Divisions

[epostle]

Who are the right Catholics? Those that agree with you?

No, the ones who understand the heresy of Pelagianism. There are stupid Catholics that say our salvation is based solely on works because they don't understand, and stupid anti-Catholics who refuse to understand.

 

[epostle]

Idiotic claims? How graceful of you but the scripture does say that to be mad is for the glory of God.

Now, where does it say to be dogmatic is for the glory of God?

It's not a dogmatic statement. It's a theological phrase. "The glory of God is man fully alive" was written by Saint Irenaeus who lived in the second century. This quote is rightly celebrated as one of the most profound incites into theological anthropology – a five dollar term for the theology of human nature. God receives external glory when humans are truly alive, presumably alive in God.

I don’t think that we have to restrict the passage to human persons being fully alive in Heaven. God is truly glorified when we live the life of grace here on earth.

More accurate translation: For the glory of God is a living man.

Full context: From Adversus Haereses (Against Heresies), 4. 34. 5-7.
Irenaeus and the glory of God in humanity - from Adversus Haereses

 

[Marymog]

Not talking about being sinless. The smelly rotten fish I refer to is the mindset of intrinsic evil that is endemic and a part of Catholic ecclesiastical culture. And the pope is now telling the world that if anyone criticizes such practices they are of the devil. Such a character you would have us believe is appropriate to the church "against which the gates of hell have yet to prevail"? I suggest the gates of hell prevailed against that particular branch of Christianity a long, long time ago. And what we are witnessing today is the inevitable rotten fruit falling from the rotten tree.

Hi Braklite,

You said that The Church (CC) may have been the pillar and foundation of truth then, but now it is a completely different kettle of smelly rotten fish. What do you mean by THEN? What time frame are you speaking of? The first 300 years of Christianity?

Jesus was the pillar and foundation of The Truth. He was sinless....wasn't he? Since The Church is the "pillar and foundation of truth", like Scripture says, wouldn't it be sinless? Sooooo how can you say you are NOT talking about being sinless???? To be the pillar and foundation of TRUTH is to be sinless. The opposite of the TRUTH is a LIE and to lie is to sin.....

Yes, there are smelly rotten fish in The Church....they are even in your church. That doe not stop The Church from being the "pillar and foundation of truth" which is what Scripture calls the Church.

Since you gave no evidence that the Pope said that I will assume you are telling the truth. The Pope is right. Anyone that criticizes or speaks against the pillar and foundation of Truth is the devil.

I agree with you. Today we are witnessing rotten fruit falling FAR from your rotten Protestant rotten:

United Methodist and Episcopalian Church Clergy Lead Prayer Rally to “Bless” Abortion Clinic
United Methodist and Episcopalian Church Clergy Lead Prayer Rally to “Bless” Abortion Clinic | LifeNews.com

Presbyterian Church formally approves gay marriage in church constitution
Presbyterian Church formally approves gay marriage in church constitution

United Methodist Church Moves To Allow LGBT Clergy And Gay Marriage:
United Methodist Church Moves To Allow LGBT Clergy And Gay Marriage

It is sad how far you and your ilk have fallen from The Church.

Sad Mary

 

[Marymog]

That is impossible for the simple reason that ordinary water cannot be the Savior of anyone, nor wash away sins. It is only the blood of Christ that can wash away sins.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood (Rev 1:5)

As you can see, the Catholic church has perverted the teaching regarding baptism and baptismal regeneration (along with dozens of other perversions). So Mary, you need to make up your mind. You can either follow the doctrines of men, or cleave to the Word of God.

Hi Enoch,

Maybe you and @mjrhealth and @brakelite should get together and read scripture since they liked your incomplete quoting of Scripture on this matter? You obviously don't know scripture and to pretend that Scripture only says the blood of Jesus cleans us from sin shows your lack of knowledge about the word of God: 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16

You should read all of Scripture instead of the parts that fit what you believe.......Your training is complete.....

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

I have found out that grandchildren are such fun I wish I had them first.

Some do and some don't. It is not a universal belief.

