Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[amadeus]

Did anyone coach you on how to speak in tongues? Did you understand what you were saying?

It is not presumption on your part that everyone who speaks in tongues today had to be coached? Your words speak I would guess from your own limited personal experience and what you have read. You need to go back and read a little more in the scriptures just exactly what faith is. The good knowledge, the real knowledge comes from the Holy Ghost. Try talking to God sincerely asking of Him without any preconceived ideas how you think things are or should be. Without God's help you can spend 10 hours a day in the Bible not understand one thing correctly.

 

[Dave L]

It is not presumption on your part that everyone who speaks in tongues today had to be coached? Your words speak I would guess from your own limited personal experience and what you have read. You need to go back and read a little more in the scriptures just exactly what faith is. The good knowledge, the real knowledge comes from the Holy Ghost. Try talking to God sincerely asking of Him without any preconceived ideas how you think things are or should be. Without God's help you can spend 10 hours a day in the Bible not understand one thing correctly.

Were you coached?

 

[Dave L]

Some people may certainly go by their feelings rather than following the Holy Ghost as they make their decisions about attending church and about God. However, do you presume that no one is really led by God today? Do you so easily put God in a box and limit the Holy One of Israel? Again, I repeat to you this verse:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

You will say you follow the scriptures, but a lot of those people who disagree with you on this point also strive to follow the scriptures. How many different churches groups [churches or denominations] with contradictory viewpoints follow the Bible as faithfully as they are able? Are they all wrong because they disagree with you? Who set up you on your pedestal?

I admit my fallibility. Hopefully you also do...

The truth sets us free. And I know the difference between my Charismatic years and today.

 

[Dave L]

And so you decided that the best thing for you to do was to quench the Spirit of God and to teach others that it was always wrong for everyone to do it. Who elevated you to that calling?

I never quenched the Spirit. But put a big damper on adrenaline rushes people mistake for the move of the Spirit. It's all about love, not hoopla.

 

[Dave L]

Perhaps the problem is in some of those denominations or individuals who do not speak in tongues... as you say spontaneously.
You speaking of 'coaching', but does not the place you attend coach you not to surrender to the Spirit to stand and testify just because you feel the words burning down inside of you? Wait to testify rather until the 'man in charge' says "it is now time for a testimony service". Or, "You are not allowed to talk in tongues here".

"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." I Cor 14:39

Even if you are right about some who pretend, are you right to go against what Apostle Paul wrote?

That's the problem, the real gifts happened spontaneously and were never coerced.

 

[Dave L]

And what my friend is a cult? You speak of trusting in the scriptures, but how do you define a cult? Did you get your definition from the scriptures?

Only God is invincible? Anyone who is not always on His side will stumble. The problem with people, believers, is that instead of always being in the Spirit, they occasionally or even routinely quench the Holy Spirit of God in them. Most churches teach people to quench the Spirit. This last is certainly a problem especially for newly converted people.

Any departure from the truth brings one closer to the cult mindset.

 

[Dave L]

I do? Are you able to cite a scripture that says that? What happens if I am simply following as the Holy Ghost teaches me?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26


I am?

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" Rev 22:18

What if the Holy Ghost in me is adding according to other things Jesus may have done or said?

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25

The Holy Spirit teaches me too. But he uses scripture to do it, not my imagination.

 

[Dave L]

Why call us "cult members" when you don't know us either.

I am not calling anyone a cult member. But you divide the body of Christ with your "special" insights.

 

[Dave L]

In My Opinion, You Deny the Very Words that Our Savior Spoke in Mark 16:16-18!!!! All those that believe, IN MY NAME! not just Apostles.

This all happened in the first century. We still cast out demons and heal the sick through the prayer of faith. But we do not restore amputated limbs and body parts as Jesus did, or raise the dead as the Apostles did. Or straighten twisted limbs etc.

 

[Dave L]

You have some knowlege but not all understanding regarding this gift. Refer to Jude.

Tongues are a multi faceted tool. Primarily for building up of the user. See Jude. I Corin 14:4, Isaiah 28:12

For speaking to God NOT men 1corinthians 14:2

Also Isaiah 28:11-12

Also for interpretation in an assembly
1 Corinthians 12:10

Also for intercessory prayer see Job 32:18-20. I walk in this and have for decades

Not to be forbidden 1 Corinthians 14:39

Paul spoke in tongues more than the others OUTSIDE of church. 1corinthians 14:18,19

Prayer in the spirit, praying in the Holy Ghost, prayer in tongues, speaking in tongues are all synonymous.
Tongues may be unknown to us but not to God. Tongues of men and of angels. We may recognize some language - tongue- of men but not those of angels

Rejection foretold

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

But Paul said "understanding what is said" is the basis for edification. This means the first century tongue speakers who he said edify themselves knew what they were saying. Today's "tongue speakers" do not.

