Why were they CHOSEN then SCATTERED and then GATHERED; WHY?

[tooldtocare]

He promised him the Land...

Yes but it came with conditions and if they failed to comply with these conditions those promises would become null and void.

 

[Enoch111]

That is a lie

Obviously you don't believe the Bible regarding this.

 

[bbyrd009]

Obviously you don't believe the Bible regarding this.

i wouldn't prolly have called it a lie; i'm sure you don't mean to misrepresent Israel.
But there were conditions, and they were pretty obviously violated imo, i mean God divorced Israel into the bargain as well.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes but it came with conditions and if they failed to comply with these conditions that promises would become null and void.

and some other promises would take effect, which is just what happened i guess. Leviticus? "But if you?"

And then at the divorce decree, i mean Israel being sent off the land is pretty plain; it is imagining a connection with "fig tree blooming" to a country (rather than the nation) that can't really be justified imo;

hopefully it's obvious that you can't be Israel if they are Israel. There won't be any Jewish--or Fascist or Catholic--paradise imo, the OT makes that pretty plain?

 

[Ac28]

Israel was scattered but was never gathered, at least not by God. They will be though, just as soon as this present, 2000 year, all-Gentile period is finished - only about 45 more years left.

The formation of Israel in 1948 most certainly was not the result of the fulfillment of prophecy. That would be impossible since Israel was set aside in Ac 28:25-27, when Paul pronounced blindness and deafness on Israel, through the curse of Isa 6:9-10, for the 7th and last time in the Bible. Then, in vs 28, the salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles. Israel has not existed as a nation, in God's eyes, since 63AD. Although a few Jews have accepted Christ, the vast majority are still pig-headed unbelieving Talmudists. Christ said He wouldn't return until the nation Israel accepted Him, Mt 23:39, Acts 3:19-21. Since there is now no Israel and won't be until this present 2000 year parenthetical all-Gentile period is finished, in about 2063 (my guess), we won't see Christ before then.

When Israel was set aside, everything associated with Israel was also set aside - the Acts all-Israel church, Israel's rapture, Israel's gifts of the Spirit, etc., etc. The church in Acts was all-Israel because the Gentiles in the church were all grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel. The ONLY church for anyone living today in found ONLY in Paul's 7 books written after Acts. Nothing about this church is found in Paul's Acts books, like Rom, Thess, Cor, Gal, Hebrews.

No Gentile has been given the right, in scripture, to incorporate anything EVER given to Israel as their own. Everything given to Israel, belongs ONLY to Israel. This includes everything from the 10 Commandments to the Great Commission to the Lord's Prayer to the Sermon on the Mount to the rapture - you name it. The Denominational Church today is basically a Jewish synagogue that teaches Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles. Just because you claim all this Jewish-only stuff, doesn't mean you'll get any of it. In fact, the only things you can possibly get are in the 99+% Gentile church found only in Paul's post-Acts books. If you would only remove your Acts spectacles, you would easily find your blessings in the new church found only in Paul's post-Acts epistles are far, far, far better than anything EVER given to Israel. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

That is what 2Tim 2:15, right division, is all about. That verse, 2Tim 2:15, is found ONLY in Paul's post-Acts epistles and, like most everything in those epistles, it doesn't apply to any of the other 59 books. Right division isn't needed for those other 59 books because they are 100% Israel. Those 7 post-Acts books are an all-Gentile island in an all-Israel sea. I'm convinced right division means to correctly cut God's word only once and that cut is made so that everything on one side of the cut is all-Israel and everything on the other side of the cut is all-Gentile. The only place in the Bible that will do that is Acts 28:28. By cutting there, the all-Gentile post-Acts books of Paul will be totally separated from the other 59, all-Israel books. Nothing I can think of given to Israel in those 59 books applies to anyone living today. Most everything given to Israel is totally different that what is given to the Gentiles. If you don't rightly divide, there will be dozens of contradictory things, like, for example, your Hope and Calling. The Acts calling was the New Jerusalem and today's post-Acts Calling is to the highest Heaven, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God. Without the removal of the New Jerusalem from your wish list, there will obviously be confusion. That's why God approves of those who rightly divide (see 2Tim 2:15). He wants you to know what belongs to you, only, and what belongs to Israel, only.

Those other 59 books aren't taken away from you, since, like the whole Bible, they are fully inspired, contain tons of information for your learning, and must never be neglected. However, when it comes to things given directly to you, like your hope and calling in Heaven and the "appearing", instead of the "rapture", you'll only find those things in Paul's 7 after Acts books and nowhere else. The only people in the Bible that are going to Heaven are those members of the church found only in Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim Titus, and Philemon - Search & See.

