Hello
I fail to see how this establishes one gospel. Everyone is saved by faith.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PETER AND PAUL
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I fail to see how this establishes one gospel. Everyone is saved by faith.
Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You just said it, when you said, "Everyone is saved by faith."
The Promise by Faith first given Abraham was The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul said the Gospel was preached to Abraham. At the end of John 8, Jesus said Abraham saw His day, and was glad. That's the same... Gospel we have believed. Same Gospel Paul preached to Gentiles.
Hello
The only scripture that states the gospel of Jesus Christ is found in Mark
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Mark 1:1
It says it is the gospel proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God. That is not the same gospel Paul preached as the gospel of Christ and his atoning death for all that believe.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Hello
Let's go back to an earlier post to see where these posts originated.
You are saying that there is only one gospel.... so if you are willing cite some scripture to support this......please show me the gospel of Jesus, Peter, and Paul ....not all the verses just name of the book chapter and verse number.....and I will be more than happy to consider them.
Let me clarify.......Paul did not preach the same gospel but he did have the gospel of God in common with Peter (link at bottom)...Paul received further revelation from Jesus.
PETER AND PAUL PREACHED THE SAME GOSPEL
Hello
I wanted just to clarify something....as I replied the gospel of Christ is only found in Paul. What you were saying about Abraham, however is right, he was given the gospel (that the nations would be blessed....and this would be through Israel but primarily through Christ)....he was given the gospel of God.
The gospel of God is the progressive revelation( which includes the gospel preached by Peter) given for salvation starting in Genesis 3:15 and is all based on faith...all by grace...all by the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ.
Let me know and I would be happy to give you a copy of a post I wrote on the gospel of God.
Davy
Well-Known Member
It doesn't work that way. The burden of proof lays on you.
I have ALREADY CITED Scripture to show that Paul preached the Gospel of the kingdom to Gentiles, and that's enough Scripture proof. And our Lord Jesus' command to His disciples to go preach The Gospel to every nation, which I also cited to you, certainly ought to be more than well enough Bible proof of the SAME Gospel to both Jew and Gentile. Furthermore, when Paul said there is neither Jew nor Greek, but all are ONE in Christ Jesus, that is even more... solid Scripture proof of ONE Gospel.
But deceived folks like you would rather keep pushing a LIE instead of coming to the Truth written in God's Word. Like Jesus said about the Pharisees that believed on Him, but wouldn't openly confess Him, lest they lose the praise of men, for they valued the praise of men more than the praise of God. (John 12).
Davy
Well-Known Member
Glad you recognize that about Abraham, because Apostle Paul preached it in Romans 4 and Galatians 3, and our Lord Jesus Himself showed it at the end of John 8.
But what you apparently missed about that, which the majority do, is how The Gospel preached to Abraham is the same... Gospel of Jesus Christ that Christ's Church has believed. You still are relying on men's leaven because of trying to make a distinction between Israel vs. Christ. NO! The Gentiles are NOT blessed by Israel! BOTH, believing Israel and believing Gentiles are blessed 'together', by The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. Big... difference.
Thus The Gospel of Jesus Christ began with Abraham, and it then continued with his son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where God's Birthright to Israel stopped, but still resides today, for Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). And Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea to Roman Gentile believers in Romans 9, when Hosea was written to the ten tribes of Israel. Paul quoted that to Gentile believers because he well understood God's Plan of Salvation through His Son of how believing Gentiles would be graffed into the ROOT (Jesus). And both believing Israel and believing Gentiles would become ONE BODY.
The following is Jesus praying to The Father before He was delivered up. He was praying for His Apostles whom The Father gave Him, and also for all those who believe on Him by their preaching of The Gospel (i.e., "through their word")...
John 17:18-23
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
22 And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one:
23 I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me.
KJV
Our Lord Jesus didn't preach separation leaven doctrines like the doctors of Dispensationalism does. The progressive Salvation Plan from our Heavenly Father is to all those who believe on His Son to be ONE in Him and His Son, not two separate entities.
