Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

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Rearding the baptism of the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts and some other things I believe;

  • 1. Yes, I know this is for today and all gifts including tongues, are yet given to believers.

  • 2. There is no secondary experience from God once you truly become a Christian.

  • 3. Those who speak in tongues are completely deceived, this is not from God at all.

  • 4. Spiritual gifts, including tongues passed away after the time of the apostles ended

  • 5. Those lacking baptism in the Holy Spirit lack God's anointing and power

  • 6. My denominations teaching on this is true. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not for now.

  • 7. Jesus no longer speaks directly to believers, only through the scripture

  • 8. Miracles of healing are not for today, modern medicine and doctors are our means of healing

  • 9. Much of the bible is allegorical and never really happened.

  • 10. I am a Christian but Jesus Christ is not God Almighty


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Frank Lee

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This is a poll...

What are your true beliefs regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts? Regarding some other aspects of being a Christian?
 
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Helen

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Heb 13 :8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

He does not change and neither do His promises and gifts.
Every alive ever powerful according to His word.
The gift are part and parcel of the kingdom.

"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
"And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."
 

Enoch111

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This is a poll...

What are your true beliefs regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts? Regarding some other aspects of being a Christian?
You could add one more category: The sign gifts passed away with the apostles, but the majority of spiritual gifts remain.

As to the baptism "of" the Holy Spirit, Christians should be clear on what the Bible teaches, since there is much confusion. What we find in the Bible is:

1. The baptism WITH the Spirit (the gift of the Holy Spirit): I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he [Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (Mt.3:11).

2. The baptism BY the Spirit (Christians placed in the Body of Christ): For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12,13)

Pentecostals and Charismatics have added a third category, which is "the baptism IN the Holy Spirit" (or the baptism OF the Holy Spirit), which says that those who are thus baptized will speak in tongues. However, Scripture makes it very clear that not all Christians will speak in tongues.
 
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Miss Hepburn

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What does it mean are 'yet ' given...not the way I talk.
Could the word be left out to clear up the meaning?
 

Miss Hepburn

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Heb 13 :8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
He does not change and neither do His promises and gifts.
Every alive ever powerful according to His word.
The gift are part and parcel of the kingdom.

"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
"And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."
Oh...well...there's nothing to say after that! :)

Oh well, I did think of something...I would never have believed this
Baptizing of the Holy Spirit...if i had not exp'd it for myself. Just sayin"
And THE GIFTS, oh my.
What a bl-e-s-s-ing.
 

Mayflower

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Wasn't sure what you meant by "secondary experience." I have had many amazing experiences since becoming a Christian. God is amazing.
 
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Frank Lee

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Wasn't sure what you meant by "secondary experience." I have had many amazing experiences since becoming a Christian. God is amazing.

1. First experience is salvation
2. Second experience = baptism in the Holy Spirit. (water baptism can take place only after salvation but may be either before or after being baptized in the Holy Spirit. The new testament gives examples of both experiences. Believers in Acts chapter 19 are water baptized before receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and Cornelius and his group are water baptized after receiving the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both groups received the gift of tongues as evidence of the in filling of the Holy Spirit.

Many denominations use the word secondary in a negative way, that after salvation nothing else is to be experienced.
 
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Taken

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This is a poll...

What are your true beliefs regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts? Regarding some other aspects of being a Christian?

Question~
Lord HOW is it it thou shall manifest thyself TO US ... And NOT the World?

The Baptism~

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him,
IF...
a man love me,
he WILL keep my words,
AND...
My Father WILL love him,
AND...
WE WILL come unto him
AND...
make OUR ABODE With him.

A man could be thrilled at the prospect of Jesus coming to his house for supper. Oh what an amazing prospect that would be, eh?

What an amazing story one would have to tell, eh?
"Jesus was at my house last month!!!"

Awe, but then Jesus went on His Way and I moved to another house....

But to put what Jesus said into perspective...
He would come to My house?
No, my body.
I would Feed Him?
No, He has Fed me.
He would leave and be on His Way?
No, He would live With me.

For How Long would He live With me?

Matt: 28:20
LO...I am with you alway, even to the end of the world.

To me...when the Lord God makes His ABODE with a man Forever...
THAT ... Is the Lords Baptism.

