Romans 13:1-5?

[VictoryinJesus]

I have questions concerning Romans 13:1-5 [1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

All of it actually is the question, but a few are? “There is no power but of God” ? What does it mean there is NO power but of God? Then Satan has no power except what is given?

“...for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” ...?

2 Corinthians 5:11-13
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

“Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord...”...?

 

[bbyrd009]

Then Satan has no power except what is given?

“...for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” ...?

"pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name" :)

 

[bbyrd009]

“Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord...”...?

a dialectic statement is being made; a perspective is being addressed/replied to, imo. We pretty much all come to God from a fear of hell right. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. So iow you are likely reading a statement pitched to those at the beginning. i'm still pretty new to this, and i'm not sure, but i am noticing that whenever the Bible says "knowing" in that syntax a TIC statement is about to be made, a sense of this can be gotten from here, but they are subtle and you have to read with one eye. "We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that" etcetc, see, who do you know who rejoices in their trials? God is even personified as Being in Anguish and Agony at Christ's suffering, right.

so i know this is weird, but "knowing" usually means "not knowing" in a certain sense, even if what is supposed to be known is Absolute Truth. Jesus did this with several of the Apostles at one point or another, the most famous one being His discourse to them about how they are given to understand, but they obviously do not understand, at that point at least; but that part is just ignored.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

a dialectic statement is being made; a perspective is being addressed/replied to, imo. We pretty much all come to God from a fear of hell right. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. So iow you are likely reading a statement pitched to those at the beginning. i'm still pretty new to this, and i'm not sure, but i am noticing that whenever the Bible says "knowing" in that syntax a TIC statement is about to be made, a sense of this can be gotten from here, but they are subtle and you have to read with one eye. "We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that" etcetc, see, who do you know who rejoices in their trials? God is even personified as Being in Anguish and Agony at Christ's suffering, right.

so i know this is weird, but "knowing" usually means "not knowing" in a certain sense, even if what is supposed to be known is Absolute Truth. Jesus did this with several of the Apostles at one point or another, the most famous one being His discourse to them about how they are given to understand, but they obviously do not understand, at that point at least; but that part is just ignored.

Not sure what you mean here. I guess my main question in one of submission. For instance, I can’t look the verses up right now; but slaves told to submit to masters even when they are wrong. Or wives to submit to a husband that may be wrong. When you are falsely accused. The chapter before says: Romans 12:20-21 [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

I’ve been reading about conscience and one conscience being convicted by our testimony. Is this in the behavior? As Jesus did not defend himself against the darkness but yet remained true to the Father. Another example would be Stephen, and later Paul’s conviction for what he had done to all the Christians. I’ve heard testimonies of opposers later being convicted over their victims that held to Christ and portrayed the opposite of cruelty but rather forgiveness when it seems impossible and unlikely. So I am asking when the word says: “For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil” ...does this mean to do good in the face of evil...because it is ordained by God unto good works? Or not even close?

1 Peter 4:14-15
[14] If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. [15] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

 

[bbyrd009]

slaves told to submit to masters even when they are wrong

i'd need a Quote, imo you have added "even when they are wrong."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@bbyrd009 regarding the “terror of the Lord” Which I believe. A verse that stood out this morning while reading: 1 Timothy 3:6 [6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. —is this the pit?

Romans 5:18
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 8:1-2
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i'd need a Quote, imo you have added "even when they are wrong."

1 Peter 2:18-19
[18] Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. [19] For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

 

[Nancy]

"pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name" :)

 

[Enoch111]

All of it actually is the question, but a few are? “There is no power but of God” ? What does it mean there is NO power but of God?

This passage should be understood as below, and it speaks of lawful governments:

EVERYONE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO THEIR GOVERNMENT
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.

ALL HUMAN AUTHORITY ULTIMATELY COMES FROM GOD
For there is no power but of God:

GOD ALLOWS HUMAN AUTHORITIES TO EXIST
...the powers that be are ordained of God.