Hello
Here are the gospels
Jesus Christ's gospels: John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Israel had to receive Christ and believe on him; believe he is the Christ, the Son of God.
Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Jesus preached the Davidic kingdom promised Israel was at hand.
Peter's gospel: Peter preached remission of sins in the name of Jesus (Acts 10:43). Peter taught the gospel of the kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6 2 Peter 1:11). Israel would inherit the promise of the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 1:32 Genesis 13:15). Israel would rule and reign with Jesus for a thousand year period (Revelation 20:6). Israel would be a light for salvation unto the Gentile nations that would enter the kingdom (Isaiah 42:6).
Paul's gospel: Paul taught the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 2:7). Paul taught salvation to all freely by faith in Christ apart from the covenants of Israel and apart from keeping the law (Romans 9:4 Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:19).
Davy
Well-Known Member
Our Lord Jesus told the truth. Unbelief on Christ Jesus as God's promised Saviour means death of the soul-spirit. Flesh is not something that is saved. We all shall cast off our flesh, either at flesh death or at the 'last trump' change on Jesus' return. This unbelief by Israel makes no distinction between The Gospel our Lord Jesus taught and The Gospel which Paul taught. Dying in one's sins still applies to all... who reject Jesus Christ.
Apostle Paul preached the 'kingdom' also with The Gospel (Rom.14:17; 1 Cor.4:20; 1 Cor.6:9-10; 1 Cor.15:24; Eph.5:5; Col.1; 2 Tim.4:1; 2 Tim.4:18; etc.).
Just because you don't often see the name Jesus in the same phrase as the 'kingdom' when Paul preached The Gospel doesn't mean Paul didn't preach Jesus' Kingdom. You cannot try to use that as an excuse to push a doctrine of man like you're doing with claiming 2 different gospels.
Hello
The gospel is progressive!!!!!
The gospels are all true but we have the revelations from Jesus to Paul for the completed gospel.
Paul didn't refute the Davidic earthly kingdom for Israel but he preached the heavenly kingdom not the earthly Davidic kingdom.
You say I follow man's doctrine ( dispensationalists) but aren't we all under teachers? Didn't God set teachers in the church? Who taught you?
How do we test teachers? Isn't it by scripture?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
The "gospels" (plural)???
There's only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now there are different ADMINISTRATIONS of that same Gospel.
Christ's Kingdom will be right here, on earth, not up in the clouds. He is coming to earth... in the clouds, not staying in the clouds!
Even Rev.20:9 shows the "camp of the saints" and beloved city is upon this earth, so how do you explain that???
What you have believed is a lie built upon other lies from men's doctrines, and not from God's Word. You see, your belief in the lie of a Davidic kingdom as separate from Christ's Kingdom wouldn't even be possible if it weren't for John Darby's Dispensationalist idea that the kingdom of Israel will be re-established on earth while Christ's Church is raptured to Heaven.
In reality per God's Word, Christ's physical Kingdom to come is... the future Davidic kingdom on earth. Jesus is coming to establish it on earth with His elect saints. It will be made up of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, just like Apostle Paul taught (Eph.2; Gal.3; Rom.9). And then outside of that "camp of the saints" on earth, will be the nations of the unsaved like Rev.20, and Rev.22:14-15 shows.
Hello
You said: The "gospels" (plural)??? There's only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You are wrong in saying there is only one gospel. You are right in saying there is only one gospel that saves today; Paul's gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is our gospel.
Here is another gospel:
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
This is not the same gospel we are to believe is it? This gospel is not for you is it?....I know that I am not waiting to be a blessing to the nations as a member of the body of Christ.
You said: Christ's Kingdom will be right here, on earth, not up in the clouds. He is coming to earth... in the clouds, not staying in the clouds!
Are you saying the body of Christ will not sit in heavenly places in Christ according to Ephesians 2:6 ?
Even Rev.20:9 shows the "camp of the saints" and beloved city is upon this earth, so how do you explain that???
I agree it is on the earth but that does not refute a heavenly kingdom.
