Very interesting about the commas and other punctuation. Just one of those placed in error can change the whole meaning of many things!
Is Remarriage after Divorce, Adultery?
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Yes indeed "endless scenarios"I respect both DaveL and Episkopos a great deal, and we usually agree. They are both honoring "the letter" as I do, but God is Spirit, and must be worshiped in Spirit and in truth. There are questions the Bible does not address, but on many we already know the answer because we know God's laws.
Say, for instance, homosexual marriage and heterosexual fornication. Is a homosexual marriage "under God" just because the land sees them as married, and does God also see them as married and bound to one another? What about losing your virginity to fornication, whether male or female as a teenager? Does God see you then as married, and if later you actually legally marry someone else even for the first time, does God see that marriage as adultery? It seems so in the Old Testament, as only virgin girls were eligible for marriage. The scenarios are endless, which is why we let God do the judging. It is also why I choose to err on the side of His holiness and stay away from men altogether. For all I know, I could be married to Bob from New York, my "first," and not my first husband, Dave who was an entertainer and had a different girl at each gig, let alone my second husband, Steve who left me for the wife of his best friend.:
My ex husband didn't leave me - I asked him to go when I found out about another affair, I was prompted one morning to ' ask him about his secrets ' it took the Holy Spirit three attempts before I complied. Two days prior to this the words ' let him go ' were laid deeply on my heart but I had no idea what the words meant. I had no idea that my husband was having another affair, when I asked the question he opened up. I knew that day that I could not just accept and forgive him again.
Rita
Helen
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Well that took you a long time to say all that.
It takes a lot of imagination...and lots of "IF's"
Two committed Christian waiting for each other to hopefully commit adultery so the other one could be free...Phtt! It would never happen. Too much of a leap for me to see that.
We probably cannot discuss this anyway...because on this one our starting block is poles apart.
You are a " save or unsaved " believer . I am not.
I am a believe in OSAS for all.
And that our walk here on earth is God taking our measure as to our fruit production and faithfulness as a good servant.
I've read your posts , on that subject we are not on the same page.
Bless you..Helen :)
I find it that Christians hear God's voice on the subject. Personally, God said, "I release you" a week before I found out about the affair. And this was my second marriage! So by that I may assume I was bound to him even though my first husband was still alive. And in the first's husband's second marriage, his wife was barren, but after prayer, they conceived and had two children. There is a lot we don't know about God and His own loop-holes. I just go by what I DO believe, and God seems to honor it by being my Husband.
Helen
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Say, for instance, homosexual marriage and heterosexual fornication. Is a homosexual marriage "under God" just because the land sees them as married, and does God also see them as married and bound to one another? What about losing your virginity to fornication, whether male or female as a teenager? Does God see you then as married, and if later you actually legally marry someone else even for the first time, does God see that marriage as adultery? It seems so in the Old Testament, as only virgin girls were eligible for marriage. The scenarios are endless, which is why we let God do the judging. It is also why I choose to err on the side of His holiness and stay away from men altogether. For all I know, I could be married to Bob from New York, my "first," and not my first husband, Dave who was an entertainer and had a different girl at each gig, let alone my second husband, Steve who left me for the wife of his best friend.
Haha!! Reading your post made me dizzy. :)
I am not a 'letter of the law ' person as you may know by now...
What does the heart of the spirit of the law say!
The things that happened to us before Christ are just that...BC
All things become new.
As for our marriages...I guess because we are told to obey those who have the rule over us ...marriage with a certificate is needful ... Yet I have a nephew who has lived with his partner for 35 years now....they have two kids. They are no less or more married than his brother , who got that piece of paper.
Bottom line...I believe each person must get before the Lord and hear what HE has to say about it at the time.
I can't tell someone else what they can and cannot do...as some seem to do...while being so very sure that how they understand it, is unmovable.
We see in part, we understand in part...we speak in part...
Helen
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Amen Rita.
And then you had all the dealing about attitude and brokenness to work through.
At least now in family functions you can both be in the same room.
You heard from God, and God lead you through.
Bless you. x
Well that took you a long time to say all that.
It takes a lot of imagination...and lots of "IF's"
Two committed Christian waiting for each other to hopefully commit adultery so the other one could be free...Phtt! It would never happen. Too much of a leap for me to see that.
We probably cannot discuss this anyway...because on this one our starting block is poles apart.
You are a " save or unsaved " believer . I am not.
I am a believe in OSAS for all.
And that our walk here on earth is God taking our measure as to our fruit production and faithfulness as a good servant.
I've read your posts , on that subject we are not on the same page.
Bless you..Helen :)
I actually am not a status salvation person. I believe we are all judged on a curve. Everyone must be faithful to what they have been given. Like a handicap in golf. That's why I'm against judging those outside the church. I believe Paul did the same.
What does OSAS for all entail?
As for this topic...I believe that a man and a wife have different roles in the marriage. A man is responsible for his wife....and responsible for her subsequent infidelity if he puts her away for any other cause than infidelity.
A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives.
It is the same in the Spirit. If we are dead with Christ....we are then free to be alive in Christ. So the law of faith follows the law of marriage. Very few understand this in our time. Most think of salvation as a status or religious position. I know it as a new kind of life that, once freed from the power of the flesh, we can then walk as Jesus walked in the dimension that Jesus walked in....in Zion.
Grace to you...
In the eyes of the Bible, and the laws of the land, your brother and his partner fornicated and had two children. But in the eyes of God they may be married, I don't know. He certainly doesn't consider homosexual marriage binding, no matter what the laws of the land say. God looks at sex only between a man and a woman as marriage. If that is the case, then "Bob", my first fornication is my husband - but is he??? God hasn't brought me a third lawful husband, and I've left that up to Him, so He may be saving me from further adultery/fornication, as He knows I want NOTHING in my life that would distance me from Him.
You asked, "What does the heart of the spirit of the law say!" Well, the letter says we are married once. The spirit of the law says a person becomes free for the innocent if there is adultery. After all, Jesus would know what the spirit of the law is.
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Marriage/wedding is a civil ceremony. Jesus turned water into wine at a marriage.
“Now on the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there,” (John 2:1)
“And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:” (John 2:1)
The woman at the well had 5 husbands, the one she was presently with was not her husband.
“for you have had five husbands, and the man you are living with now is not your husband. This you said truthfully!”” (John 4:18)
So an unmarried physical sexual relationship is fornication, not a marriage. After marriage it is adultery.
Isaac took Rebekah into his mother's tent and had sex. No ceremony mentioned. Is there something special about his mother's tent?
I started dating my wife in Sept and we were married 9 months later (we were friends for several years before dating). We saw no need to wait years since we knew the Lord brought us together. Of course, each situation is different for different people.
I think it is obvious they were married. Any public commitment between the two constituted a marriage and there certainly was plenty of this. We think of marriage as a state law, but even Paul considered pagan gentile weddings as valid.
I'm just pointing out your use of having a "civil ceremony." What do you think about today, people who are in a committed relationship and have children, who never had any ceremony, but the world sees them as married? Are they married in God's eyes?
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As far as I know, it was always a commitment and public announcement of marriage. I knew a guy who got married in a woods to a ballerina by a "minister" who got his licence from a Popular Mechanics magazine add. It was legal and he was married but it didn't last. So I suppose I would answer your question with a yes = common law marriage recognized by the State.
Given the divorce rates in the West and that "common law" really means NO commitment, that is not really marriage (it used to mean simply "shacking up"). All cultures have public weddings, whether you wish to call them civil ceremonies or anything else.
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