quick quiz

[Bible_Gazer]

Well the high priest wasn't the only person that could go in the most holy place.
so if he did died someone else could go get him out.
example = those who where in charge of the tabernacle - setup and tearing down

Just another hearsay:
I thought I heard they would used the flesh hook to pull him out.

 

[Willie T]

Uh, who has an example of one ever dying in there, and having to be pulled out?

 

[Windmillcharge]

on the O.T the Tabernacle in the wilderness when the High priest entered the
Holy of Holies.. where does it say in scripture ????.THEY TIED A ROPE AROUND HIS LEG TO DRAG HIM OUT IF HE DIED IN THERE

Try:-http://kotzkblog.blogspot.com/2018/03/166-did-high-priest-have-rope-tied.html
about a 1/4 of the way down you'll find this:-
“...he was to enter into a place more than holy than all. The other priests, the Levites and the people stood around him in three rows and lifted their hands over him in prayer, and a golden chain was tied to his leg. He took three steps and all the others came to a stop and followed him no further. He took three more steps and went round to his place; three more and he closed his eyes and linked himself to the upper world.”[7]

A second reference in the Zohar refers to a ‘golden rope’. “Rav Yitzchak said: ‘A rope was tied to the Kohen’s leg when he went in, so that should he die there they could pull him out.” [8]

Thus we have two textual references to the ‘rope around the ankle’ story.

This jewish blog has investigated this legend, that is his words, and found these two references.

As he comments:-
And finally, assuming a High Priest dies in the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur, there would be no need to haul him out by a rope, because his body could simply be removed by another Cohen, a Levi, or even a Yisrael if necessary:

As the Talmud states:

“Anyone may enter the sanctuary (Heichal[10]) whether to build, to repair or to remove impurity.”[11]

 

[Deborah_]

I read that the veil was made of very strong material and was approximately 3 feet in thickness.

I'm pretty sure that's a myth - every time I hear it, the thickness has increased!
Think about it... a structure 3 feet thick would be a wall, not a veil/curtain. And you wouldn't be able to hang it on poles (Exodus 26:31-33). No, it was thick material - like a tapestry - but more like 3 millimetres thick than 3 feet!

 

[Heart2Soul]

I'm pretty sure that's a myth - every time I hear it, the thickness has increased!
Think about it... a structure 3 feet thick would be a wall, not a veil/curtain. And you wouldn't be able to hang it on poles (Exodus 26:31-33). No, it was thick material - like a tapestry - but more like 3 millimetres thick than 3 feet!

I have also read it took 300 men to carry it....but I am no expert theologian on the dimensions of the temple and all aspects of it.

The veil was not a small curtain like you see in some movies. The veil was 60 feet long, 30 feet wide, and was four inches thick. The veil was so massive and heavy that it took 300 priests to manipulate it. An important point here is that no one could simply tear the veil themselves. It would take more than human strength to tear it. The analogy is that it took the mighty hand of God Himself to tear it supernaturally and this tearing, which represents the removal of the separation of God and man, could not be done by humans. It had to be done by God alone and that’s the point. No one can remove our separation from God but God Himself (Isaiah 59:2). First John 2:2 says that “He [Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” Since Jesus’ death atoned for our sins, Jesus’ sacrifice allowed for the veil to be torn and thus, the separation between God and man was able to be removed.

Read more: Tearing Of The Temple Curtain: Why Was This Significant?

 

[Ezra]

I'm sure they did. How else would they get them out of there if they died?

there is no known history of anyone dying in the holly of hollies ..there was a ceremonial cleaning they had go through first every thing had be right before entering the first section .other wise burn toast

 

[Ezra]

Try:-http://kotzkblog.blogspot.com/2018/03/166-did-high-priest-have-rope-tied.html
about a 1/4 of the way down you'll find this:-
“...he was to enter into a place more than holy than all. The other priests, the Levites and the people stood around him in three rows and lifted their hands over him in prayer, and a golden chain was tied to his leg. He took three steps and all the others came to a stop and followed him no further. He took three more steps and went round to his place; three more and he closed his eyes and linked himself to the upper world.”[7]

A second reference in the Zohar refers to a ‘golden rope’. “Rav Yitzchak said: ‘A rope was tied to the Kohen’s leg when he went in, so that should he die there they could pull him out.” [8]

Thus we have two textual references to the ‘rope around the ankle’ story.

This jewish blog has investigated this legend, that is his words, and found these two references.