Same as every Catholic I have talked to says that you have to earn your salvation and Catholicism does as well but there is a CATHOLIC here who says I am wrong and if that is the case, so are all the Catholics I have talked to and Catholicism itself is wrong.

Hmmmmm.....Catholicism is wrong but you are right? YOU are the pillar and foundation of truth?

I guess we should follow you and your teachings?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I have found out that grandchildren are such fun I wish I had them first.

Some do and some don't. It is not a universal belief.

Same as every Catholic I have talked to says that you have to earn your salvation and Catholicism does as well but there is a CATHOLIC here who says I am wrong and if that is the case, so are all the Catholics I have talked to and Catholicism itself is wrong.

Thank you. LOL....I like that...have grandchildren BEFORE children.

You should not take as dogma/doctrine what every individual Catholic says to you for they could be giving their version of what they believe the CC teaches. Read what the CC teaches instead of what your RCC friends say they think it teaches. If they are preaching OPPOSITE of what the CC teaches then they are Catholic in name only.

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Enoch,

Maybe you and @mjrhealth and @brakelite should get together and read scripture since they liked your incomplete quoting of Scripture on this matter? You obviously don't know scripture and to pretend that Scripture only says the blood of Jesus cleans us from sin shows your lack of knowledge about the word of God: 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16

You should read all of Scripture instead of the parts that fit what you believe.......Your training is complete.....

Bible study Mary

I would rather know Christ, scripture and religion will get no one into heaven, and if you new the truth you would not get so angry..

And the truth will set you free,, yes even you if you desire freedom...

 

[brakelite]

You said that The Church (CC) may have been the pillar and foundation of truth then, but now it is a completely different kettle of smelly rotten fish. What do you mean by THEN? What time frame are you speaking of? The first 300 years of Christianity?

No. The church in the time of the apostles, only. It was immediately after Paul was martyred that the church began to turn to custard, beginning in Rome and Alexandria, and has been on a downward slide since...the reformation was necessary to bring some semblance of sanity and truth back among God's people. That work has yet to be concluded.

Jesus was the pillar and foundation of The Truth. He was sinless....wasn't he? Since The Church is the "pillar and foundation of truth", like Scripture says, wouldn't it be sinless? Sooooo how can you say you are NOT talking about being sinless???? To be the pillar and foundation of TRUTH is to be sinless. The opposite of the TRUTH is a LIE and to lie is to sin

I am not doing the Catholic merry-go-round of logical fallacy driven nonsense that is so prevalent among you "and your ilk". After all, if I followed your logic, that because Jesus was worshiped as God, then Mary was therefore the mother of God...why not take it a step further, and claim because Jesus was the Son of God, then Mary must have been God.

Yes, there are smelly rotten fish in The Church....they are even in your church. That doe not stop The Church from being the "pillar and foundation of truth" which is what Scripture calls the Church.

The smelly rotten fish in my church aren't claiming infallibility and pretending the world must kneel at their feet and kiss their rings in order to be saved.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I was disappointed last night when I read that Crystal Cathedral closed down. Apparently it happened due to the aging Protestants and influx of Catholics from Mexico. Protestantism appears to be dying, and sure enough, I looked it up and it is. I'm afraid that we're shifting away from any divisions at all in the coming years because no one is practicing any religion. It looks like we need to evangelize.

The Demise of the Crystal Cathedral: Shattered Dreams Behind the Orange Curtain

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-r...to-be-scared-christianity-is-dying-in-america

Catholicism is losing the most members:

Pew survey: Percentage of US Catholics drops and Catholicism is losing members faster than any denomination

 

[Taken]

Hi Enoch,

The mishmash of wrongly interpreted Scripture became prevalent in the 1500's when men began leaving The Church by starting their own denominations based on their interpretation of Scripture which was opposite of 1500 years of Church teaching. The Church was One with One voice One teaching and One belief just like Jesus and the Apostles wanted.
Mary

The first place(S) of worship called A Church were not called A catholic church.

What defined an early place of worship as a Church, was that the Lord Jesus was being taught is the Christ Messiah.

