Perfection In Christ

[Episkopos]

Most believers think that Jesus was perfect in His life on earth. By perfect I don't mean mature. Jesus was immature as a child...but always perfect.
Perfection is the image of God in any given situation. We could say it was a state of being or even a place. It is walking in a heavenly place...in the presence of He who alone is perfect.

Now the Cathars had a classification of believers called "the perfect". They were on to something but the problem is that they changed an adjective into a noun. We, as humans always take things too far.

We are never "the perfect" (noun)...but we can be perfect (adjective) by abiding in He who is our perfection.

Now many people have difficulty with anything that isn't sinful. These have no experience of this abiding in Christ...although they may have had encounters with God. In fact it is when we come into a witness of the divine that we feel the most sinful. But this is not God acting on us....

Have we not been fully cleansed by the blood of Christ? Is it a partial cleansing? Are we unwashable?

God's work is to make us holy as He is holy. I say holy as an adjective. But we can only be holy by entering into One who is holy ...Jesus Christ. He is our holiness.

When we abide in Christ we take on His life, His faith, His grace, His perfection.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus commands us and compels us to "Be perfect (teleos)." (Mat. 5:48)His resurrection ensures that we have been given the grace to obey and conform to His will that we do just that very thing.

But there are many unbelievers in the ranks of they who say they are believers. Many believe for a personal benefit...like salvation without faith...without truth...without holiness. But these same people will claim to be "holy" sinners....or "born again" sinners. No hint of actual grace or spiritual birth.

These then know nothing of the eternal life in Christ.

Perfection is to walk as Jesus walked...without any taint of sin. We can walk this way from the first moment of a new spiritual birth IN Christ. This is not a maturity thing...but a purity afforded by the blood of Jesus. His life is in His blood.

If we are not walking in His life...then we are not "under the blood." We are not yet under grace. Many people who claim to be under grace are in fact still under the law practically speaking. They get stuck half-way...and remain there. They are only half-converted. There is no power over sin in an "almost there" scenario. Although we do sin less as we get closer to God. But that is not being "perfect" as He is perfect.

Jesus spoke of this perfection in regards to forsaking everything in this life to follow Him...

Mat. 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect (teleos), go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

The heavenly walk is that of teleos...perfection. The supernatural walk of abiding in Christ.

In the OT a man could be tamim...innocent of evil....and shalem...having an intimate knowledge of God. But even then there was no supernatural power in the walk itself. One could have clean hands and a pure heart...and no one more than John the Baptist....as Jesus said.

But the least in the perfect walk is greater than the greatest in the consecrated life that is in the natural walk. It is like saying the least thing in the supernatural realm is greater than the greatest thing in the natural realm. John the Baptist was under the law....and did quite well. But perfection lies only under grace.

 

[Episkopos]

Our calling is to bear a holy fruit...a perfect kind of fruit....an eternal fruit. They who do so will receive a reward for their faith. Faith pleases God. And it does take faith to enter into the heavenly realm where such fruit is produced.

1 Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (teleos): yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The Christian walk is about a present salvation and a future glory. There is no "getting saved" as a status. There is only an adjective that describes a person who walks in the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead.

The cares of this world distract us from persevering in seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness into that perfect walk.

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

This is speaking to the lack of an actual eternal walk in an actual eternal life that produces an eternal kind of fruit.

Phil. 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect (teleos), be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Again Paul was not speaking of spiritual maturity but rather they who walked in the perfection of Christ. A person can be quite immature and still be walking in the Spirit. Walking in the heavenly realm of the Spirit is a gift of God for they who ask, seek and knock.

 

[Episkopos]

People speak much of maturity...but very little of purity. I want to ask...maturity in what?

We can get used to an occasional sin...a continued weakness..a fragility of faith. Some would say that maturity is just settling in on less than a faithful life. A new believer that is on fire for the Lord is soon quenched by the more realistic and "mature" brethren.

Too often a cynicism and a deep seated unbelief accompany our advancement into what for us appears as a maturity of sorts.

But we are to be mature IN purity. We need to be complete IN perfection. Perfection is to be our starting point...not some impossible dream.

But perfection comes at a cost. His yoke is easy...but getting there requires a full forsaking of all we have and are. We need to put ourselves on the altar before God...offering our lives to Him to do with as He pleases.

If He is pleased with that offering...He gifts us with His Spirit. In that state we walk where He walks....and as He walks.

It is one thing to obtain this eternal kind of life...and quite another to remain there for any length of time. THAT takes maturity. But it is a maturity IN the pure perfection of Christ. That is the real maturity in Christ.

But this standard is lacking in the modern churches. We are going the other way...towards more and more compromise with the world.

We need a revival of His perfection in the church. We need a revival of truth and grace.
People will have great difficulty with Christ being perfect in them...or they being perfect in Him. God is looking for those who will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. For real.

 

[faithfulness]

God's work is to make us holy as He is holy. I say holy as an adjective. But we can only be holy by entering into One who is holy ...Jesus Christ. He is our holiness.