As he comments:-
And finally, assuming a High Priest dies in the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur, there would be no need to haul him out by a rope, because his body could simply be removed by another Cohen, a Levi, or even a Yisrael if necessary:

As the Talmud states:

“Anyone may enter the sanctuary (Heichal[10]) whether to build, to repair or to remove impurity.”[11]

i have talked with several experts on this all of Jewish origin so there was no rope

 

[Harvest 1874]

The fine twined linen was very coarse if the curtain was 3 ft. thick and they would have been very heavy to boot . I think that what you were trying to say was that each of the curtains was 28 cubits in length and 4 cubits in width. [Ex 26:2]

Let us clear up some of the confusion, first of all neither the “door” (the first vail) nor the Second Vail to the Most Holy of the Tabernacle was as thick as is being suggested. Of a sufficient thickness to withstand the constant travels yes, but three feet thick, no!

In fact it was not the vail located in the Tabernacle that inspired this false idea at all, but rather the rent vail in Herod’s Temple (Matt 27:51) at the death of Christ.

Are the dimensions of this veil given in the Scriptures?

No -- The principal sources of information are Josephus and other writers of his time. According to Josephus and the Talmud the dimensions are given as Height 40 cubits and Width 10 cubits. It is described also as being of great thickness, a palm or hand breadth wrought of gold and purple and proportionately strong. A palm or handbreadth is given in the Oxford Bible as approximately 3 1/2 inches; a cubit being about 19 to 21 inches.

An interesting fact about this rent vail is that it was torn, not from the bottom toward the top, as would be the expectation if it were the result of wear, but from the top to the bottom, as indicating it was a manifestation of divine power.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Well the high priest wasn't the only person that could go in the most holy place.
so if he did died someone else could go get him out.
example = those who where in charge of the tabernacle - setup and tearing down

Just another hearsay:
I thought I heard they would used the flesh hook to pull him out.

Actually the only other person permitted in the Most Holy (and this only during a certain period) was Moses. After his death no one else was ever permitted in the Most Holy.

As for those who were in charge of setting up and tearing down the Tabernacle, this task was given to the various tribes each with its own particular work. The Sons of Kohath were assigned the task of carrying the furnishings, but they would not be permitted to do so until after the High Priest and the under-priest had gone in and covered all the furnishings according to the dictates of the Lord less they should look upon the holy things and die.

The Tabernacle remain in its position until the cloud of the Lord which overshadowed it moved, this could at times be for very long periods, thus IF anyone had died in the Most Holy they might be there for a long time.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Try:-http://kotzkblog.blogspot.com/2018/03/166-did-high-priest-have-rope-tied.html
about a 1/4 of the way down you'll find this:-
“...he was to enter into a place more than holy than all. The other priests, the Levites and the people stood around him in three rows and lifted their hands over him in prayer, and a golden chain was tied to his leg. He took three steps and all the others came to a stop and followed him no further. He took three more steps and went round to his place; three more and he closed his eyes and linked himself to the upper world.”[7]

A second reference in the Zohar refers to a ‘golden rope’. “Rav Yitzchak said: ‘A rope was tied to the Kohen’s leg when he went in, so that should he die there they could pull him out.” [8]

Thus we have two textual references to the ‘rope around the ankle’ story.

This jewish blog has investigated this legend, that is his words, and found these two references.

As he comments:-
And finally, assuming a High Priest dies in the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur, there would be no need to haul him out by a rope, because his body could simply be removed by another Cohen, a Levi, or even a Yisrael if necessary:

As the Talmud states:

“Anyone may enter the sanctuary (Heichal[10]) whether to build, to repair or to remove impurity.”[11]

Hogwash! This is nothing more than Jewish tradition, the vain babblings of men.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Hogwash! This is nothing more than Jewish tradition, the vain babblings of men.

Do read an article before replying.
If you had read it you would have seen that the author had researched this lengend and could find only two references to something like the legend.

You will see that the question of adding to the approved priestly dress was rased as was the practicle answer to the problem, that the removal of unclean items was permitted from the holy of holies.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Do read an article before replying.
If you had read it you would have seen that the author had researched this lengend and could find only two references to something like the legend.

You will see that the question of adding to the approved priestly dress was rased as was the practicle answer to the problem, that the removal of unclean items was permitted from the holy of holies.

