Looking for advice: Can women be pastors

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LC627

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.
 
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amadeus

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Consider those God used, as for instance, Esther [queen], Deborah [Judge] and Rachel [shepherd girl]. And then again consider that the Bride of Christ is to consist of both males and females. It is really between you and God, but remember also that no matter which way you go someone will undoubtedly disagree with you. What does God want for you?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7
 

LC627

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Consider those God used, as for instance, Esther [queen], Deborah [Judge] and Rachel [shepherd girl]. And then again consider that the Bride of Christ is to consist of both males and females. It is really between you and God, but remember also that no matter which way you go someone will undoubtedly disagree with you. What does God want for you?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

I agree with that, God used many mighty women in the Bible. The scripture some use is, 1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
 

Triumph1300

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Women have a role to play in the church, there's no doubt about that.
Many women are mentioned in scripture doing great work for the Lord.
The first church in Europe was located in Lydia's house, a business woman with a heart for the Lord.
Many women are evangelists, prayer warriors, etc etc etc

As far are female pastors is concerned, I think that's out of place.
I would not belong to a church where a woman is the pastor.

In our town there are three churches with female pastors.
All three a feminists and two of them are lesbians.
(And all three are left wing radicals.)

Needless to say, these churches are not full gospel churches or apostolic churches.
(They also don't believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit)

Enough said.
 
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FHII

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Hate to say it, but I can't endorse women as pastors. It has bothing to do with their ability. Just that I don't see God approving and actually see him dissaproving.
Helps and even teachers: yes. Prophets, sure.
 

Triumph1300

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he scripture some use is, 1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

I believe that Paul wrote this to Timothy for a reason.
Timothy was a gifted young man.
Paul met Timothy in Lystra and he led him to the Lord.
Timothy was very capable and Paul began using him more and more.
Timothy travelled with Paul, facing every type of persecution and hardships.
But Timothy's weakness also showed up. (Nothing new, same today).
Paul in his letters deals with situations that young Timothy was dealing with while pastoring the church.
My believe is that there were rebellious women in that church causing trouble during their meetings.
But of course this is just my opinion.
-----------------------

In chapter 3 of 1 Timothy we read the condition for church leadership.
It all refers to men and their wives. (And children.)
 
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LC627

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I believe that Paul wrote this to Timothy for a reason.
Timothy was a gifted young man.
Paul met Timothy in Lystra and he led him to the Lord.
Timothy was very capable and Paul began using him more and more.
Timothy travelled with Paul, facing every type of persecution and hardships.
But Timothy's weakness also showed up. (Nothing new, same today).
Paul in his letters deals with situations that young Timothy was dealing with while pastoring the church.
My believe is that there were rebellious women in that church causing trouble during their meetings.
But of course this is just my opinion.
-----------------------

In chapter 3 of 1 Timothy we read the condition for church leadership.
It all refers to men and their wives. (And children.)

thank you, I'll read over that chapter.
 

Truth

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.

First I would like to just Say, for Me I do not think Women should be Pastors! Just my opinion,OK. But there are Scriptures that suggest that women should not be in Authority over Men.
! st Corinthians 11:3
3- But I want you to know that the HEAD of every Man is CHRIST, the HEAD of woman is Man, and the HEAD of CHRIST is GOD!!
So the order of Authority except able to God is, 1- God - 2 Christ - 3 Man - 4 Woman.
now in verse 4: it states! Every Man Praying or Prophesying, having His Head Covered, Dishonors His Head [Christ] This verse has nothing to do with a type of garment, hat, ball cap,or any other head covering. It has to do with That Man relinquishing His Authority to some other man.
take for instance, when we walk into a church, we willfully submit ourselves to what ever teaching there is for that day, so if what is being taught is not right, then we also have the right to un-submit ourselves and peacefully leave. the Man should not relinquish his Authority to any Pastor, Priest or any leader of any church, He is a Shepard that is to look out for everyone, but not a someone who has Authority over men, women or children, that is the Authority of the leader of the Family, Example- I once ask my Pastor to listen to a teaching on a DvD. and He refused, so I pressed the Issue, and He said that He could not watch it without his regional Pastor permission, Quote! He Is My Covering, so if my Pastor Prayed or Prophesied, then He Dishonored Christ, he had relinquished his Personal Authority to His Covering!!
Hope I made Sense
 