When we abide in Christ we take on His life, His faith, His grace, His perfection.

I cannot just click 'like' to this most important subject and go my merry way. At the risk of raising eyebrows: Among my experiences (and not a warm imagination), I've experienced Faith (as a divine entity) take my will and 'plunge' me INTO Him (His will). It was glorious, experiencing being IN HIM, but not longlasting. I've had to daily reckon self dead/denying my will/way, a living sacrifice alive unto Him, turning my heart'single eye, to Him, etc.
So, when I had the audacity to believe that I received @ the Throne of His Grace for His full measure, for the gift of His Holiness to walk in His Life, as He walked in the here and now; to be a saint, willing to pay/give mine all for His all, it was a tall order, but, to whomsoever will...
Confession of Faith: It is mine. He is mine. I am His.
Your comments are more than welcome...

 

[101G]

Galatians 2:20

PICJAG.

 

[Waiting on him]

Galatians 2:20

PICJAG.

Hebrews 11:1 KJV
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

I’m guessing you guys have no further need for faith, you seem to have elevated yourselves to a state where you are as god?

 

[Episkopos]

I cannot just click 'like' to this most important subject and go my merry way. At the risk of raising eyebrows: Among my experiences (and not a warm imagination), I've experienced Faith (as a divine entity) take my will and 'plunge' me INTO Him (His will). It was glorious, experiencing being IN HIM, but not longlasting. I've had to daily reckon self dead/denying my will/way, a living sacrifice alive unto Him, turning my heart'single eye, to Him, etc.
So, when I had the audacity to believe that I received @ the Throne of His Grace for His full measure, for the gift of His Holiness to walk in His Life, as He walked in the here and now; to be a saint, willing to pay/give mine all for His all, it was a tall order, but, to whomsoever will...
Confession of Faith: It is mine. He is mine. I am His.
Your comments are more than welcome...

Amen! Our faith takes us to His faith which takes us to Him. Paul calls this a mystery. The mystery of being in Him.

It is far. Especially we that live in the world today.

Let patience have it's work in us. Persevering....never wavering. Waiting on the Lord.

Bless you sister.

 

[Episkopos]

I’m guessing you guys have no further need for faith, you seem to have elevated yourselves to a state where you are as god?

This is not about people but about Jesus Christ. It is too human to focus on other people or ourselves. That's what keeps us bound up in this world. A living faith leaps into His presence. But we need His help even in this.

To walk without seeing (which is by our faith) is still a good thing. And necessary. We all need to walk this way to learn to be patient, to develop our character, and to develop faith.

I know that my own faith has become more solid after every trial as well as every visitation and revelation of the Lord.

In the end we will be judged by our fruit...of what kind it is.

As long as we have been faithful with what we have been given...we'll do ok.

But there is another level to the walk in Christ. All who believe are invited to that fellowship...that is to walk in the light as He is in the light. But we are at a time where people reject sound doctrine. Because of unbelief...many become hostile to the high calling in Christ. This ought not to be. And this is a charge against those who judge but unrighteously.

 

[Episkopos]

Hebrews 11:1 KJV
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Tecarta Bible

From faith to faith. Blessed is he that believes and has not seen. But also "blessed is he that is not offended in Me."

It isn't wise to pit what is good against what is perfect. Humility tells us that God's will is what is important not the ruffled pride of they who are not the center of attention. Christ is at the center...not people.

The wise Phoenician lady was happy to receive the crumbs of a meal meant for others. But where is that wisdom in today's world? She received what she asked for.

I believe that ONLY people with that kind of humility will receive of the higher things of God.

God indeed gives grace to the humble.

 

[Episkopos]

Heb. 7:19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

We tend to see the law as something evil. But the law is holy. Do we hate what is holy?

The problem with the law and knowing the law is that it makes US attempt to be holy in our own strength. That is not possible for us.

Are we who under grace yet subject to the law? Yes. It is ONLY they who are under grace who are subject to the law of God.

Does that sound confusing?

They who are under the law cannot be subject to the law of God...because it is too high for them. The law of God is holiness. Sinners are not subject to holiness. But they who are under grace are responsible to be holy. We will be judged against the perfect standard of Christ who claim to be in Christ.

So many people have it exactly backwards. These think that because they are under grace they are LESS responsible towards holiness. But they who are under grace are so in order to BE holy...and no other reason.


The OT is based on righteousness. But the NT is based on holiness. The good becomes the perfect in Him who knew no sin.

 

[ScottA]

Most believers think that Jesus was perfect in His life on earth. By perfect I don't mean mature. Jesus was immature as a child...but always perfect.
Perfection is the image of God in any given situation. We could say it was a state of being or even a place. It is walking in a heavenly place...in the presence of He who alone is perfect.

Now the Cathars had a classification of believers called "the perfect". They were on to something but the problem is that they changed an adjective into a noun. We, as humans always take things too far.