I read what you posted, what the individual found through his own personal investigation and studies, studies which he himself referred to as "legends" i.e. Jewish tradition not necessarily based on facts, and thus hogwash.

My reply was not meant as an insult to you nor to the individual author, I understand he was merely relaying what he had found in regards to the issue through his studies.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm sure they did. How else would they get them out of there if they died?

They were not supposed to die while doing what God had commanded. It is only if they violated the commandments that they would die.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They were not supposed to die while doing what God had commanded. It is only if they violated the commandments that they would die.

I know!

 

[Jay Ross]

I read that the veil was made of very strong material and was approximately 3 feet in thickness.

The fine twined linen was very coarse if the curtain was 3 ft. thick and they would have been very heavy to boot . I think that what you were trying to say was that each of the curtains was 28 cubits in length and 4 cubits in width. [Ex 26:2]

Let us clear up some of the confusion, first of all neither the “door” (the first vail) nor the Second Vail to the Most Holy of the Tabernacle was as thick as is being suggested. Of a sufficient thickness to withstand the constant travels yes, but three feet thick, no!

In fact it was not the vail located in the Tabernacle that inspired this false idea at all, but rather the rent vail in Herod’s Temple (Matt 27:51) at the death of Christ.

Are the dimensions of this veil given in the Scriptures?

No -- The principal sources of information are Josephus and other writers of his time. According to Josephus and the Talmud the dimensions are given as Height 40 cubits and Width 10 cubits. It is described also as being of great thickness, a palm or hand breadth wrought of gold and purple and proportionately strong. A palm or handbreadth is given in the Oxford Bible as approximately 3 1/2 inches; a cubit being about 19 to 21 inches.

An interesting fact about this rent vail is that it was torn, not from the bottom toward the top, as would be the expectation if it were the result of wear, but from the top to the bottom, as indicating it was a manifestation of divine power.

Before you attribute to me that I had said that the veil of the Tent of meeting was 3 ft. thick, please note that I had also provided the reference to scripture which stated the length and the width of the curtain that was made and that it was of fine twined linen.

Here is the passage where the specification for the tabernacle is given: -

Exodus 26:1-6: - The Tabernacle
(Ex 36:8-38)

26:1 "Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine woven linen and blue, purple, and scarlet thread; with artistic designs of cherubim you shall weave them. 2 The length of each curtain shall be twenty-eight cubits, and the width of each curtain four cubits. And every one of the curtains shall have the same measurements. 3 Five curtains shall be coupled to one another, and the other five curtains shall be coupled to one another. 4 And you shall make loops of blue yarn on the edge of the curtain on the selvedge of one set, and likewise you shall do on the outer edge of the other curtain of the second set. 5 Fifty loops you shall make in the one curtain, and fifty loops you shall make on the edge of the curtain that is on the end of the second set, that the loops may be clasped to one another. 6 And you shall make fifty clasps of gold, and couple the curtains together with the clasps, so that it may be one tabernacle.
​

You then go on to speak of the curtain in Herod's temple which was not on topic but you deliberately put the spotlight on your "brilliance" as a "scholar." If you missed the point of my simple post which was written to correct a small error in that the width of the curtain was by error called the thickness of the curtain instead of its width. I had with the use of the scriptural reference corrected this small error and had left it at that. By inferring that I had made this mistake by quoting what I had written demonstrates your scholarship in that you did not correctly indicate the purpose of my post but attributed the confusion to me as if I had started the confusion.

I also need to apologise to Heart2soul in that I had wrongly attributed this error of confusion to her by what I had written in my response to her post when in fact she had stated that she had read this fact written by someone else. She was in fact highlighting another error of confusion that is easily accepted as fact.

As Willie said, this is not something that needs a sword drawn over and a battle begun to prove ones intellectual prowess on all things scriptural.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

Well, when you consider that none of us has ever seen a curtain more than maybe an eighth of and inch (1/8"), or possibly as thick as three sixteenths of an inch (3/16"), I think we all know that three foot (3') measurement couldn't have possibly been anything but the width. Even the walls of Noah's arc weren't three feet thick. LOL

I have heard that the curtain was 4" (Jewish Tradition, not verified by the Scriptures), but even that sounds ridiculous. I figure 4" might possibly have been the thickness of Noah's arc's sidewalls.

 

[Nancy]

It does not. You wont find it. But it is Jewish tradition...that's where it came from.
I also heard that the High Priest had bells around the hem of his skirt ..( I do believe there is a scripture verse for that somewhere, in the description of his holy garments)...so that the people waiting to hear that he was moving ...and as he came out, knew the blood had been accepted.