The Jewish Apostle Peter was among a group of men chosen and appointed by Jesus to learn from Him, and then go out and teach and preach to Jews, The Gospel of Christ Jesus.

The catholic church from the Get-go, established itself claiming to be the FIRST Christian Church...and posthumously (without Peter"s knowledge) exalted Peter as theiir "holy father". And thereafter have "for centuries" elected a succession of "holy fathers".

Follow the history...
Men were attending "catholic churches" BEING TOLD what to believe.
The majority of the people were illiterate, copied Bibles were scarce, and few could afford a Bible, IF a copy was available.

In short - the people were left to rely on what they were told.

In fact - the 'catholic church council' had the opportunity to devise and teach all kinds of
Intricacies and portray them applicable to the new Covenant and Jesus' Doctrine, and the illiterate had no way to verify.

tt is well known, through the ages, illiteracy and afforadibility for the majority to have the ability to read and own a Bible has improved drastically.

It is also well know, the ability to read and own a Bible has not drastically improved that people actually read the Bible.

Looking back on history of a FEW, who could read, WHO had access to a Bible, WHO had been Taught by "hearing" Catholic clerics, began Verifying in the Bible, what they HAD been taught by "hearing", discrepancies, of what the Bible actually TAUGHT; and chose to challenge Catholic clerics; and eventually dissatisfied; broke away from the catholic church.

Not giving catholics all the credit for being lax in Reading and Verifying what they are told, however numerous polls indicate catholics rate high in tradition of believing what they are told, and rarely if ever read the Bible.

It is well known;
catholics teach to their congregates, to get their young children enrolled in being taught
A catholic prepared book of principles via a series prepared questions and prepared catholic acceptable answers.

Whereas a Protestant teaches to focus on Gods prepared Word and verify Gods Word with His word.

It is simply a matter of choice.
Do your own homework, or let someone else do it for you, and then tell you what to believe.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

No, the ones who understand the heresy of Pelagianism. There are stupid Catholics that say our salvation is based solely on works because they don't understand, and stupid anti-Catholics who refuse to understand.

Speaking of understanding, and the lack of understanding to be "stupidity".

I understand "a Catholic" to be a PERSON, who agrees with " the Catholic church's" "DOCTRINE".

Would you clarify, if my "understanding" is fact or stupid?

Gory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

The first place(S) of worship called A Church were not called A catholic church.

What defined an early place of worship as a Church, was that the Lord Jesus was being taught is the Christ Messiah.

The Jewish Apostle Peter was among a group of men chosen and appointed by Jesus to learn from Him, and then go out and teach and preach to Jews, The Gospel of Christ Jesus.

The catholic church from the Get-go, established itself claiming to be the FIRST Christian Church...and posthumously (without Peter"s knowledge) exalted Peter as theiir "holy father". And thereafter have "for centuries" elected a succession of "holy fathers".

Follow the history...
Men were attending "catholic churches" BEING TOLD what to believe.
The majority of the people were illiterate, copied Bibles were scarce, and few could afford a Bible, IF a copy was available.

In short - the people were left to rely on what they were told.

In fact - the 'catholic church council' had the opportunity to devise and teach all kinds of
Intricacies and portray them applicable to the new Covenant and Jesus' Doctrine, and the illiterate had no way to verify.

tt is well known, through the ages, illiteracy and afforadibility for the majority to have the ability to read and own a Bible has improved drastically.

It is also well know, the ability to read and own a Bible has not drastically improved that people actually read the Bible.

Looking back on history of a FEW, who could read, WHO had access to a Bible, WHO had been Taught by "hearing" Catholic clerics, began Verifying in the Bible, what they HAD been taught by "hearing", discrepancies, of what the Bible actually TAUGHT; and chose to challenge Catholic clerics; and eventually dissatisfied; broke away from the catholic church.

Not giving catholics all the credit for being lax in Reading and Verifying what they are told, however numerous polls indicate catholics rate high in tradition of believing what they are told, and rarely if ever read the Bible.

It is well known;
catholics teach to their congregates, to get their young children enrolled in being taught
A catholic prepared book of principles via a series prepared questions and prepared catholic acceptable answers.

