BEFORE OR AFTER THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD

[Doug]

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


God purposed to save the believing remnant of Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Those that dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the book of life are unbelieving Jews as can be seen in the verse below; they will worship the dragon and the beast.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In the verse above, some are confused and interpret it as saying that "from the foundation of the world" applies to those whose names are not written in the book of life as it does in Revelation 17:8; however it is Jesus that is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world that is the correct reading.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God purposed to save the body of Christ by the gospel of Christ, from before the foundation of the world; to bless us in heavenly places, to be holy and blameless before him in love.

Therefore, seeing that there is a difference between before and from, we can determine that God has made a distinction between believing Israel and the church, the body of Christ. One is to have determined to save (by the gospel of the grace of God) the body of Christ before the foundation of the world to a position in heavenly places; the other is to save the remnant of Israel (by the gospel of the kingdom) to enter the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth, from the foundation of the world.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


The Father loved Christ; and by his unmeasurable grace and kindness, we as being in Christ and members of his body, loved us before the foundation of the world.

 

[ScottA]

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


God purposed to save the believing remnant of Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Those that dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the book of life are unbelieving Jews as can be seen in the verse below; they will worship the dragon and the beast.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In the verse above, some are confused and interpret it as saying that "from the foundation of the world" applies to those whose names are not written in the book of life as it does in Revelation 17:8; however it is Jesus that is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world that is the correct reading.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God purposed to save the body of Christ by the gospel of Christ, from before the foundation of the world; to bless us in heavenly places, to be holy and blameless before him in love.

Therefore, seeing that there is a difference between before and from, we can determine that God has made a distinction between believing Israel and the church, the body of Christ. One is to have determined to save (by the gospel of the grace of God) the body of Christ before the foundation of the world to a position in heavenly places; the other is to save the remnant of Israel (by the gospel of the kingdom) to enter the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth, from the foundation of the world.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


The Father loved Christ; and by his unmeasurable grace and kindness, we as being in Christ and members of his body, loved us before the foundation of the world.

Is there a question in there?

 

[Enoch111]

God purposed to save the believing remnant of Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth from the foundation of the world.

1. That Scripture was a reference to "the nations" -- NOT Israel
2. You omitted all the redeemed Gentiles within the Church.

So my suggestion would be for you to take some time to fully grasp the meaning of "the Church" (the Body of Christ).

Is there a question in there?

Yes. The question is "How do I (Doug) interpret Bible truth when I have not studied the Bible properly?"

 

[Jon Mathews]

... One is to have determined to save (by the gospel of the grace of God) the body of Christ before the foundation of the world to a position in heavenly places; the other is to save the remnant of Israel (by the gospel of the kingdom) to enter the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth, from the foundation of the world....

You're trying to make 2 Gospels out of 1. The Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of the Grace of God are the same Gospel.... the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If there are 2 Gospels, there are also 2 Faiths of believing those Gospels. But we know the Spirit expressly says there is only "One Faith". That is because there is only 1 Gospel to believe in. This same One Faith in the one Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way for both Jew and Gentile (all mankind) to be saved.

 

[Doug]

Is there a question in there?

Hello
No question... just showing the importance of recognizing subtle usage of words for differentiation in scripture.

 

[Doug]

1. That Scripture was a reference to "the nations" -- NOT Israel
2. You omitted all the redeemed Gentiles within the Church.

So my suggestion would be for you to take some time to fully grasp the meaning of "the Church" (the Body of Christ).

Yes. The question is "How do I (Doug) interpret Bible truth when I have not studied the Bible properly?"

Hello
The nations are indeed in view in this verse, however, so is the kingdom of heaven in this chapter (Mathew 25:1 Matthew 25:14). These nations were entering the Davidic kingdom along with the remnant of Israel.
The point is the kingdom was prepared FROM the foundation of the world.

 

[ScottA]

Hello
No question... just showing the importance of recognizing subtle usage of words for differentiation in scripture.

I guess I am not getting the point you are trying to make. Would you mind paraphrasing the point?

 

[Doug]

I guess I am not getting the point you are trying to make. Would you mind paraphrasing the point?

Hello
It can be seen by comparing verses (Matthew 25:34 and Ephesians 1:4) in regard to Israel's kingdom and the body of Christ that they aren't the same because their description is different in regard to being from or after the foundation of the world.

 

[ScottA]

Hello
It can be seen by comparing verses (Matthew 25:34 and Ephesians 1:4) in regard to Israel's kingdom and the body of Christ that they aren't the same because their description is different in regard to being from or after the foundation of the world.

Aaah!

Well, it is good to see that you have perceived this difference.

Sorry if I missed it...but did you offer an explanation as to why they are different, or noted differently?

 

[Doug]

Aaah!

Well, it is good to see that you have perceived this difference.

Sorry if I missed it...but did you offer an explanation as to why they are different, or noted differently?

Hello
To condense the differences I would say that Israel was purposed to reconcile the earth to God and the body of Christ reconcile the heavenly places and by the church to display God's wisdom

 

[Doug]

You're trying to make 2 Gospels out of 1. The Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of the Grace of God are the same Gospel.... the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If there are 2 Gospels, there are also 2 Faiths of believing those Gospels. But we know the Spirit expressly says there is only "One Faith". That is because there is only 1 Gospel to believe in. This same One Faith in the one Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way for both Jew and Gentile (all mankind) to be saved.

Hello
There are in fact more than just two gospels.
The gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom was that the promised Davidic kingdom on earth was at hand (Matthew 3:2 Matthew 4:17).
The one faith is to believe on Jesus.
The Jew and Gentile are saved by believing the gospel in this dispensation as revealed to Paul. It was not so before Paul. Gentiles were strangers from the covenants had to come to God through Israel.

 

[101G]

Hello
There are in fact more than just two gospels.
The gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom was that the promised Davidic kingdom on earth was at hand (Matthew 3:2 Matthew 4:17).
The one faith is to believe on Jesus.
The Jew and Gentile are saved by believing the gospel in this dispensation as revealed to Paul. It was not so before Paul. Gentiles were strangers from the covenants had to come to God through Israel.

Addressing the OP, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Isaiah 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.Isaiah 11:11 "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea".

this gathering started on the day of Pentecost and is in progress now.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

Hello
To condense the differences I would say that Israel was purposed to reconcile the earth to God and the body of Christ reconcile the heavenly places and by the church to display God's wisdom

Okay...

The two differences, whether you call them two different gospels or something else, they are indeed different. But not different in every respect, certainly not so different as to be considered two and separate. If one makes a journey, is his going out separate from his return or two journeys, for all the detailed differences that could be noted? No, because both are part of the one journey. So then, what is different? In the case of one going out and returning, the difference is in direction and experience. And that is our answer here also, except that it is the journey of One, Jesus Christ. History, is His story. Wherein He goes out in the natural coming as a man in whom is every man beginning with Adam (the First), and then returns in the spirit with the dead and the living in the Last Adam.

As such, your observance of what would appear to be two different gospels, which are, and yet are not, simply marks the apex dividing the before-and-after of all that is in Christ, the only begotten of the Father. He is One.

 

[Doug]

Addressing the OP, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Isaiah 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.Isaiah 11:11 "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea".

this gathering started on the day of Pentecost and is in progress now.

PICJAG.

Hello
I have not studied this out but, I would not discount it readily because the kingdom was offered at the time of Pentecost.