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Enoch111

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Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.
This is according to Scripture. God has given Christian men and women distinct roles within the home and the local church, and women may not preach, teach, or assume spiritual authority in the local assembly. So women cannot be pastors, since pastors are indeed elders. There are several passages in Scripture which are very clear about these issues.
 
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Truth

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.
You posted a [like] to my last response, with no response, SO!
I am also not trying to Debate!! OK, If you read !st Corinthians without the Traditional thought of what is being used for a covering, like a Vail, or any other physical garment type of covering then you may be able to understand what I was trying to express. I will give you one other example,OK, When a young person lives in their parents home, the father is their covering. and when a Father puts his daughter's hand into another man's hand, Her betrothed, then her man, just changed from her Father being her covering, to her Husband being her covering, and if the woman decides to do some thing without her husband's approval, then she has dishonored Her Covering, so on and so on, I hope this helps provide some clarity. Pray About It! This Chapter can be Confusing!
 

LC627

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You posted a [like] to my last response, with no response, SO!
I am also not trying to Debate!! OK, If you read !st Corinthians without the Traditional thought of what is being used for a covering, like a Vail, or any other physical garment type of covering then you may be able to understand what I was trying to express. I will give you one other example,OK, When a young person lives in their parents home, the father is their covering. and when a Father puts his daughter's hand into another man's hand, Her betrothed, then her man, just changed from her Father being her covering, to her Husband being her covering, and if the woman decides to do some thing without her husband's approval, then she has dishonored Her Covering, so on and so on, I hope this helps provide some clarity. Pray About It! This Chapter can be Confusing!

I will be praying about it! Thank you for your input and insight! I really do appreciate it! :)
 

amadeus

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@LC627
But... having read all that has been written here, remember that God will use what is available to accomplish His purpose. It is clear that God is no respecter of persons in the end of the matter, but He does have the spiritual role of male and the spiritual role of female, which correspond to the types or shadows found in the flesh of mankind.

As the natural women is to receive the seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. Consider in this Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives. Any natural man or natural woman who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman. Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man. Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is the Body (of Christ).

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring is of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real" world of churches, the preacher when he is presenting the Word is as the Father, but actually, as we know, he misses the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. Error on both parts but an ideal pattern exists if we are able to see it and to replicate it.


I don't say that we must accept natural women as our pastors, but for His reasons, God may indeed have called a natural woman to work in a spiritual role to present God's Word to others. Who are we to second guess Him? Proceed with prayer following the lead of the Holy Ghost.
 

Windmillcharge

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a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.
And straight away this is in direct contradiction of scripture.
A woman cannot exercise spiritual authority over her sons, but scripture says women are to raise their sons to be spiritual mature men.

What authority is used to lead a prayer meeting?

or a new convert is arguing with a mature femail Christian over doctrine. He is arguing in favour of false teaching she is correcting him. Who has the spiritual authority. or is she to be silent while other less mature Christians are lead astray.

I don't think women should preach, but when does teaching become preaching?
 

Truth7t7

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.
Your Church of Christ Is 100% In Line With God's Holy Bible, And 100% In Opposition To The Apostate Churches That Are Bringing Females And Homosexuals Into Places Of Leadership.

Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.