You said: In reality per God's Word, Christ's physical Kingdom to come is... the future Davidic kingdom on earth ( I agree). Jesus is coming to establish it on earth with His elect saints ( I agree). It will be made up of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles (I agree) , just like Apostle Paul taught (Eph.2; Gal.3; Rom.9) (I say....No specific verses supplied) . And then outside of that "camp of the saints" on earth, will be the nations of the unsaved like Rev.20 (the camp of the saints is right after the millennial reign not the new heavens and earth), and Rev.22:14-15 shows ( I am not sure that the nations of the unsaved are in view here but rather Revelation 21:8 and those thrown into the lake of fire).
Finally:
I said: You say I follow man's doctrine ( dispensationalists) but aren't we all under teachers? Didn't God set teachers in the church? Who taught you?
How do we test teachers? Isn't it by scripture?
I did not receive an answer......would you care to answer this?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
OK, I have more time now to address your post... When you quoted me, I put it in green.
(You should always use " " quotation marks when you quote someone, like me in that line in green.)
No, I am correct and aligned with God's Word when saying there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only other gospel Apostle Paul spoke of was a false gospel:
Gal 1:6-8
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
KJV
I'll bet you didn't know that's how long your dual gospel ideas have been circulating among Christ's body. What you are preaching is a false gospel. John Darby in 1830's Great Britain actually was not the first one to preach it via his Dispensationalism. The Judaizers among Christ's Church in Apostle Paul's day were pushing another gospel too.
Well yes, sorry to break it to you, The Gospel preached to Abraham IS THE SAME GOSPEL WE HAVE BELIEVED! It wasn't the act of preaching how the nations were to be blessed. It was by Abraham's example of BELIEVING BY FAITH on God's Salvation Promise which is HOW we are blessed in Abraham. Let me say that another way...
God gave His Salvation Promise by Faith first to Abraham, and Abraham believed, and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. So likewise when we believe LIKE Abraham did, that is how we are blessed in The Gospel of Jesus Christ WITH Abraham, and become the "children of Abraham" like Apostle Paul said in Galatians 3.
(Again, you need to use quotation marks when quoting, or do the html quote thing.)
In Ephesians 2 there, Paul was speaking of us being raised with Christ by our Faith on Him and His resurrection. Paul was speaking of being raised spiritually, not literally in the physical...
Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
KJV
We are not... literally sitting with Jesus in Heaven on the right hand of His Father's throne. Sorry, your interpretation just doesn't support your claims. But in the SPIRITUAL SENSE, we are, that is our spirit is. But alas, that has nothing to do with a dual gospel idea you've been pushing, because God's Word reveals Christ's future Kingdom WILL be manifest right here on the earth, in the physical. And the Rev.20:9 verse about the "camp of the saints" on earth during Christ's future millennial reign reveals that.
I don't think you understand the idea of 'heavenly' at all. You apparently think the word 'heaven' always means the sky or something away from the earth. In reality, the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is, the angels, and also where the abode of hell also exists, is simply behind a veil in a different dimension. When Jesus comes, the heavenly dimension is going to be revealed to all. In other words, the two dimensions are going to be joined together in the same time and space. Heaven is coming here in toto when the full Godhead comes back to earth. This is how things originally were before Satan rebelled, as we see in Genesis 2 that God's Paradise of Eden was originally on earth, with His River flowing out of the Garden of Eden to feed four other rivers on earth.
The camp of the saints in Rev.20:9 exists during... the "thousand years". It is only at the ending of the thousand years that Satan is loosed to deceive the nations one final time to go up against that camp on earth.
The nations of Rev.20 are the unsaved peoples that will exist outside the camp of the saints and beloved city. That is the area our Lord Jesus called the "outer darkness". It is shown being outside the gates of the holy city per Rev.22:14-15. Ezekiel 47 is showing God's River back on earth during Christ's millennial reign, and the tree of life on either side of that River. So just because Rev.22:14-15 is showing the existence of tree of life along with the time of the wicked outside the gates doesn't mean that takes place after Christ's millennial reign of Rev.20. It is actually the "thousand years" time-frame, just a tidbit of info that was given John later and that he wrote down in Rev.22. (It's important to recognize the type of events in Revelation than be subject to men's order of thinking for Revelation.)