And yes I say Forever, because this world IS:
Eph 3:21
...a world without end.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit to me IS:
Thee Faithful and True Lord God Almighty came unto my ABODE and Shall NEVER Leave.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Episkopos

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1. First experience is salvation
2. Second experience = baptism in the Holy Spirit. (water baptism can take place only after salvation but may be either before or after being baptized in the Holy Spirit. The new testament gives examples of both experiences. Believers in Acts chapter 19 are water baptized before receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and Cornelius and his group are water baptized after receiving the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both groups received the gift of tongues as evidence of the in filling of the Holy Spirit.

Many denominations use the word secondary in a negative way, that after salvation nothing else is to be experienced.


Of course there are different order to things and different gifts of the Spirit. For some the baptism in the Holy Spirit is the primary or first experience. And we can't use tongues as the only evidence of the baptism of the Spirit. Prophecy is better.
 

Frank Lee

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Of course there are different order to things and different gifts of the Spirit. For some the baptism in the Holy Spirit is the primary or first experience. And we can't use tongues as the only evidence of the baptism of the Spirit. Prophecy is better.

The disciples were first believers then afterwards received the gift of the Holy Spirit. You can't put new wine into old bottles. There is no recorded instance of the Holy Spirit filling an unsaved person. God can move or use even the heathen but yet does not come to permanently dwell in them.

Luke 5:37-38 KJVS
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. [38] But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

There is no instance in the new testament that accounts for baptism in the Holy Spirit without the accompanying gift of tongues.
The day of Pentecost of course, Acts chapters 10 and 19.

Other spiritual gifts are given such as prophecy but tongues is the chief one. I received the gift of tongues but later was given the gift of prophesying.

I write more prophecy than I speak having less contact with believers than I used to. It is a strange and wonderful gift but by it its easily seen how the prophets of old received the scriptures. It's almost like taking dictation only the words are coming from the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of from your ears or mind.

False prophets such as Joseph Smith and MO-hammad were not Christian believers so were easily deceived by evil spirits.

The best gift is the one needed at the time.
 
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APAK

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This is a poll...

What are your true beliefs regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts? Regarding some other aspects of being a Christian?

To be 'Frank,' here are my true beliefs on this subject as you requested.

The notion that speaking in another language (tongue) for the benefit of another or others is prevalent today is false, as far as scripture. All present at Pentecost were heard speaking in other foreign languages for the benefit of performing God’s work.

If one were to gain a gift of God for speaking in another foreign coherent tongue, it had definitely nothing to do with the initial gaining of salvation for the first time. This gift would come afterwards.

Salvation is ONE spiritual experience only; whether dramatically felt or in a mellow intensity, or completely undetected, as the spirit of God takes up residence within that new believer. This is the baptism of the spirit of God. It is the seal of God and makes a person a true believer.

Now if one speaks ‘babble’ because it is determined that it is not a language at all that edifies someone, I would say it is not by the work of God at all. It is from one’s own works and desires. Some then will say that it is just a language communicated in the spirit and only to God and no one else. I’m not so convinced even that this is truth.

Finally, if one says I’m not a true believer because I do not speak in another language (tongue) for the work of God, then I would like them to reveal this truth in the word of God.

The spirit within me says this idea of speaking in tongues for validation of salvation is false, and a dangerous one. I believe I have ‘used’ at least two gifts of God at times, of discernment and understanding, although never those of tongues.

Bless you,


APAK
 

Miss Hepburn

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Why would anyone check that Jesus doesn't talk to us ...But,only in the Bible?

My thought: -It could only be they personally have never been spoken to...
-They believe they will never get spoken to directly, so never will...so they think others couldn't possibly be spoken to...the ones that are open to Jesus being here and now available to us...
-And what they believe is what 'is', written in stone, in other words.
-Also, they could think that people that do hear from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit are nuts or lying?

I dunno, I was just surprised as if Jesus is unavailable to us now...what?
Who even teaches that ...what church or preacher?
 
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Miss Hepburn

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The spirit within me says this idea of speaking in tongues for validation of salvation is false, and a dangerous one.
Wait a minute...there are people that think you are not saved unless you speak in tongues? What in earth?
 

Frank Lee

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To be 'Frank,' here are my true beliefs on this subject as you requested.

The notion that speaking in another language (tongue) for the benefit of another or others is prevalent today is false, as far as scripture. All present at Pentecost were heard speaking in other foreign languages for the benefit of performing God’s work.

If one were to gain a gift of God for speaking in another foreign coherent tongue, it had definitely nothing to do with the initial gaining of salvation for the first time. This gift would come afterwards.

Salvation is ONE spiritual experience only; whether dramatically felt or in a mellow intensity, or completely undetected, as the spirit of God takes up residence within that new believer. This is the baptism of the spirit of God. It is the seal of God and makes a person a true believer.