Summary
1- Nothing given to people in those other 59 books applies to you unless it is repeated in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. The only thing I know of that was transferred to us, that was given to people in the other 59 books, is Paul's Gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4
2- If anything mentioned in the other 59 books contradicts what is said in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, that portion in the other 59 books must be discarded from your doctrine.

Here's an author's 100% true assessment of what Israel is today.

"The Israeli government, today, is made up of unbelieving Jews administering a socialistic government which depends mostly upon the U.S.A. for its sustenance. When the true descendants of the three Patriarchs occupy the Land, they will depend on the LORD their God, and in no-one else will they trust. They will be totally dependent upon the Lord Jesus Christ. And, He will meet every need of His re-gathered people."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why were they CHOSEN then SCATTERED and then GATHERED; WHY?

(Deu7:6 KJV) For thou art aholy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself,above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(Deu7:8 KJV) But because theLORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had swornunto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand,and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand ofPharaoh King of Egypt.

(Deu7:9 KJV) Know thereforethat the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepethcovenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandmentsto a thousand generations;

(Deu7:11 KJV) Thou shalttherefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments,which I command thee this day, to do them.

(Deu7:12 KJV) Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he swore unto thy fathers:

(Deu7:13 KJV) And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kin,and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

------- THEN FOR SOME REASON--------
---------EVERYTHING CHANGED-----------
Why?​

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land,they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings:their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon theland, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ido not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but formine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among theheathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, Ohouse of Israel.

What happened/will happen to the chosen ones?

Chosen, scattered (dispersed) into many nations and then gathered out of many nations, in the sight of the heathen, so that all the heathen would see the great mercy of God shown on His people. Our life is hidden in the Lord(Christ). The Lord is the Word. Our life is hidden within the Word of God.(Continue in the Word and the truth will set you free) (whom the Son sets free is free indeed)(I am come so they may have life). We all went into bondage so that God’s mercy (which He delights in) would be revealed, which is in the Son.

John 1:1-4
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The only way our life is hidden in the Word of God...is through Mercy. (His great name’s sake). Without mercy our names would not be in the Lamb’s book of life.

1 Samuel 12:22
[22] For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.


Ezekiel 39:23-29
[23] And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. [24] According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. [25] Therefore thus saith the Lord God ; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and —have mercy—upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; [26] After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. [27] When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and —am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;—[28] Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. [29] Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for —I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God .—

 

[Ac28]

Chosen, scattered (dispersed) into many nations and then gathered out of many nations, in the sight of the heathen, so that all the heathen would see the great mercy of God shown on His people. Our life is hidden in the Lord(Christ). The Lord is the Word. Our life is hidden within the Word of God.(Continue in the Word and the truth will set you free) (whom the Son sets free is free indeed)(I am come so they may have life). We all went into bondage so that God’s mercy (which He delights in) would be revealed, which is in the Son.

John 1:1-4
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The only way our life is hidden in the Word of God...is through Mercy. (His great name’s sake). Without mercy our names would not be in the Lamb’s book of life.

1 Samuel 12:22
[22] For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.


Ezekiel 39:23-29
[23] And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. [24] According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. [25] Therefore thus saith the Lord God ; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and —have mercy—upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; [26] After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. [27] When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and —am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;—[28] Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. [29] Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for —I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God .—

1- All prophecy involves Israel.
2- Israel hasn't existed since they were set aside, in God's eyes, for not accepting Christ,in Ac 28:28, about 63AD.
3- Therefore, no prophecy has been fulfilled in the last 1950 years, or thereabouts.
4- Everything Christendom thinks they know about Israel becoming a nation in 1948 is unBiblical.

In general, except for mainly salvation and deity, the greater the number of Christians that believe a certain thing, the greater the odds that that belief is unBiblical.

 

[bbyrd009]

only about 45 more years left.

but ty for playing anyway

2- Israel hasn't existed since they were set aside, in God's eyes, for not accepting Christ,in Ac 28:28, about 63AD.

well you might not be Israel, but wadr i am Israel, and i think you are forcing a human definition there of Israel as a country rather than a nation; Romans 9 even discusses this subject?
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
88 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.

 

[Ac28]

but ty for playing anyway

well you might not be Israel, but wadr i am Israel, and i think you are forcing a human definition there of Israel as a country rather than a nation; Romans 9 even discusses this subject?
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
88 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.