When you study God's Word for yourself, using the available tools God provided, and that includes some good Bible scholars of the past, you begin to learn the various historical Bible views and their origins. You then learn how to be more selective when you weigh God's Holy Writ with His help by The Holy Spirit.
The Dispensationalism I spoke of was one of Darby's ideas, not everything he included in it, but how he presented some of the Bible ideas with adding his own doctrines he got from somewhere else, like the pre-tribulational rapture theory he got from the Edward Irving movement in 1830's Great Britain. His Dispensationalist theories included his ideas that Israel would be re-established as a physical nation on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign while Christ and His Church reign from Heaven. That idea was created to support his belief on a pre-trib rapture. Now the dual gospel idea was a later invention influenced from Darby's Dispensationalist views.
E.W. Bullinger, an excellent British Bible scholar of the latter 1800's took Darby's earlier Dispensationalism and started the roots of the dual-gospel movement (I believe). Though Bullinger was an excellent Bible scholar of the Hebrew and Greek, he latched onto the pre-trib rapture doctrine which was popular in his day. Then other men later added their ideas to the movement, like J.B. Cole, O'Hair, Stam, etc.
(You should always use " " quotation marks when you quote someone, like me in that line in green.)
No, I am correct and aligned with God's Word when saying there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only other gospel Apostle Paul spoke of was a false gospel:
Gal 1:6-8
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
KJV
I'll bet you didn't know that's how long your dual gospel ideas have been circulating among Christ's body. What you are preaching is a false gospel. John Darby in 1830's Great Britain actually was not the first one to preach it via his Dispensationalism. The Judaizers among Christ's Church in Apostle Paul's day were pushing another gospel too.
Well yes, sorry to break it to you, The Gospel preached to Abraham IS THE SAME GOSPEL WE HAVE BELIEVED! It wasn't the act of preaching how the nations were to be blessed. It was by Abraham's example of BELIEVING BY FAITH on God's Salvation Promise which is HOW we are blessed in Abraham. Let me say that another way...
God gave His Salvation Promise by Faith first to Abraham, and Abraham believed, and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. So likewise when we believe LIKE Abraham did, that is how we are blessed in The Gospel of Jesus Christ WITH Abraham, and become the "children of Abraham" like Apostle Paul said in Galatians 3.
(Again, you need to use quotation marks when quoting, or do the html quote thing.)
In Ephesians 2 there, Paul was speaking of us being raised with Christ by our Faith on Him and His resurrection. Paul was speaking of being raised spiritually, not literally in the physical...
Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
KJV
We are not... literally sitting with Jesus in Heaven on the right hand of His Father's throne. Sorry, your interpretation just doesn't support your claims. But in the SPIRITUAL SENSE, we are, that is our spirit is. But alas, that has nothing to do with a dual gospel idea you've been pushing, because God's Word reveals Christ's future Kingdom WILL be manifest right here on the earth, in the physical. And the Rev.20:9 verse about the "camp of the saints" on earth during Christ's future millennial reign reveals that.
I don't think you understand the idea of 'heavenly' at all. You apparently think the word 'heaven' always means the sky or something away from the earth. In reality, the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is, the angels, and also where the abode of hell also exists, is simply behind a veil in a different dimension. When Jesus comes, the heavenly dimension is going to be revealed to all. In other words, the two dimensions are going to be joined together in the same time and space. Heaven is coming here in toto when the full Godhead comes back to earth. This is how things originally were before Satan rebelled, as we see in Genesis 2 that God's Paradise of Eden was originally on earth, with His River flowing out of the Garden of Eden to feed four other rivers on earth.
The camp of the saints in Rev.20:9 exists during... the "thousand years". It is only at the ending of the thousand years that Satan is loosed to deceive the nations one final time to go up against that camp on earth.
