Tongues and prophecy today are not of the Holy Spirit. They are works of the sinful flesh.
The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power
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There you go again using the word "church" as if everyone knew what you meant! Perhaps those in the Church are doing it and you have wrongly identified someone else or some other group or groups and so designated them...
Yet you use your tongue continuously and prophecy continuously on this forum as you type away at your computer. You my friend a prophet and sometimes your words are good.
Soverign Grace
Well-Known Member
I too agree that there are some ministers who are not truly reborn and are tools of the evil one.
I like your posts; both you and Farouk have gentle spirits and it comes through.
Soverign Grace
Well-Known Member
We attended a Pentecostal church for a time. I did not like the outbursts, the speaking in tongues in public, and rolling in the aisles. I felt that it was emotionalism and not the calm and reasoned teaching of Scripture. A visiting pastor named "Billy Something" (I think he meant to be the next Billy Graham. He was preaching and walked over and shouted "There's HOMOSEXIALITY HERE! I SENSE IT! SOMEBODY HERE IS PRACTICING HOMOSEXIALITY!" (he pronounced it that way). All the churchgoers sat in the pews with their heads down while he kept demanding to know who was practicing it.
That really showed me that was NOT of God. God doesn't work that way and the pastor looked like a fool. That and the emotionalism were what turned me off. I did not sense God in what they were doing. In fact I've been reading "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn Lewis and she talks about it. She is difficult to follow with the way she writes; at least for me, but she speaks truth.
I still don't know about tongues - only God can really answer that in His time and way.
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The world in this case is the world of each person of flesh. This is the world that Jesus overcame in his own body of flesh [John 16:33]. He did not overcome planet Earth. Each of us have been given that opportunity and means to also overcome the world of our own flesh and its fleshly ways as per:
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16
We need the power of God in us through the Holy Ghost in order to be able to overcome as Jesus overcome. This is necessary to make it to the end of our course with Him:
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
The Revelation is NOT a revelation to you or to me until it has been revealed to us. We were only born naturally about 2000 years after that Book was written. The process of revelation to us began [if it did begin] only once we had received the Holy Ghost so as to receive the interpretation:
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
My friend, during my daily morning prayer sessions with God I always speak in tongues and He does edify me as I get into the Spirit. Say what you will but you cannot deny my testimony and be pleasing to God. What does edification mean?
Study scripture on the matter and pray for guidance. During my Pentecostal years I didn't see a match between my experience and scripture. Namely having to learn and practice something that was spontaneous and came unexpectedly in the first century. And then wondering why the whole church didn't do this sort of thing if it was from God. The capstone however was the superiority complex the Charismatics had while poking fun at the church for being left in the dust..so to speak. But time and study liberated me from that whole scene so I try to do the same for others still trapped in that mindset.
How do you know your flesh isn't finding release the same way others do cussing? Or screaming? "Tongues" today are of the flesh and not of the Holy Spirit by any stretch.
One has already come(In the flesh) and overthrown your argument(doctrine) and yet you know Him not. Why not go to Him in humility and humbleness, for He has salve for your eyes so that you might finally see.
Have you tried to get a baby who only babbles to explain his meaning to you? Later on most babies will get to the point where they can. The problem which you and others identify in tongues talkers is that too many are still babies spiritually whether because they are new converts or lazy old converts. What does Jesus say?
"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5
All of us should be sheep but some so called sheep may really be goats!
Originally, the tongues speaker was edified before they interpreted. They understood what they were saying and were edified because of it according to Paul. Interpretation explained to others so they could understand and become edified too. This proves today's tongues are of the flesh and not of the Holy Spirit.
Because like Thomas some people need the evidence of their natural senses before they are willing to step out in faith. God uses things sometimes considered foolish by men wise only in their own flesh but nonetheless He accomplishes His purpose. Our answers ultimately should not lie in conclusions drawn what our natural senses [vision, hearing, smelling, tasting & touching] perceive not in the proper application of the scientific method to a problem. That was Thomas' trouble. You seem to be walking along the same street.
You hit the nail on the head. People demand sensory evidence before the flesh can believe. And many believe only at this level. Faith however is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and sensory evidence actually works against it.
The gifts in a person end for that person when his work is finished. Jesus said from the cross as he died, "It is finished" but that was His work. Our work continues... Many people undoubtedly in the many supposedly Christian churches of today are NOT doing the work of God as His right hand, so they work rather as His left hand, but the result of that is seen in the goats. There are goats in all of them, but likely there are also a few sheep in all of them be they Pentecostal or Methodist or Baptist or Catholic or other...
The gifts ended when they finished their purpose, providing the first words of the New Covenant. When written and collected, the complete replaced the fragments with what we call scripture.
It may "prove" it to you, but don't let your head swell up too much with that apparent success which really isn't. I am slow to state what I know as opposed to what I believe, but I have to say my gift of tongues received back in 1976 is not of the flesh but of God. I could give you details but you would not believe them anyway. That is your loss as you have limited God. The Israelites did that and most definitely paid a high price for it.
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