Now if one speaks ‘babble’ because it is determined that it is not a language at all that edifies someone, I would say it is not by the work of God at all. It is from one’s own works and desires. Some then will say that it is just a language communicated in the spirit and only to God and no one else. I’m not so convinced even that this is truth.

Finally, if one says I’m not a true believer because I do not speak in another language (tongue) for the work of God, then I would like them to reveal this truth in the word of God.

The spirit within me says this idea of speaking in tongues for validation of salvation is false, and a dangerous one. I believe I have ‘used’ at least two gifts of God at times, of discernment and understanding, although never those of tongues.

Bless you,


APAK

The beliefs you stated for yourself to me have the ring of denominational indoctrination. As the Holy Spirit made plain to me, men cling to, worship as it were, the teachings, traditions of their denomination rather than to God's word. Realize that when you refer to God's gift as BABBLE you slight God's gift. Tongues of men and of angels God's word states.

The primary purpose of speaking in tongues is for the building up of the believer as is reiterated by brother Jude, vs 20. I have practiced this for more than 40 years.

You can be saved and not speak in tongues but I blame the denominations that teach against the gifts for instilling actual fear in those that would otherwise readily accept the clearly stated word of God.

The gift of tongues is as all gifts of the Holy Spirit highly adaptable. The gift of tongues can be used to;

1. Deliver messages in a congregation of believers which will then be interpreted by another.

2. Giving thanks and praise unto God.... Giveth thanks well...

3. As on the original Pentecost being used to speak to those whose language you do not know. In the book "Before we kill and eat you" (H. B. Garlic. This book is available from several sources and can I believe be downloaded for free as a pdf) my brother worked with the daughter of this African missionary couple, Garlock and his wife. In the book Garlic was captured by viscious cannibals and death was immanent. Garlic according to his own account, began to speak to the Tribe in another language, apparently theirs. They fell silent and when he ceased speaking they fell down and made obeisance to him. Garlic and his group was released and helped on their way. Tjis took place in the 1920s or 30's.

4. The wonderful gift of tongues is the only way you can pray without ceasing. Your spirit prays and your understanding is bypassed.

5. Intercessory prayer in the spirit, tongues that is, is a call to prayer by the Holy Spirit and is referenced in the book of Job.

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, (matter = speaking, words, talking) the spirit within me constraineth ( moves, compels, urges strongly) me.
[19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles. [20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Having experienced this from time to time I discerned the meaning of these scriptures immediately as I read them decades ago.

An internal pressing of the Spirit within and an uncomfortable urge to begin to pray in the spirit, tongues, prayer in the Holy Ghost, arises and only by prayer at length will the pressure diminish. Sometimes this call to intercession is only for ten or fifteen minutes but other times may last for an hour or more. Relief (refer to vs 20) comes as the call to intercessory prayer from the Holy Spirit is answered. The internal pressure is relieved and you know that you have accomplished in prayer what God wanted from you.

This has to be experienced to be understood and I appreciate the Lord placing these explanatory scriptures in Job.

As I've written elsewhere on this site God gave me the interpretation of the tongues I was speaking in to tell me my wife was with child. After 14 childless years God had promised to send us a son. On October 9th,1979 He told me by tongues and interpretation that He had done what he had promised. I have the interpretation written on a plaque that hangs in our living room. Our son is now 38, born 9 months after the word.

Whether a believer speaks in tongues or not is pretty much up to them. It's a gift available to whosoever will. As is usual with men they complicate the simple things of God and make them impossibly hard. This is the work of the natural mind.

The blame for the fear of this gift must lie at the feet of those individuals and denominations that vehemently teach against the gift of God. They don't enter in themselves and hinder all who would.

This hindrance, this denial originates with Satan who wants to dissuade every believer from receiving the power, the dunamis, that comes with the in filling of the, Holy Spirit and thence receiving the multi-faceted gift of tongues.

I have nothing to sell. I push no denomination but only relate the things I've seen and heard from the Lord God as they agree with the written words of God.

For those that fear the gifts of God I pray you cleave to God and cast aside the denominational traditions and doctrines that have implanted unbelief and distrust of the plainly stated scriptures on these subjects.
 
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Helen

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Why would anyone check that Jesus doesn't talk to us ...But,only in the Bible?

