Eternal Security

[1stCenturyLady]

That verse applies to unbelieving Jews, not believing Messianics.

Its a mindset that some Messianics have never discarded.

When someone doesn't have the Holy Spirit they are still alive to the flesh. They have no power over sin, and hold to the law for redemption. They cannot relate to a life not under the law, so accuse the Spirit-filled with lawlessness. Typical.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe the NC is bilateral and conditional.

Yahweh’s Part
Yahweh will write His laws in the new hearts of His people (Jer 31:33; Ezek 36:26).
Yahweh will cause His people to “know” Him far deeper than they have ever known Him before (Jer 31:34).
Yahweh will forgive the sins of His people (Jer 31:34; Ezek 36:25).
Yahweh will dwell in the hearts of His people by putting His Holy Spirit within them (Ezek 36:26-27).
Yahweh will cause His people to keep His statutes and judgments through the indwelling Holy Spirit (Ezek 36:27; John 16:13).
Yahweh will give His people the promised land (Ezek 36:24; 37:26).
Yahweh will multiply His people once they are in the land (Ezek 37:26).
Yahweh will dwell in His sanctuary / temple which will be in the midst of His people (Ezek 37:26-28).

Man’s Part
1) Man must confess the Master Yeshua and believe in his resurrection – “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Master Yeshua, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10).

The New Testament is unilateral and unconditional.
Man has nothing to do with it...
We just need to be a part of it...it requires nothing else.

 

[gadar perets]

Its a mindset that some Messianics have never discarded.

Is that your assumption or you know that to be fact?

When someone doesn't have the Holy Spirit they are still alive to the flesh. They have no power over sin, and hold to the law for redemption. They cannot relate to a life not under the law, so accuse the Spirit-filled with lawlessness. Typical.

Yeshua himself will accuse supposedly Spirit filled believers of lawlessness as well.

Matthew 7:22-23 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'​

 

[gadar perets]

The New Testament is unilateral and unconditional.
Man has nothing to do with it...
We just need to be a part of it...it requires nothing else.

By "New Testament" I assume you mean "New Covenant" as well?

So we do not need to receive Yeshua as Savior to enter the New Covenant or to continue abiding in him and obey him to remain in the NC?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The New Testament is unilateral and unconditional.
Man has nothing to do with it...
We just need to be a part of it...it requires nothing else.

Are you saying you are a Universalist? In other words, that accepting Jesus is not necessary, nor anything we do, but that all are saved? That is so wrong.

 

[Nancy]

I agree. However, to continue your statement, "you will not "have any other Gods before Me" you will not, "covet your neighbors wife" you will not bear false witness, or steal or break the Sabbath, or ..."

I guess I assumed you knew the rest.
If you get angry at your brother, even once...then you broke every single one of the 10 commandments...since Jesus raised the bar on "murder"...same if you even look on a woman with lust...bam-did it again.
And, what about the rest of the many, many "laws"...do you ever wear clothes made from mixed materials? Eat shellfish? If we are "free indeed" as Christians, why are you still in chains? Do you not find that once you have the power of the Holy Spirit living in you that, you no longer like or enjoy how sin feels anymore? Sin does not "fit" the new creation that is (should be) you anymore? If not, then I would have to question His power in my life. A life lived in His will, gladly and willingly to me, is a truly changed heart. One that loves and lives God's laws written on our hearts.

I beg to differ. The Bema and the Great White Throne are two different thrones. The Bema is Pilate’s throne room where Jesus stood and was judged by Pilate. While the GWT is Jesus’ throne where He and the believers will judge the nations of the world.

There is no event that supposedly believers will receive a reward. Luke 18:28-30 states:
28) Then Peter said, Lo, we have left aii, and followed thee,
29) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wifek, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
30) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Don’t rely on the work of others especially when you don’t check whether their work is faithful to the Word of God or not.

To God Be The Glory

The Bema Seat is for believers, whose salvation has already been secured by faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The GWT is judgement upon those who never accepted Christ. Revelation 20:11-15 describes the GWT judgement.
BTW-my belief is that these judgement s are completed at the same time.

 

[GodsGrace]

For @gadar perets
For @Episkopos

Here are some links to the Covenants:

THE EIGHT COVENANTS OF THE BIBLE - Scofield Biblical Institute

http://firstcentral.church/images/Lesson_02.pdf

What are the covenants in the Bible?

What are the different covenants in the Bible?

God’s signs and seals of the covenant-promise

 

[GodsGrace]

By "New Testament" I assume you mean "New Covenant" as well?

So we do not need to receive Yeshua as Savior to enter the New Covenant or to continue abiding in him and obey him to remain in the NC?

See post 487

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Eat shellfish?

You're asking a Hebrew if they've eaten shellfish? Whether Jewish or Messianic, I would wager a lot he's never tasted it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you saying you are a Universalist? In other words, that accepting Jesus is not necessary, nor anything we do, but that all are saved? That is so wrong.