1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
 
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Butterfly

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I have heard some really good insightful words from women preachers over the years - so I do not consider that God cannot and does not use women within the body of Christ. Whether I would agree to a women pastor if was part of a local church, not sure.
I do really feel for you if you are not even allowed to lead a prayer group, that seems to take it to extremes. I have been a member in different churches over the years, and each one seemed to have differing views with regards to the role of women- However I never felt oppressed or restricted in any of them and led a few study evenings myself - the groups consisted of men and women. In one church they would not allow a women pastor, but they did allow women elders / deacons .......
I always felt that Paul was dealing with cultural issues of his time when he addressed the issue of ' women speaking in church ' - but so many people have differing opinions about the whole issue. The reality is that you are obviously part of a church that has quite strong views on the subject.
Butterfly
 

Truth7t7

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And straight away this is in direct contradiction of scripture.
A woman cannot exercise spiritual authority over her sons, but scripture says women are to raise their sons to be spiritual mature men.

What authority is used to lead a prayer meeting?

or a new convert is arguing with a mature femail Christian over doctrine. He is arguing in favour of false teaching she is correcting him. Who has the spiritual authority. or is she to be silent while other less mature Christians are lead astray.

I don't think women should preach, but when does teaching become preaching?
Inside the Church women are to remain silent, a woman is not to have authority over the man, regardless of what you believe spiritual maturity is. A woman is to learn from her husband at home.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 
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ScottA

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.
Indeed, the different ways that people interpret these matters can be confusing. But at the heart of what is intended for the church is quite simple.

First, men are not above women in authority, but rather in responsibility. They are not actually above women, but are assigned a role above women. It is to be considered a roll of service and not a roll of title. Likewise, a woman is not less than a man, but also assigned a roll, which is a service to the Lord and not to men, even though men benefit from their service just as women benefit from the service of men. The role of each is to properly represent the relationship that Christ has with the church, showing the Son (God with us) as the Head, Master, or Bride Groom, and the church as the bride and not the master, but coming under Christ. We do this because God has put all things under Christ and made a way for only One begotten into His spiritual kingdom and eternal life. This is the narrow way that leads to life everlasting.

Therefore, if we do not play our respective roles properly and misrepresent the plan of God to bring His church into the kingdom, some will not enter in. Our roles and responsibility are life and death for those who follow. In this way, all people, men and women alike, are viewed by God as women. Neither is above the other - we are all the weaker, and He the Master and Bride Groom. Thus, if a woman leads the church, she represents the fate of those who come under her as being sheep without a Shepard, without access to the kingdom, as people lead astray on another path than that prescribed by God for salvation.

The same is true of marriage between a man and a women. Therefore, if a man marries a man, they represent in their roles God with God, and the church goes unsaved. Likewise, if a woman marries a woman, they represent mankind with mankind, a church without God, or two brides with no Husband.

We do what we do, not because of who we are, but because of who God and Christ are, and we do not do what we do for ourselves, but for those who follow, that our representation is the truth from God for salvation. Anything less, is of no service to God, but is against His plan of salvation for His church.
 
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Windmillcharge

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Inside the Church women are to remain silent, a woman is not to have authority over the man, regardless of what you believe spiritual maturity is. A woman is to learn from her husband at home.

A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Please answer the questions I raised.
How is a woman to guide her sons in spiritual maters?
If a new Christian is talking about false doctrine he believes and is leading others astray, is a woman, who is a mature experience Christian, to be silent?

As for being silent in church. Please read the context, which makes it clear that Paul is talking/reaching about women asking their husbands questions about the sermon. In which case the quote has nothing to do with whether women can teach or not.

A question for you.

The missionary societies your church supports, how many single women are serving as missionary preachers and teachers in that society?
 

Triumph1300

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Ok, you folks have it all wrong.

Women needed to be silent in that church for a reason.

Timothy (and Paul) were preaching that the old man needed to be crucified.
The women in church started to holler and scream in protest because they thought Timothy (and Paul) were talking about their husbands going to be crucified.
Timothy told them to be silent and I don't blame him.

So now you all know!
 
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