authority - exousia. Instead it is the Greek verb (infinitive), authentein, and this is the only appearance of the word in the entire NT. It is used in only a few other secular Greek sources. Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives its meaning as 'authority or domineer'. This is a domineering authority over men that is prohibited.

With the gift of teaching (1 Cor 12:28-29; Rom 12:6-7; and pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11-12 NIV), nowhere is it stated that these gifts are restricted to males only.

In fact, 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) states, 'Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you'. Brother and sisters in Christ are gifted with these gifts when the church gathers and that includes the gift of 'teaching'.

In none of the above verses is the gift of teacher or pastor-teacher stated to be restricted to men only. If the gift of pastor-teacher (in Eph 4:11 the Greek construction of pastors and teachers or pastor-teachers refers to one person) is meant to exclude women, then - in my understanding - we have interpretations that have information added by the interpreter.

Since women are not mentioned as being excluded from the ministry gift of pastor-teacher, to make 1 Tim 2:12 (written to Timothy in the Ephesian Church) exclude women from being pastor-teachers, we have a massive contradiction with the other Scriptures above.

To promote the supposed silence of women in the Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:34-35) is in contradiction with 1 Cor 11:5 where women can prophesy (which is done publicly in the church - 1 Cor 14:3-4). I explore the kind of silence required of these women in,

• Women wrongly closed down in ministry

• Are women supposed to be permanently silent in the church gathering?

Billy Graham said his daughter, Anne Graham Lotz, was the best preacher in his family. It is HERE on Anne Graham Lotz's homepage that there is the quote of Anne being the best preacher in the Graham family.

I am not an egalitarian feminist but an exegete and expositor who wants to interpret Scripture, based on what the Bible teaches. I don't find the silence of women in the pulpit to be biblical. This may come as a shock to some of you to hear this from an evangelical Christian.

See also N T Wright, ‘Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis’.

Oz

A woman is to keep silent in the church, she is not to usurp authority of the man, she is to learn from her husband at home.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[Willie T]

I guess flagrant Feminists have really made a lot of men frightened to death of anything but a mealy-mouthed woman who cowers like a timid mouse in the presence of men. And, sadly, some women seem to bask in that, also.

 

[OzSpen]

Well it does come as a shock since the Bible clearly forbids women to be in the pulpit. Unless you wish to expunge this portion of Scripture:

But I suffer not [ALLOW NOT or PERMIT NOT] a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12 KJB).
γυναικὶ δὲ διδάσκειν οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρός ἀλλ' εἶναι ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ

There is not a single translation which does not have this verse, and which does not say what this verse teaches. So what you are saying is that you are prepared to reject Bible truth when it does not suit you.

As a matter of fact, many evangelical churches have done exactly what you propose. Pick and choose the Scriptures that are *acceptable* and reject or re-interpret those which are not.

Since Peter has told us that all of Paul's epistles are to be regarded as Scripture, these are not merely the words of Paul, but they are the words of the Holy Spirit.

Enoch,

You have ignored the exegesis and exposition of 1 Tim 2:12 that I provided in #49. Especially see my article, Must women never teach men in the church?

First Tim 2:12 must be interpreted in the immediate context of 1 Tim 2 and especially in light of the whole of 1 Tim.

You have given me a repeat of the traditional interpretation that has closed down gifted female teaches in the pulpit or in a mixed gathering.

A consistent biblical interpretation of women in ministry is provided by this overview by N T Wright (who is no novice scholar), ‘Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis’.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I guess flagrant Feminists have really made a lot of men frightened to death of anything but a mealy-mouthed woman who cowers like a timid mouse in the presence of men. And, sadly, some women seem to bask in that, also.

Willie,

Now put that in plain language instead of mixed with sentimental metaphors.

Oz

 

[Willie T]

Willie,

Now put that in plain language instead of mixed with sentimental metaphors.

Oz

"Some men seem to have to find "authorization" to silence women they can't dominate."

 

[OzSpen]

A woman is to keep silent in the church, she is not to usurp authority of the man, she is to learn from her husband at home.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

7t7,

You are repeating the traditional line, which I have challenged with biblical exposition.

So women are to remain silent?

34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings (1 Cor 14:34-35 NLT).​

Yet this same book of 1 Cor 11:5 states, 'But a woman dishonors her head if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head' (NLT).

So it's OK for a woman to prophesy in that culture if she has her head covered. There is a massive contradiction between 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Cor 11:5 if the silence of women is maintained in the church. A woman can't prophesy with her mouth closed and by being silent in the church.

There is a way out of this dilemma. See my article: Women in ministry in I Corinthians: A brief inquiry

God is the God of truth and not of contradiction.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Well it does come as a shock since the Bible clearly forbids women to be in the pulpit.

Where does the Bible defend teaching 'in the pulpit'? I'm interested in the biblical basis for your statement.