Whereas a Protestant teaches to focus on Gods prepared Word and verify Gods Word with His word.

It is simply a matter of choice.
Do your own homework, or let someone else do it for you, and then tell you what to believe.

Glory to God,
Taken

Another ignorant diatribe brought to you by our historically-bankrupt friend, Taken.
YIKES . . .

EVERYTHING that is taught in these "prepared books", as YOU call them, is verified by Scripture.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is THE "prepared book" that our children learn from has every paragraph backed up with Scriptural support, accompanied by quotations from the Early Church and the Church Councils.

ANYBODY wishing to research ANY teaching can go directly to the verses listed in the footnotes.
They will find that EVERY doctrine listed is substantiated by Scripture.

So, you really should do YOUR homework before responding . . .

 

[Taken]

Another ignorant diatribe brought to you by our historically-bankrupt friend, Taken.
YIKES . . .

EVERYTHING that is taught in these "prepared books", as YOU call them, is verified by Scripture.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is THE "prepared book" that our children learn from has every paragraph backed up with Scriptural support, accompanied by quotations from the Early Church and the Church Councils.

ANYBODY wishing to research ANY teaching can go directly to the verses listed in the footnotes.
They will find that EVERY doctrine listed is substantiated by Scripture.

So, you really should do YOUR homework before responding . . .

LOL ~ Namecalling, and misunderstanding of Scripture...
That's all you've got?

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL ~ Namecalling, and misunderstanding of Scripture...
That's all you've got?

I never called you one name.
NOT sure where you're getting that.

As for "misunderstanding" Scripture - I never quoted any . . .

 

[Taken]

I never called you one name.
NOT sure where you're getting that.

Your post # 173.

As for "misunderstanding" Scripture - I never quoted any . . .

You identified your source, and your agreement with your source.

881
Catholic Catechism interpretation teaching...
The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church.

Ref Matt 16:18
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Disagree with your and your Church's Doctrine.

Peter is not a "this" or "Rock".

Jesus' Church IS HIS Church.
Jesus' is the Rock of HIS Church.
Jesus' Church IS BUILT member upon member of men who BELIEVE and CONFESS...............'THIS" --->

Matt 16:
[16]...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 1:
[42] And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your post # 173.

Post #173 was YOUR post - not mine . . .

You identified your source, and your agreement with your source.

881
Catholic Catechism interpretation teaching...
The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church.

Ref Matt 16:18
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Disagree with your and your Church's Doctrine.
Peter is not a "this" or "Rock".

Jesus' Church IS HIS Church.
Jesus' is the Rock of HIS Church.
Jesus' Church IS BUILT member upon member of men who BELIEVE and CONFESS...............'THIS" --->

Matt 16:
[16]...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 1:
[42] And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

And the problem with your awful interpretation - as I have schooled you in the past - is that you completely dismiss the fact that Jesus spoke ARAMAIC with His Apostles, not Greek.

There is not "small stone" or "large stone" in Aramaic. It's ALL just "KEPHA" - and that's what he called Simon.
That's why Paul refers to him as "Cephas" in his letters and not "Peter".
Matt. 16:18
"And so I say to you, you are KEPHA, and on this KEPHA I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."

I also schooled you in the past that Abraham is ALSO referred to as "The Rock" in the OT (Isa. 51:1).
You don't seem to retain the things you are taught . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes @BreadOfLife, revelation, and you have none. you should go back to school you need some schooling as you put it..

 

[marksman]

Thank you. LOL....I like that...have grandchildren BEFORE children.

You should not take as dogma/doctrine what every individual Catholic says to you for they could be giving their version of what they believe the CC teaches. Read what the CC teaches instead of what your RCC friends say they think it teaches. If they are preaching OPPOSITE of what the CC teaches then they are Catholic in name only.

Mary

Having been employed as a researcher, so I am versed in the correct methodology at getting at the truth.

If one person says this, I note it. If two say the same thing I note it. If three say the same thing I note it. If a hundred say the same thing I note I am getting a trend. If 1,000 say the say thing I am getting concrete evidence.

