Paul And The Law

[H. Richard]

THE GREATEST GIFT EVER GIVEN

WAS GIVEN BY THE SON OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE PAID THE PRICE FOR THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND.

Heb 9:22 NKJV
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Eph 1:7 NKJV
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Heb 9:12 NKJV
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Jesus did this for me.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Bible Search: overcome overcomes overcoming


Revelation 2:26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to ...

... And he that shall overcome, and keep my works unto the...

and you're boned, see, just like that. bye now

overcoming is through belief, not works 1 Jhn 5:4-5.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Thats religion talk putting God into a box, God shall save whom He will save and God forbid any man who opposes Him in that matter.

Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

 

[Helen]

Only overcomers are saved.

Not true at all. Where on earth do you get such things!!
It shows us clearly in the Book of Revelation , that it is the overcomers who get special rewards..and rule and reign with Him. Rev 3.
How do the overcomers rule over, if everyone else but them, are unsaved and lost?

That doesn't even make a lick of sense.

 

[brakelite]

What Jesus did was open the Door/Gate into the Garden that had been shut since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We now have access to the Tree of Life, but only overcomers will eat from that Tree. Jesus' finished work was paying the price of cleaning us. Adam and Eve were clean until they sinned. All of their offspring were unclean. Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus cleaned us, but then our own work was to begin. It now possible in accord with God's plan, but we still had to do it. As part of His plan God sent Jesus to clean us up so that we could even walk through the Gate/Door. Then God provided the gift of the Holy Spirit to make it possible for each of us to do what we could not do alone. This is why we need the proper attire:

"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:11-14

And the wedding garment is:

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Eph 6:13

Reading on in Ephesians 6 all for armour is identified for us. Without it, we cannot make through our course to the end of the road where the Tree of Life awaits.

As needed, Jesus will take hold of our hand or even carry us through difficult parts of the walk, but the choice to continue is always ours. We need to eat of the right Tree, but unprepared people cannot ever overcome all of the obstacles between us and that Tree.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

The bride, ever since her Groom's proposal, has had much difficulty in deciding whether or not to wear that wedding garment. Though it comes as a gift, it seems she simply does not want to shed her old garments and put on the new. Those old garments of sin and corruption, carrying the filth of decades of rebellion, are just too much of a good fit for many that they cannot let them go.
Christ's robe of righteousness for far too many is a standard too high...they don't want it, and they don't have the faith to believe it is possible that God could dress them in it. So it is rejected as unnecessary. A burden for others, but not them. They are special...they will get to go to the wedding feast as guests dressed just as they are. But they do not realise that unless they accept and wear the right wedding garment, they will not get inside the door.

 

[brakelite]

overcoming is through belief, not works 1 Jhn 5:4-5.

The works are the evidence of faith. No works, no faith.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The works are the evidence of faith. No works, no faith.

Right, and does lack of faith produce lack of Godly righteousness or loss of salvation..

 

[Dave L]

Not true at all. Where on earth do you get such things!!
It shows us clearly in the Book of Revelation , that it is the overcomers who get special rewards..and rule and reign with Him. Rev 3.
How do the overcomers rule over, if everyone else but them, are unsaved and lost?

That doesn't even make a lick of sense.

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)

“For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 John 5:4) (NASB95)

“‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’” (Revelation 2:7) (NASB95)

“‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’” (Revelation 2:11) (NASB95)


etc., etc.

 

[brakelite]

Right, and does lack of faith produce lack of Godly righteousness or loss of salvation..

I would wonder if anyone who doesn't have the faith to believe that God can make someone righteous, Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. and walk in a Godly manner in keeping with His commandments, does that person have the faith to gain him entrance into the kingdom...real faith or presumption?

 

[bbyrd009]

overcoming is through belief, not works 1 Jhn 5:4-5.

well i don't believe you Heb, and not only that your repeated ignorance and deflection tell me that you are deliberately lying even to yourself, which we all tend to do sometimes. You might at least follow HRs lead here imo, but do what you like. Fwiw i tend to be the Last Guy sent to ppl like you, and i'm still trying to get my head around that myself, might be a coincidence; i certainly wish you no ill. You strike me as a well-intentioned guy with more good ideas than bad, which is more than i could say about me i guess. But for your own sake i would confront these bad an Unsupportable ideas that you are teaching, Heb, i guess that's the part that matters. Today Heb, ok? Bc i am getting an urgent call for you that i am not getting for HR alla sudden bro; i would think very carefully before making another willful vomit of Scripture. Frankly i'm kinda scared to even talk to you any more lest i be the reply that gets you, but since you no doubt feel compelled to get in the last word, have at it. Lack of faith cannot produce anything btw, but nice to see you at least pretending to ask questions, even lawyer questions i guess. happy hollies, and it was good knowing you Heb

 

[brakelite]

I would wonder if anyone who doesn't have the faith to believe that God can make someone righteous, Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. and walk in a Godly manner in keeping with His commandments, does that person have the faith to gain him entrance into the kingdom...real faith or presumption?

I mean, if God cannot change a man's heart to be in harmony with His laws, what kind of God is He? Does it make Satan more powerful? Or even us?

 

[GodsGrace]

Just because non-osas deny they're preaching works, doesn't change the fact that they are
ther working for salvation so they dont lose salvation 0go
d blessing happy sant

Works do not save anyone.
Faith saves...not works.
AFTER we're saved, we are required to do God's will.
Call it works..call it what you will.
But obey we must.