RESISTING GOVERNMENTS MEANS RESISTING WHAT GOD HAS ORDAINED
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [condemnation or judgment]

HUMAN AUTHORITIES ARE NOT A THREAT TO LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

EXECUTIONERS SERVE GOD WHEN THEY EXECUTE EVILDOERS
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

CHRISTIANS THEREFORE HAVE TWO REASONS TO BE LAW-ABIDING
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

CHRISTIANS SHOULD PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

CHRISTIANS SHOULD GIVE TO ALL THEIR "DUES"
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you Enoch111. I’m going to have to think on that one awhile.

EXECUTIONERS SERVE GOD WHEN THEY EXECUTE EVILDOERS
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil

I’m not sure I would agree that the “he” spoken of in “he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid;” Is as you say since we are told to not bear the mark of the beast.

...confused

I’ve always related “he is the minister of God to thee for good.” With Romans 8:28-29 [28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

HUMAN AUTHORITIES ARE NOT A THREAT TO LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

“Not a terror to good works, but to evil.” Goes back to “the terror of the Lord”. 2 Corinthians 5:11 [11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Lamentations 2:22
[22] Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the Lord's anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.

John 3:36 [36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Enoch111]

Is as you say since we are told to not bear the mark of the beast.

As I mentioned, Romans 13 is about lawful governments. The reign of the Antichrist (the Beast) is totally unlawful and blasphemous, since he will present himself deceptively as God and Christ, and seek to make everyone an idolator and worshipper of Satan. And in that case people must resist the government and the mark.

 

[bbyrd009]

1 Timothy 3:6 [6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. —is this the pit?

ah, i would read a couple other versions to get a better sense of the v, http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_timothy/3-6.htm, nasb (the English version this Lex uses) reads "the condemnation incurred by the devil."
"is this the pit?" well i guess spiritually speaking yes, as long as we understand no one is going anywhere most likely

 

[bbyrd009]

1 Peter 2:18-19
[18] Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. [19] For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

ok, so wrong in a sense at least; but of course we are supposed to turn the other cheek to anyone, so two concepts are kind of being combined here. HCSB reads "household slaves," so we get a diff sense there i guess. Imo "beautiful are the feet" is not being negated, if your "master" is a jerk and you are not a slave bam walk; but also if you subject yourself to someone, a king say, as long as you are a subject, then do it for God, is imo the point there

 

[Philip James]

Rebellion is never the answer..

The Church conquered Rome, not by the sword but by love!

Pax!

 

[bbyrd009]

Rome seems to have regained the upper hand soon enough nonetheless i guess

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I have questions concerning Romans 13:1-5 [1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

All of it actually is the question, but a few are? “There is no power but of God” ? What does it mean there is NO power but of God? Then Satan has no power except what is given?

The Book of Job testifies to Satan needing God's permission to do anything twice in regards to afflicting Job.

“...for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” ...?

2 Corinthians 5:11-13
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

“Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord...”...?

We are living in a fallen world with sinful people; one can imagine the Lord holding back evil as much as He wills to, but just as a christian has been warned against sowing to the flesh unless he reaps corruption, so can sinful men as they can get worse and worse.

The demons called Legion recognized the power of authority of Jesus Christ as God, but when we see all the evil in the world and in our lives, I can understand why believers have to wonder.... and yet we are not seeing everything that is going on either. It is in that, believers may find comfort that Jesus Christ is Lord anyway. In trying times, the Lord has been known to intervene, and sometimes beforehand too when we are trusting Him to.

People read Psalm 23rd at funerals, but the words are for the living in facing the challenges of the day with the loss of a loved one as well as having hope in Him to face any trial for tomorrow.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ok, so wrong in a sense at least; but of course we are supposed to turn the other cheek to anyone, so two concepts are kind of being combined here. HCSB reads "household slaves," so we get a diff sense there i guess. Imo "beautiful are the feet" is not being negated, if your "master" is a jerk and you are not a slave bam walk; but also if you subject yourself to someone, a king say, as long as you are a subject, then do it for God, is imo the point there

Still considering.

Acts 23:1-5
[1] And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. [2] And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. [3] Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? [4] And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? [5] Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.