I have yet to meet a Catholic on the three continents I have lived on say that you don't have to earn your salvation. ergo.

 

[marksman]

No, the ones who understand the heresy of Pelagianism. There are stupid Catholics that say our salvation is based solely on works because they don't understand, and stupid anti-Catholics who refuse to understand.

Pelagianism is a belief in Christianity that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special divine aid.

Stupid? Nice pejorative there. What do you hope to achieve by its use?


Sorry to disappoint you but I do believe that original sin DID taint human nature.

 

[Taken]

Post #173 was YOUR post - not mine . . .

And the problem with your awful interpretation - as I have schooled you in the past - is that you completely dismiss the fact that Jesus spoke ARAMAIC with His Apostles, not Greek.

There is not "small stone" or "large stone" in Aramaic. It's ALL just "KEPHA" - and that's what he called Simon.
That's why Paul refers to him as "Cephas" in his letters and not "Peter".
Matt. 16:18
"And so I say to you, you are KEPHA, and on this KEPHA I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."

I also schooled you in the past that Abraham is ALSO referred to as "The Rock" in the OT (Isa. 51:1).
You don't seem to retain the things you are taught . . .

I am well aware your church has appointed your pope, the INFALLIBLE school MASTER, and you being a member of "your church" have appointed yourself, the infallible school teacher according to your INFALLIBLE MASTER..."your pope, your holy father".

You have failed to notice, not everyone has agreed to be "your student", in agreement with "you" or "your holy father; your pope"!

Isa.51
[1] Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
[2] Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.

Men build "buildings", of stone and rock, dedicated unto God.

The "buildings" men build, BECAME "corrupt", and "continue" to BECOME "corrupt"...by the very men "who" are appointed "head master of the buildings".

Jesus "foretold" the buildings would be destroyed; and then one building was an example; being destroyed before the eyes of the people.

God "foretold" HIS PEOPLE, would be out from the "stock children" of ABRAHAM, and Abraham their Promised "earthly father".
(Yet even when all of Abrahams "stock children" are Planted, to ALSO, be a son of God, they shall reject the offer, and wither away as rubble.)

Scripture "foretold" Jesus would BUILD HIS Church, UPON:
Belief:
in God, in Jesus is the Christ and Son of God.
Faith:
(Gifted to men who so Belief
Heartfelt Confession:
of the believers.

Jesus is the ROCK and ESTABLISHED Cornerstone of HIS CHURCH

THOSE men ^ Believers, Fathiful, Confessors;

Become;
The stones upon stone; becoming established members of Christ Jesus' Church, BY and Through the POWER of the "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
(Peter, John, and all (but one) of Jesus' Appointed disciples, and many others who joined in being disciples OF JESUS, are all stones, one upon another, becoming; JESUS' Established CHURCH)

Become; ALSO,
Forgiven their sins, Freed from sin, Sin no more, sealed and established forever a son of God, BY and Through the POWER of the "indwelling" Holy Spirit.

Become; ALSO,
Promised "sons of ABRAHAM", appointed to "inherit" Abraham's "promised land"....
WHICH shall be the SAME LAND;
WHERE:
Jesus' Earthly Kingdom's THRONE and head KING (Jesus) government of the WORLD, shall be situated.

Catholics APPOINT a succession of random men their "earthly holy father".
God did no such thing.
Jesus did no such thing.

All men WHO accept God as their "Holy Father", become "holy sons of God"..
and by Promise, become:
"earthly Faithful sons of man; Faithful Abraham".

Jesus is MANKINDS Example, MY Teacher.

Jesus is the "Faithful earthly Son of Man";
"Faithful Abraham"

Jesus is the "Holy Son of God";
"God Almighty"

And EVERY Man; Jew or Gentile; who follows Jesus' Example; Jesus' Teaching;
Becomes the same;
...sons of man; Faithful Abraham
...sons of God; holy sons

Catholics make very clear, their teachings, who they follow and who is their "holy father"

And Still, I disagree with you and your church's teaching.