The Issue of Calvinism.

[justbyfaith]

I know what the order is, but the purpose of predestination is clearly presented in Romans 8:29 and yet perverted by the Calvinists. Study the Westminster Confesssion of Faith.

I don't really have the time or resource to do that. My understanding of Calvinism will therefore remain based on my understanding of the acronym TULIP.

 

[justbyfaith]

I know what the order is, but the purpose of predestination is clearly presented in Romans 8:29 and yet perverted by the Calvinists. Study the Westminster Confesssion of Faith.

Also, the point is, that in Romans 8:30, justification is a result of predestination. So you cannot say that predestination is only unto being completely conformed to the image of Christ. It is also unto being initially declared righteous through faith in Jesus Christ (salvation).

 

[Waiting on him]

How does this apply?

It clearly says without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit a man cannot call him Lord.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes...

Ok. All were in one man ...Adam. If He paid the ransom for Adam ...are we speaking of a single man or all in Adam? Was the ransom for all in sin? If for all then why remove only a few and create a new perfect man in Christ? Head and body? Ephesians 2:10
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 9:23
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 8:18
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Hebrews 10:5
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[justbyfaith]

It clearly says without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit a man cannot call him Lord.

So how does that apply to what is written in the OP?

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok. All were in one man ...Adam. If He paid the ransom for Adam ...are we speaking of a single man or all in Adam? Was the ransom for all in sin? If for all then why remove only a few and create a new perfect man in Christ? Head and body? Ephesians 2:10
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 9:23
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 8:18
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Hebrews 10:5
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

I'm not following....you appear to be speaking a different language.

I have not been taught the same things that you have been taught...you are going to have to explain to me what you are trying to say by this, in your own words.

 

[Waiting on him]

So how does that apply to what is written in the OP?

Faith,profession,belief,natural man can’t perform it. It’s all performed by the Holy Spirit. He receives all the Glory.

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm not following....you appear to be speaking a different language.

I have not been taught the same things that you have been taught...you are going to have to explain to me what you are trying to say by this, in your own words.

Newness of tunges?

 

[Waiting on him]

Newness of tunges?

Not taught of man

 

[farouk]

I can harmonize the first 3 of the five.

I could probably harmonize all 5...

 

[CoreIssue]

In this thread I basically wanted to take the main points on both sides and put them together so we can come to a better conclusion as to how they come together in harmony, if we can find that in these verses.

A synopsis of what was said in the other threads so that we can continue forward with a fresh perspective.

Both sides have already stated their case clearly.

Calvinism is a Cult

 

[Mjh29]

Both sides have already stated their case clearly.

Calvinism is a Cult

And how does he prove Calvinism is a Cult? By slandering and appealing to feelings. When asked to state Scriptures that support him? Nope. Much easier to just lash out and spew backless nonsense. This is getting old, Issues. If you are not going to defend your claims, why make them?

"I have," You say, "But you aren't listening.

Oh, but we are. Enough that Brother @Preacher4Truth asked you to explain something to him from Romans 8, and what did you do?

............

Nothing. You simply scoffed and ridiculed without any real Biblical evidence. I guess your hoping if you say it enough, regardless of the factlessness of your claims, you'll be able to brainwash people into believing what you say.

..... hey, isn't that what cults do?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Both sides have already stated their case clearly.

Calvinism is a Cult

You've failed in your endeavors. Nothing you believe so far is backed up by Scripture.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

And how does he prove Calvinism is a Cult? By slandering and appealing to feelings. When asked to state Scriptures that support him? Nope. Much easier to just lash out and spew backless nonsense. This is getting old, Issues. If you are not going to defend your claims, why make them?

"I have," You say, "But you aren't listening.

Oh, but we are. Enough that Brother @Preacher4Truth asked you to explain something to him from Romans 8, and what did you do?

............

Nothing. You simply scoffed and ridiculed without any real Biblical evidence. I guess your hoping if you say it enough, regardless of the factlessness of your claims, you'll be able to brainwash people into believing what you say.

..... hey, isn't that what cults do?

Sad isn't it?

 

[CoreIssue]

And how does he prove Calvinism is a Cult? By slandering and appealing to feelings. When asked to state Scriptures that support him? Nope. Much easier to just lash out and spew backless nonsense. This is getting old, Issues. If you are not going to defend your claims, why make them?

"I have," You say, "But you aren't listening.

Oh, but we are. Enough that Brother @Preacher4Truth asked you to explain something to him from Romans 8, and what did you do?

............

Nothing. You simply scoffed and ridiculed without any real Biblical evidence. I guess your hoping if you say it enough, regardless of the factlessness of your claims, you'll be able to brainwash people into believing what you say.

..... hey, isn't that what cults do?

You do not even know the meaning slander.

 

[Mjh29]

slan·der
/ˈslandər/
noun

1. 1.
   the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

I love how you say this as though THIS proves your point at all. Any miniscule way to throw mud.

Like a true Christian.

 

[Kermos]

snip...
The Calvinists solve some of these problems by just announcing that there is no free will and they have their pet "proof texts" to support that contention. Yet there are other spots in Scripture (including from the Lord Jesus Himself) that indicate the certainty of free will. Jesus said in Matthew 23:37: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling." What we have come up against is the intersection (dare we even say the "crossroad"?) of God's sovereignty and the free will of man. Theologians have been arguing about this one for a long time. But, let's put our heads together anyway.

Hello,

In Matthew 23:37, the Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". It does not follow that the verse can be read as you had the free will to come; therefore, Matthew 23:37 does not support "free will". The Lord Jesus said Himself that they fought against Him, so to speak, as opposed to fighting for Him - recall the Apostle Matthew recorded the Lord Jesus saying "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Matthew 12:28). They were in bondage to captivity of the world for Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". A person can only be saved by the intervention of the Almighty God named the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is to His glory.

 

[Mjh29]

Hello,

In Matthew 23:37, the Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". It does not follow that the verse can be read as you had the free will to come; therefore, Matthew 23:37 does not support "free will". The Lord Jesus said Himself that they fought against Him, so to speak, as opposed to fighting for Him - recall the Apostle Matthew recorded the Lord Jesus saying "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Matthew 12:28). They were in bondage to captivity of the world for Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". A person can only be saved by the intervention of the Almighty God named the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is to His glory.

Well put! Welcome!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Hello,

In Matthew 23:37, the Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". It does not follow that the verse can be read as you had the free will to come; therefore, Matthew 23:37 does not support "free will". The Lord Jesus said Himself that they fought against Him, so to speak, as opposed to fighting for Him - recall the Apostle Matthew recorded the Lord Jesus saying "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Matthew 12:28). They were in bondage to captivity of the world for Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". A person can only be saved by the intervention of the Almighty God named the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is to His glory.

But yet, Peter noted that the Lord "was unwilling that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". I agree that God the Father provides the rain that softens the "soil" so that the word of God can penetrate and take root. But, I do believe that we have a choice to surrender (or not). I do not believe that "irresistible grace" is taught by Scripture.

 

[Waiting on him]

I wish all would make a strong an argument for Christ as everyone seems to for Calvin.