Oh...sorry.
I meant to type New Covenant!
see post 487

I'm not going to debate the covenants.
They are established,,,it's not for US to establish them.

 

[Nancy]

You're asking a Hebrew if they've eaten shellfish? Whether Jewish or Messianic, I would wager a lot he's never tasted it.

You're asking a Hebrew if they've eaten shellfish? Whether Jewish or Messianic, I would wager a lot he's never tasted it.

No, I was replying to a self proclaimed Christian who thinks we are still under the law. Pretty simple, I would say.

 

[Nancy]

The Yeshua I present is the Messiah of Scripture, but who is misrepresented by Christians. You have turned him into a God/Man who teaches his people its OK to break God's laws because they no longer apply. What now? Christians need to reexamine their teachings and return to the true apostolic faith of the first century.

I thought this forum was for Christians only??

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Oh...sorry.
I meant to type New Covenant!
see post 487

I'm not going to debate the covenants.
They are established,,,it's not for US to establish them.

You didn't answer my question, and my question did not have to do with covenants, but asking if you believe all are saved. Is that what you believe the New Covenant is about? A universal, unconditional saving of everyone? You don't have to debate it, but I would like to know what you believe.

 

[Episkopos]

For @gadar perets
For @Episkopos

Here are some links to the Covenants:

THE EIGHT COVENANTS OF THE BIBLE - Scofield Biblical Institute

http://firstcentral.church/images/Lesson_02.pdf

What are the covenants in the Bible?

What are the different covenants in the Bible?

God’s signs and seals of the covenant-promise

You sent me to a twaddle site that teaches this? Do you have any actual biblical support for your position....beyond a Dispensationalist (heretical) website?

 

[Episkopos]

Oh...sorry.
I meant to type New Covenant!
see post 487

I'm not going to debate the covenants.
They are established,,,it's not for US to establish them.

Do you know what Dispensationalism is? I think you need to learn about the various doctrines of men and see how they difer from the truth found in the bible.

 

[gadar perets]

I guess I assumed you knew the rest.
If you get angry at your brother, even once...then you broke every single one of the 10 commandments...since Jesus raised the bar on "murder"...same if you even look on a woman with lust...bam-did it again.
And, what about the rest of the many, many "laws"...do you ever wear clothes made from mixed materials? Eat shellfish?

I endeavor to obey every law that I am able to. If I fail, I confess my sin, receive forgiveness and continue endeavoring to sin no more.

If we are "free indeed" as Christians, why are you still in chains?

I am not the one living in sin. Yeshua freed me from sin and obedience to the law through the power of the Holy Spirit keeps me from sinning regularly. Those who do NOT obey the law are in chains to sin since they sin daily.

Do you not find that once you have the power of the Holy Spirit living in you that, you no longer like or enjoy how sin feels anymore? Sin does not "fit" the new creation that is (should be) you anymore? If not, then I would have to question His power in my life. A life lived in His will, gladly and willingly to me, is a truly changed heart. One that loves and lives God's laws written on our hearts.

Of course. That is why I desire to obey the law. I hate sin. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, I must keep the law to avoid sin. You talk about the law written in your heart, but where is the evidence of the Sabbath written in your heart? Do you obey that law? Do you abstain from eating shellfish? Do you abstain from wearing mixed materials?

 

[Episkopos]

Is that your assumption or you know that to be fact?


Yeshua himself will accuse supposedly Spirit filled believers of lawlessness as well.

Matthew 7:22-23 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'​

And you take that to mean that they weren't Sabbath keepers as you are? How do you know you are not in the very group that you accuse others of being in? Would that be such a stretch?

Lawlessness in this case is the sin of iniquity. it is mixing the things of the world with holiness...and it is mixing covenants. In the end...it is mixture.

Notice this...

Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

I endeavor to obey every law that I am able to. If I fail, I confess my sin, receive forgiveness and continue endeavoring to sin no more.


I am not the one living in sin. Yeshua freed me from sin and obedience to the law through the power of the Holy Spirit keeps me from sinning regularly. Those who do NOT obey the law are in chains to sin since they sin daily.


Of course. That is why I desire to obey the law. I hate sin. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, I must keep the law to avoid sin. You talk about the law written in your heart, but where is the evidence of the Sabbath written in your heart? Do you obey that law? Do you abstain from eating shellfish? Do you abstain from wearing mixed materials?

But you are mixing materials my friend...you are mixing covenants....and judging others who don't.

 

[gadar perets]

See post 487

A simple yes or no would have sufficed.

 

[gadar perets]

You're asking a Hebrew if they've eaten shellfish? Whether Jewish or Messianic, I would wager a lot he's never tasted it.

Actually, I have tasted it as well as pig meat in my unbelieving days. I gave them up when I found out my Heavenly Father considers eating such unclean flesh as abominable. He is absolutely disgusted by it.