 

[amadeus]

HAY! I have handled many many rattle snake's, right after I cut off there head's, LOL!
and I do understand, Paul was bitten and the snake held on so when Paul pulled back his hand the snake was taken up with His hand, Paul wasn't playing with it! IMO

Indeed, there is only supposed to be one Head of the Body of Christ and that is Jesus. Too many of these places called churches have other heads and what place is left for Jesus? Should we not voluntarily go the way of John the Baptist? That is to cut off our own carnal heads in favor of Jesus?

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

 

[Triumph1300]

But you divide the body of Christ with your "special" insights.

No need for that.
I read my bible.

No "special insights"..... this is just another one of your "flash in the pan" quotes...

 

[amadeus]

This all happened in the first century. We still cast out demons and heal the sick through the prayer of faith. But we do not restore amputated limbs and body parts as Jesus did, or raise the dead as the Apostles did. Or straighten twisted limbs etc.

And if we don't, why is that? Did God stop being God? Has God ever changed?

 

[Triumph1300]

We still cast out demons and heal the sick through the prayer of faith.

Aha! You changed in one heck of a hurry?
A miracle happened!

 

[Frank Lee]

Dave:

When did God tell you that gifts, were not for now? You claim to be a believer then surely you hear from God? What exactly did he show you to let you know that these things were false?

Even Santa Claus were he real, would be offended if his gifts were rejected. You cannot believe the Holy Spirit and yet reject his gifts.

If he does not offer these gifts then you must have scriptural evidence.

The simplicity of Jesus' promised Holy Spirit has been perverted and denied by anti - Pentecosts for 2000 years.

Their perversion of the Scriptures are no different than Mormons or any other Bible denying sect. They reshape the word of god to suit their man created denominational doctrines. They lecture in matters they are completely ignorant of. Professing themselves to wise they only reveal their ignorance and appear as babes in the sight of all who have simply taken God at His word.

Brainwashing is no different for either Muslims or denominational members. Deceit is deceit. They argue and fight with believers who simply believe when their fight is with God.

Dave's fight is with God. Let Dave say that God told him that all these things he stands against are no longer for today.

 

[amadeus]

But Paul said "understanding what is said" is the basis for edification. This means the first century tongue speakers who he said edify themselves knew what they were saying. Today's "tongue speakers" do not.

They don't? Are you an expert in that as well? What do you know about edification in me or in any of these other members of this forum or in all the tongues talkers in other places? Did God give you a message?

I readily admit that some people play games with God, as did Ananias and Saphira [Acts 5:1ff], but who are you to say that all of us are frauds in the eyes of God? Where did you get your "eyes to see"? You are saying a lot of things, but in spite of saying that you do you rarely support your beliefs with scriptures.

 

[Dave L]

Aha! You changed in one heck of a hurry?
A miracle happened!

I've always believed this as a Christian and have seen some very harrowing instances first hand.

 

[Frank Lee]

But Paul said "understanding what is said" is the basis for edification. This means the first century tongue speakers who he said edify themselves knew what they were saying. Today's "tongue speakers" do not.

Dave I really just feel sorry for you. You've never had the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit or you could not deny Him or His gifts. By the arguments you present you reveal the coaching you have had from your denominational teachers. I've heard all this misinterpretation and lack of understanding many times. Trying to understand spiritual matters with secular minds is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[Dave L]

They don't? Are you an expert in that as well? What do you know about edification in me or in any of these other members of this forum or in all the tongues talkers in other places? Did God give you a message?

I readily admit that some people play games with God, as did Ananias and Saphira [Acts 5:1ff], but who are you to say that all of us are frauds in the eyes of God? Where did you get your "eyes to see"? You are saying a lot of things, but in spite of saying that you do you rarely support your beliefs with scriptures.

Do you understand what you are saying when speaking in tongues?

 

[Dave L]

Dave I really just feel sorry for you. You've never the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit or you could not deny His gifts. By the arguments you present you reveal the coaching you have had from your denominational teachers. Really I have nothing more to say to you.

I've had the baptism of the Holy Spirit from day one as a Christian. Apart from any church.