It's impossible that you are associated with the Israel of God in any way, today. You are not Abraham's seed. That stopped in 63AD, along with everything else associated with Israel. There is no Israel today, period. Essentially, everyone on the planet is a Gentile, today. The only books of the Bible that tells what belongs to Gentiles are Paul's 7 books written after Acts. None of the other 59 all-Israel books contain anything about your hope or calling or anything else you've been given by God, except your salvation. What was given to Israel is totally different than what is given to Gentiles. That's the purpose of right division, 2Tim 2:15, to eliminate from your doctrine those things specifically given to Israel throughout the Bible, starting with Gen 12. Also, what little was given to those Gentiles grafted into Israel in the Acts church, doesn't belong to you either.

Here are some of the things that Israel had, and the Gentiles did not have, during Acts. If the Gentiles didn't have them then, why on earth would they have the now? Note that only Israel had the promises. Do you realize that, if these things were true today and Israel had the service of God, you, a Gentile, couldn't preach or teach? Without the adoption, you would be only a child of God and not a son. Even a natural born child of a man had to go through an adoption procedure before he was legally considered to be a son. Only sons could inherit and, if you were a son, the inheritance would be automatic.
Rom 9.4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Here's a passage in Ephesians, one of Paul's post-Acts books, that tells what the uncircumcision (the Gentiles) did not have during Acts
Eph 11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past (Gen 12 thru Acts 28) Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

When Gentiles steal what they think are the good things from Israel, they don't take the bad stuff, or obey the rules that Gentiles were under at that time

Israel is a country, but it certainly isn't sanctioned by God. Those fake Talmudic Jews have promoted their Grand Hoax by saying they have God's authority to own that land and they are there due to the fulfillment of prophecy. There will be some real Israelites that God will find and place in that land, when He does fulfill that prophecy, but it sure won't be the fake, unbelieving group that is in there now. Somewhere, though, there is a remnant.

 

[bbyrd009]

It's impossible that you are associated with the Israel of God in any way, today. You are not Abraham's seed. That stopped in 63AD, along with everything else associated with Israel.

you don't know what "Israel" means then i guess; you wanna read it again, together maybe? It's NT and everything. I mean granted some religious English wise/blind guy translated it, but we can go to the Lex, i prefer that anyway.
I am Israel, Abraham's seed, etc, and i have direct Quotes for this.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.

Also, what little was given to those Gentiles grafted into Israel in the Acts church, doesn't belong to you either.

There are no Jew or Gentile in the kingdom, so you can be a Gentile if you want, and you can pretend i am, and pretend that 63ad matters if you like, but it won't stand up to Scripture wadr. Not even in English i don't think

 

[bbyrd009]

Israel is a country

ya...no, it's not, sorry. I mean you have already admitted that that one is the counterfeit?
Israel is a nation, and it is alive and well

 

[bbyrd009]

Eph 11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past (Gen 12 thru Acts 28) Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

When Gentiles steal what they think are the good things from Israel, they don't take the bad stuff, or obey the rules that Gentiles were under at that time

you just need to keep reading a little further?
Ephesians 2
13But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the bloodz of the Messiah.
14For He is our peace, who made both groups oneaa and tore down thedividing wall of hostility. In His flesh,
15He made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that He might createab in Himself oneac new man from the two, resulting in peace.
16He did this so that He might reconcile both to God in one bodyad through the cross and put the hostility to death byit.ae
17When the Messiah came, He proclaimed the good newsaf of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.ag
18For through Him we both have accessah by one Spirit to the Father.ai
19So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the •saints, and members of God’s household,

 

[Ac28]

He

you just need to keep reading a little further?
Ephesians 2
13But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the bloodz of the Messiah.
14For He is our peace, who made both groups oneaa and tore down thedividing wall of hostility. In His flesh,
15He made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that He might createab in Himself oneac new man from the two, resulting in peace.
16He did this so that He might reconcile both to God in one bodyad through the cross and put the hostility to death byit.ae
17When the Messiah came, He proclaimed the good newsaf of peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.ag
18For through Him we both have accessah by one Spirit to the Father.ai
19So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the •saints, and members of God’s household,

He did make both groups one. Since there is no nation of Israel today, everyone comes to God as an individual. There is no law because there is no Israel. We are fellow citizens.

The saved Gentiles weren't members of God's household during Acts.

 

[bbyrd009]

Since there is no nation of Israel today

there is no valid country called Israel, but there is a thriving nation, alluded to @ For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no law because there is no Israel

ya, i've dealt with this before too. The law was not abolished, and this is something else that you cannot Quote. Not one jot or tittle of the law has been nullified, obviously, as we have our own set of laws derived from the Decalogue, and you have to obey them, or you go to jail. The Law is holy even.

The fact that it is also inadequate does not mean that it is nullified, and we have in fact written grace into our laws in recognition of this inadequacy; it's why cops give expectant parents on the way to delivery a pass for speeding; it's how we got jury nullification, all things that the kingdom of Israel did not have; under their law almost everything required blood right,
According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
and that law was nullified; and all this is discussed by Christ and Paul too

For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished.