We are never "the perfect" (noun)...but we can be perfect (adjective) by abiding in He who is our perfection.

Now many people have difficulty with anything that isn't sinful. These have no experience of this abiding in Christ...although they may have had encounters with God. In fact it is when we come into a witness of the divine that we feel the most sinful. But this is not God acting on us....

Have we not been fully cleansed by the blood of Christ? Is it a partial cleansing? Are we unwashable?

God's work is to make us holy as He is holy. I say holy as an adjective. But we can only be holy by entering into One who is holy ...Jesus Christ. He is our holiness.

When we abide in Christ we take on His life, His faith, His grace, His perfection.

Indeed!

There are many misunderstandings about being "in Christ" and still having our own identity, and just when our old identity is finished and our new identity is complete.

This was elaborated somewhat by Paul in his use of the term, "those who are alive and remain." But first, it is important not to be confused about the complete and finished work of Christ in us. Or to think that just because we have the promise that "He who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it", that it is a blanket statement to all. It is not, and therefore, Paul elaborates elsewhere, to say that we come, "each in his own order." And what encouragement are we to those who come after, if our testimony is only in part and focused on what could be considered unfinished in us, but is not according to the Spirit? If we continue to see our own flesh sin, it is not a sign that Christ has not finished His work in us. It is a sign that He has left some "alive and remaining" in the fallen world and in the flesh which is indeed, dead already. That line of transition is clear to God, if not clear to men living within the prism between life and death. But, no, in God's reality, there is no time in between...only a god-given grace, which is not time, but rather "silence in heaven" (for about a half an hour). Which things, if we do not fully understand, we will. Meanwhile, trust in the Word of God which declares these things even in past tense, that they should be understood in truth by those "who have an ear to hear what the spirit says to the churches." Which, in spite of the belief of many, is not given to all who have the Holy Spirit in the same order or measure, who's gifts are something other.

Thus, that appearance of sin by the old man of flesh who now carries the new man while remaining in the world in the service of God and Christ, is not and image of the present, but a miracle of God for the humble works required of the present day. "This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it."

 

[CoreIssue]

Amen! Our faith takes us to His faith which takes us to Him. Paul calls this a mystery. The mystery of being in Him.

It is far. Especially we that live in the world today.

Let patience have it's work in us. Persevering....never wavering. Waiting on the Lord.

Bless you sister.

The Bible never said Christ has faith that we much partak in.

It says we must have faith in and that faith saves us.

You are inventing things again.

 

[CoreIssue]

Indeed!

There are many misunderstandings about being "in Christ" and still having our own identity, and just when our old identity is finished and our new identity is complete.

This was elaborated somewhat by Paul in his use of the term, "those who are alive and remain." But first, it is important not to be confused about the complete and finished work of Christ in us. Or to think that just because we have the promise that "He who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it", that it is a blanket statement to all. It is not, and therefore, Paul elaborates elsewhere, to say that we come, "each in his own order." And what encouragement are we to those who come after, if our testimony is only in part and focused on what could be considered unfinished in us, but is not according to the Spirit? If we continue to see our own flesh sin, it is not a sign that Christ has not finished His work in us. It is a sign that He has left some "alive and remaining" in the fallen world and in the flesh which is indeed, dead already. That line of transition is clear to God, if not clear to men living within the prism between life and death. But, no, in God's reality, there is no time in between...only a god-given grace, which is not time, but rather "silence in heaven" (for about a half an hour). Which things, if we do not fully understand, we will. Meanwhile, trust in the Word of God which declares these things even in past tense, that they should be understood in truth by those "who have an ear to hear what the spirit says to the churches." Which, in spite of the belief of many, is not given to all who have the Holy Spirit in the same order or measure, who's gifts are something other.

Thus, that appearance of sin by the old man of flesh who now carries the new man while remaining in the world in the service of God and Christ, is not and image of the present, but a miracle of God for the humble works required of the present day. "This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it."

The King James version erroneously says the faith of Christ.

The actual translation is faith in Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

I’m guessing you guys have no further need for faith, you seem to have elevated yourselves to a state where you are as god?

I have noted many times they both elevate themselves to being apostles and prophets.

They both add to the Bible.

They both claim to cite the Bible but never post a verse.

 

[Waiting on him]

I have noted many times they both elevate themselves to being apostles and prophets.

They both add to the Bible.

They both claim to cite the Bible but never post a verse.

I liked the older avatar of Peter Pan with the purple haze around him.

 

[Waiting on him]

Philippians 2:3-4 KJV
[3] Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. [4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.


Tecarta BibleReality check time, this ain’t never never land

 

[CoreIssue]

But some still think of themselves so highly they think such things do not apply to them.

 

[ScottA]

The King James version erroneously says the faith of Christ.

The actual translation is faith in Christ.

It has barely been a day since you accused me of erroneously speaking for God. Now it is okay for you to speak for God and decide just how His word will not return void?

You have no credibility to say such a thing.