The nations of Rev.20 are the unsaved peoples that will exist outside the camp of the saints and beloved city. That is the area our Lord Jesus called the "outer darkness". It is shown being outside the gates of the holy city per Rev.22:14-15. Ezekiel 47 is showing God's River back on earth during Christ's millennial reign, and the tree of life on either side of that River. So just because Rev.22:14-15 is showing the existence of tree of life along with the time of the wicked outside the gates doesn't mean that takes place after Christ's millennial reign of Rev.20. It is actually the "thousand years" time-frame, just a tidbit of info that was given John later and that he wrote down in Rev.22. (It's important to recognize the type of events in Revelation than be subject to men's order of thinking for Revelation.)
When you study God's Word for yourself, using the available tools God provided, and that includes some good Bible scholars of the past, you begin to learn the various historical Bible views and their origins. You then learn how to be more selective when you weigh God's Holy Writ with His help by The Holy Spirit.
The Dispensationalism I spoke of was one of Darby's ideas, not everything he included in it, but how he presented some of the Bible ideas with adding his own doctrines he got from somewhere else, like the pre-tribulational rapture theory he got from the Edward Irving movement in 1830's Great Britain. His Dispensationalist theories included his ideas that Israel would be re-established as a physical nation on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign while Christ and His Church reign from Heaven. That idea was created to support his belief on a pre-trib rapture. Now the dual gospel idea was a later invention influenced from Darby's Dispensationalist views.
E.W. Bullinger, an excellent British Bible scholar of the latter 1800's took Darby's earlier Dispensationalism and started the roots of the dual-gospel movement (I believe). Though Bullinger was an excellent Bible scholar of the Hebrew and Greek, he latched onto the pre-trib rapture doctrine which was popular in his day. Then other men later added their ideas to the movement, like J.B. Cole, O'Hair, Stam, etc.
Why don't you show us exactly what false gospel Darby preached? Just because you have a problem with Dispensationalism or the pre-tribulation Rapture does not mean that there is a false gospel involved. And if you think there is, let's see what is your "true gospel" and contrast it with the so-called "false gospel". False accusations are just as bad as false gospels.
Hello
I gave this verse: Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
and you responded : Well yes, sorry to break it to you, The Gospel preached to Abraham IS THE SAME GOSPEL WE HAVE BELIEVED! It wasn't the act of preaching how the nations were to be blessed. It was by Abraham's example of BELIEVING BY FAITH on God's Salvation Promise which is HOW we are blessed in Abraham. Let me say that another way...
So scripture says the gospel was preached unto Abraham SAYING "In thee shall all nations be blessed"
but, you say this is not the gospel by saying "It wasn't the act of preaching how the nations were to be blessed."
I need not say more.
Hello
You said : E.W. Bullinger, an excellent British Bible scholar of the latter 1800's took Darby's earlier Dispensationalism and started the roots of the dual-gospel movement (I believe). Though Bullinger was an excellent Bible scholar of the Hebrew and Greek, he latched onto the pre-trib rapture doctrine which was popular in his day. Then other men later added their ideas to the movement, like J.B. Cole, O'Hair, Stam, etc
So are you saying you follow all of the teachings of those listed?
Hello
Once again;
I have supplied my verses to show the gospels preached by Jesus, Peter and Paul as per your guidelines.
So now, please supply your gospels from scripture that show Jesus, Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The 'dual' gospel ideas of Hyper-Dispensationalism is a false gospel, because it preaches that there are TWO gospels of Jesus Christ.
As I have already said before, the dual gospel falsehood grew out of Darby's Dispensationalist theories about God's Israel being a separate entity from Christ's Church. Darby taught that the nation of Israel would be restored on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign while the Church was raptured to heaven and reigns from heaven with Jesus. So Darby, et al, turned Apostle Paul's mention of two administrations of the same Gospel of Jesus Christ, with Paul sent to the uncircumcision, and Peter to the circumcision, into two different gospels.