 

[bbyrd009]

According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

See, God needs no blood to be shed for transgressions of the law; that is strictly people that do that

 

[bbyrd009]

The saved Gentiles weren't members of God's household during Acts.

from the perspective of the world, i agree

 

[Jay Ross]

Israel was scattered but was never gathered, at least not by God. They will be though, just as soon as this present, 2000 year, all-Gentile period is finished - only about 45 more years left.

The formation of Israel in 1948 most certainly was not the result of the fulfillment of prophecy. That would be impossible since Israel was set aside in Ac 28:25-27, when Paul pronounced blindness and deafness on Israel, through the curse of Isa 6:9-10, for the 7th and last time in the Bible. Then, in vs 28, the salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles. Israel has not existed as a nation, in God's eyes, since 63AD. Although a few Jews have accepted Christ, the vast majority are still pig-headed unbelieving Talmudists. Christ said He wouldn't return until the nation Israel accepted Him, Mt 23:39, Acts 3:19-21. Since there is now no Israel and won't be until this present 2000 year parenthetical all-Gentile period is finished, in about 2063 (my guess), we won't see Christ before then.

When Israel was set aside, everything associated with Israel was also set aside - the Acts all-Israel church, Israel's rapture, Israel's gifts of the Spirit, etc., etc. The church in Acts was all-Israel because the Gentiles in the church were all grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel. The ONLY church for anyone living today in found ONLY in Paul's 7 books written after Acts. Nothing about this church is found in Paul's Acts books, like Rom, Thess, Cor, Gal, Hebrews.

<snip>

It seems to me that you do not understand that the 1948 return of some of Abraham's descendants was in fulfilment of God's prophetic word to Abraham in Genesis 15 : 16. In this prophecy, God indicates that He will not be involved in their return. Interestingly, the return, from my understanding of history, occurred close to 4,000 years after the Birth of Isaac.

Now Israel was set aside as you have put it because of the passage found in Exodus 20 : 4 - 6 where God said that the iniquities of the fathers, i.e. idolatrous worship during the first 2 ages of their existence as a nation would be visited upon their children and their children's children in the third and the fourth (age).

Also in Ezekiel 34: 11 - 16 God informs us that He will seek out His lost Sheep and that He will gather them to plant them in good fertile soil so that they can feed on the Mountains of Israel, the rock that will be coming down out of heaven when God establishes His ever lasting Kingdom here on the earth during the time of these kings spoken about in the statue prophecy concerning the Land of Babylon. When Israel seeks Christ's terms of peace as Christ told them in Luke 14, then they will be saved when they accept them, at the time of the judgement of the heathen kings of the earth on the earth which occurs at the same time as the judgement of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts in heaven (Isa 24:21-22) as Paul tells us in Romans 11 : 25-26 after the fulfilment of the 2,300 years of the trampling of the sanctuary of God by them, that all of Israel will be saved.

Christ also told us when Israel would be save in the Lesson of the Fig Tree budding that heralds the time of the beginning of the summer season of harvest.

The Nation of Israel will have there part to play in this harvest after God renews the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations Covenant in our near future with them as set out in Jeremiah 31: 31 ff.

Now Jesus told the parable of the owner of the harvest having two sons who he asked to go out into the vineyard to work, the first son initially rejected his father's request, but relented later and did so. The second son told his father that he would do so but did not. (Matthew 21 : 28 - 32)

I wonder if this parable was Christ's reflection on Israel and the Gentile Church.

All of the above is food for thought.

Shalom

 

[tooldtocare]

There are two different aspects about “Israel” going on here.
The first (1) is the biblical view that is cut in stone and we can spent eternity debating the importance of one verse to another and then we have-----]
The second (2) debate.

The second debate is about the here and now. If the Jews had chosen some other name for their stolen country something other than “Israel”; the context of this debate/discussion would be totally different. But they didn’t so they are bound by the name they chose and the covenant they should have with God and His directives.

Based on that view they have failed. They lie, steal and murder in spite of God’s teachings.

For this they will face the consequences. And these consequences will occur in your lifetime and mine.

Ezekiel

25And you, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

26Thus says the Lord GOD; Remove the turban, and take off the crown: this shall not remain the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

27I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he comes whose right it is; and I will give it to him.

31And I will pour out my indignation upon you, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy.

32You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; you shall be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

Jewish population by country - Wikipedia


The End Is Near

 

[bbyrd009]

Here's an author's 100% true assessment of what Israel is today.

ha, 100% true huh, are you sure?