My thought: -It could only be they personally have never been spoken to...
-They believe they will never get spoken to directly, so never will...so they think others couldn't possibly be spoken to...the ones that are open to Jesus being here and now available to us...
-And what they believe is what 'is', written in stone, in other words.
-Also, they could think that people that do hear from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit are nuts or lying?

I dunno, I was just surprised as if Jesus is unavailable to us now...what?
Who even teaches that ...what church or preacher?

Excellent!!
Thumb.gif
 

Helen

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The primary purpose of speaking in tongues is for the building up of the believer as is reiterated by brother Jude, vs 20. I have practiced this for more than 40 years.

You can be saved and not speak in tongues but I blame the denominations that teach against the gifts for instilling actual fear in those that would otherwise readily accept the clearly stated word of God.

The gift of tongues is as all gifts of the Holy Spirit highly adaptable. The gift of tongues can be used to;

1. Deliver messages in a congregation of believers which will then be interpreted by another.

2. Giving thanks and praise unto God.... Giveth thanks well...

3. As on the original Pentecost being used to speak to those whose language you do not know. In the book "Before we kill and eat you" (H. B. Garlic. This book is available from several sources and can I believe be downloaded for free as a pdf) my brother worked with the daughter of this African missionary couple, Garlock and his wife. In the book Garlic was captured by viscious cannibals and death was immanent. Garlic according to his own account, began to speak to the Tribe in another language, apparently theirs. They fell silent and when he ceased speaking they fell down and made obeisance to him. Garlic and his group was released and helped on their way. Tjis took place in the 1920s or 30's.

4. The wonderful gift of tongues is the only way you can pray without ceasing. Your spirit prays and your understanding is bypassed.

5. Intercessory prayer in the spirit, tongues that is, is a call to prayer by the Holy Spirit and is referenced in the book of Job.

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, (matter = speaking, words, talking) the spirit within me constraineth ( moves, compels, urges strongly) me.
[19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles. [20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Having experienced this from time to time I discerned the meaning of these scriptures immediately as I read them decades ago.

An internal pressing of the Spirit within and an uncomfortable urge to begin to pray in the spirit, tongues, prayer in the Holy Ghost, arises and only by prayer at length will the pressure diminish. Sometimes this call to intercession is only for ten or fifteen minutes but other times may last for an hour or more. Relief (refer to vs 20) comes as the call to intercessory prayer from the Holy Spirit is answered. The internal pressure is relieved and you know that you have accomplished in prayer what God wanted from you.

This has to be experienced to be understood and I appreciate the Lord placing these explanatory scriptures in Job.

As I've written elsewhere on this site God gave me the interpretation of the tongues I was speaking in to tell me my wife was with child. After 14 childless years God had promised to send us a son. On October 9th,1979 He told me by tongues and interpretation that He had done what he had promised. I have the interpretation written on a plaque that hangs in our living room. Our son is now 38, born 9 months after the word.

Whether a believer speaks in tongues or not is pretty much up to them. It's a gift available to whosoever will. As is usual with men they complicate the simple things of God and make them impossibly hard. This is the work of the natural mind.

The blame for the fear of this gift must lie at the feet of those individuals and denominations that vehemently teach against the gift of God. They don't enter in themselves and hinder all who would.

This hindrance, this denial originates with Satan who wants to dissuade every believer from receiving the power, the dunamis, that comes with the in filling of the, Holy Spirit and thence receiving the multi-faceted gift of tongues.

I have nothing to sell. I push no denomination but only relate the things I've seen and heard from the Lord God as they agree with the written words of God.

For those that fear the gifts of God I pray you cleave to God and cast aside the denominational traditions and doctrines that have implanted unbelief and distrust of the plainly stated scriptures on these subjects.

And another excellent post.

...Thumb.gif
 

Frank Lee

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If you are saved long enough and talk to enough believers you will hear all sorts, of unbelief. The world and even many denominational believers think it strange if you profess to have heard from God. This reflects on the little time spent with Him.

The world says you are insane if you hear voices not recognizing that Satan deceives them daily with thoughts they believe to be their own.
 

Helen

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If you are saved long enough and talk to enough believers you will hear all sorts, if unbelief. The world and even many denominational believers think it strange if you profess to have heard from God. Thus reflects on the little time spent with Him.

Yes, it is sad that those who 'hear from God' are considered strange. Yet back in the OT it was an expected thing...even by the none God fearing...like when the King said " Find me Elijah, he hears from God....."

I am sure in the not too far future any of us who claim to speak to, and hear from God will be quickly locked up as crazy!!
No one will want us around.
Even less if we dare say that we 'see' things in another realm!!