Yes! I do remember some kind of verse

It does not. You wont find it. But it is Jewish tradition...that's where it came from.
I also heard that the High Priest had bells around the hem of his skirt ..( I do believe there is a scripture verse for that somewhere, in the description of his holy garments)...so that the people waiting to hear that he was moving ...and as he came out, knew the blood had been accepted.

This is what I see:
Exodus 28:31-35 31"Make the robe of the ephod entirely of blue cloth, 32with an opening for the head in its center. There shall be a woven edge like a collar around this opening, so that it will not tear. 33Make pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn around the hem of the robe, with gold bells between them. 34The gold bells and the pomegranates are to alternate around the hem of the robe. 35Aaron must wear it when he ministers. The sound of the bells will be heard when he enters the Holy Place before the LORD and when he comes out, so that he will not die.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Before you attribute to me that I had said that the veil of the Tent of meeting was 3 ft. thick, please note that I had also provided the reference to scripture which stated the length and the width of the curtain that was made and that it was of fine twined linen.

First of all I never attributed this remark to you nor did I attribute it to Heart2Soul as she merely stated that she had read somewhere that the veil was approximately 3 feet in thickness.

I await my apology for this misunderstanding, the same which you rendered to Heart2Soul when you made the very same mistake in response to her comment.

This is what happens when one is to quick to respond rather than carefully considering what is stated first.

You then go on to speak of the curtain in Herod's temple which was not on topic but you deliberately put the spotlight on your "brilliance" as a "scholar."

I think you better go back and reexamine that post once again my friend, because it is you who are the one who is off topic not I.

Heart2Soul was referring to the vail which the High Priest had to pass beneath in order to enter the Most Holy (i.e. the Second Vail), you then mistakenly assumed she was referring to the curtains which were draped over the structure itself.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Well, when you consider that none of us has ever seen a curtain more than maybe an eighth of and inch (1/8"), or possibly as thick as three sixteenths of an inch (3/16"), I think we all know that three foot (3') measurement couldn't have possibly been anything but the width. Even the walls of Noah's arc weren't three feet thick. LOL

I have heard that the curtain was 4" (Jewish Tradition, not verified by the Scriptures), but even that sounds ridiculous. I figure 4" might possibly have been the thickness of the arc's sidewalls.

I agree that the idea of a 4" thick curtain seems a bit extreme were it the thickness of the curtain to the Most Holy of the Tabernacle which was only 15ft X 15ft, but it may have not been all that improvable with regards to the same in the Temple which was supposedly 60ft long and 30ft wide, nevertheless this is only based on tradition, not fact.

 

[Jay Ross]

First of all I never attributed this remark to you nor did I attribute it to Heart2Soul as she merely stated that she had read somewhere that the veil was approximately 3 feet in thickness.

I await my apology for this misunderstanding, the same which you rendered to Heart2Soul when you made the very same mistake in response to her comment.

This is what happens when one is to quick to respond rather than carefully considering what is stated first.

I think you better go back and reexamine that post once again my friend, because it is you who are the one who is off topic not I.

Heart2Soul was referring to the vail which the High Priest had to pass beneath in order to enter the Most Holy (i.e. the Second Vail), you then mistakenly assumed she was referring to the curtains which were draped over the structure itself.

First of all, by replying to my post as you did, your comments were suggesting that there was a need to correct the facts in my post as you saw them when you followed my referenced post with: -

Let us clear up some of the confusion, first of all neither the “door” (the first vail) nor the Second Vail to the Most Holy of the Tabernacle was as thick as is being suggested. Of a sufficient thickness to withstand the constant travels yes, but three feet thick, no!

Was it necessary to attach your post to my response to Heart2Soul.

Could you have just started your post with these words: - "Let us clear up some of the confusions that is written about the thickness of the curtains in the Tabernacle in the desert. First of all, . . . "

But you did not. You posted as if you were replying to what I had posted in making light that the curtain was 3 foot thick by saying that if it was 3 ft. thick that it would have been very heavy to boot.

There was no need for you to reference my post at all.

This is what happens when one is to quick to respond rather that carefully consider how one should respond first.

Do you understand my point. As I see it, your response to my critisim of your post was to shift the blame to me as if I was to blame for your poor choice of responding how you did to what had previously been written.