 

[GodsGrace]

Rom 10:9 states what we must do to be saved to have eternal life, believe and confess but realy mean it

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

6I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!

Well Heb, we might want to chat a bit about WHICH is the true gospel.
BTW, you're first verses prove that eternal security does not exist. We are saved ONLY IF we hold firmly to the word that was teached.

Question is: What was that word?

Here's an idea:

1. 
   Galatians 6:9-10
   
   Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
   
   
   
   
   Matthew 5:38-48
   
   "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
   
   
   
   
   Luke 6:27-36
   
   "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
   
   
   
   
   1 Peter 3:8-13
   
   To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.
   
   
   Psalm 34:12-16
   
   Who is the man who desires life And loves length of days that he may see good? Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit. Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.
   
   
   
   Hebrews 13:16
   
   And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
   
   
   
   
   1 Peter 2:20
   
   For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.
   
   
   
   1 Peter 3:17
   
   For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
   
   
   
   John 5:28-29
   
   "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
   
   
   
   Luke 6:35
   
   "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
   
   
   
   
   Romans 2:5-11
   
   But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
   
   
   
   
   1 Timothy 6:17-19
   
   Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.
   
   
   
   
   
   2 Timothy 2:20-21
   
   Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
   
   
   
   James 2:14-21
   
   What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
   
   
   
   
   James 3:13
   
   Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.
   
   
   
   
   
   2 Corinthians 9:8
   
   And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
   
   
   
   Acts 9:36
   
   Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated in Greek is called Dorcas); this woman was abounding with deeds of kindness and charity which she continually did.
   
   
   
   
   Philippians 2:12-13
   
   So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
   
   
   
   
   
   Colossians 1:10-12
   
   so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
   
   
   
   
   Ephesians 2:10
   
   For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
   
   
   
   
   2 Timothy 2:21
   
   Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
   
   
   
   2 Timothy 3:16-17
   
   All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
   
   
   
   
   1 Peter 2:13-15
   
   Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance
   

Sorry for the carpet bombing...
But does that sound to you like we're not to do good works?
Could you show me just TWO verses that say we need do nothing?
AFTER salvation...

 

[amadeus]

The bride, ever since her Groom's proposal, has had much difficulty in deciding whether or not to wear that wedding garment. Though it comes as a gift, it seems she simply does not want to shed her old garments and put on the new. Those old garments of sin and corruption, carrying the filth of decades of rebellion, are just too much of a good fit for many that they cannot let them go.
Christ's robe of righteousness for far too many is a standard too high...they don't want it, and they don't have the faith to believe it is possible that God could dress them in it. So it is rejected as unnecessary. A burden for others, but not them. They are special...they will get to go to the wedding feast as guests dressed just as they are. But they do not realise that unless they accept and wear the right wedding garment, they will not get inside the door.

Indeed, they were all cold when they first met the Lord, and then perhaps for a while they were hot. Now so many have slipped back to somewhere on the fence in between:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" Rev 3:15-17

God would that they were even "cold" rather than lukewarm for the cold ones who have not met Him still have an opportunity. They still have hope. Those who have met the Master but want to hold onto things they have loved in the world of men have backed away from Him... from their first Love. They have effectively put other things ahead of Him... other things first. He will spit them out if they do not go to the Advocate while He can be found.

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:" Rev 10:6

 

[GodsGrace]

out of thankfulness to the cross, not to t save ourself

Out of thankfulness?
OK. Maybe.
How about out of the fact that God demands obedience?
Too much for ya?

 

[Heb 13:8]

I would wonder if anyone who doesn't have the faith to believe that God can make someone righteous, Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. and walk in a Godly manner in keeping with His commandments, does that person have the faith to gain him entrance into the kingdom...real faith or presumption?

God producing the fruit of righteousness in a believer comes through sanctification in his daily walk. The believer is already in the kingdom because of his belief in the death, burial and resurrection Jhn 3:3. Now the believer has a relationship with God, which is the sanctification process.

You can't force your way into the kingdom by being "good". It's only through belief in His resurrection that all sin is forgiven. Many hear the good news, but ol men are stubborn, they do not receive.

Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

Rom 6:22-23 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 15:16-17 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

 

[Heb 13:8]

well i don't believe you Heb,

well thankfully, it's not about me

1 Jhn 5 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Works do not save anyone.
Faith saves...not works.
AFTER we're saved, we are required to do God's will.
Call it works..call it what you will.
But obey we must.

We are required to do God's will to grow and mature,, not to save ourselves

 

[Heb 13:8]

Well Heb, we might want to chat a bit about WHICH is the true gospel.
BTW, you're first verses prove that eternal security does not exist. We are saved ONLY IF we hold firmly to the word that was teached.

Sorry for the carpet bombing...
But does that sound to you like we're not to do good works?
Could you show me just TWO verses that say we need do nothing?
AFTER salvation...

That's ok, no believers do things for the kingdom out of thankfulness to the cross, not to save ourselves.
So many are trying to force their way into the kingdom throig religion and their own effort, not knowing Jesus is the only gate to salvation. You're never really to far gone to believe though,

 

[Heb 13:8]

Out of thankfulness?
OK. Maybe.
How about out of the fact that God demands obedience?
Too much for ya?

Right, and disobedience brings chastisement, not loss of salvation. So many try to force it but yea, God bles Luke 16:16