Please explain this.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
I too tend to believe that it will be eternal...
ok so right there is the pit the she has dug for others, you were asking about the other day? And just for you i will say that you should be able to discern now where Christ is revealed, and thus where/how you should be applying the Revelation of Christ, imo. Let the blind do the eschatology thingy, and you go find The Pearl imo, ok? Read our (aborted) "Foundations" thread yet? Love you guys ok, have a nice day
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Of the more than 1,000 works brought forward for inclusion in the canon, only 27 were selected and only an additional four others were ever under serious consideration: 1) The Shepherd of Hermas; 2) 1 Clement; 3) The Epistle of Barnabas; and 4) The Didache. They were ultimately rejected because of the uncertainty of their inspiration.

The gospels and epistles were simply added to the reading of the Tanakh (the "Law and the Prophets and the Psalms") and were recognized as being inspired by the Holy Spirit immediately--thus, Scripture. Eventually, as the Holy Spirit added to them, the early Jewish-Christians recognized the need for them to have their own section (just as the Torah was one section and the Prophets and Psalms were in sections in the Tanakh). The New Testament is properly grouped with the Old Testament--as indeed it is in the Holy Bible.

Yes. You must remember that Jewish-Christians were in danger of extreme punishment (ex. Stephen's execution) here on earth and even in the afterlife, were they to lie about something so important. If they did not truly believe that God spoke through them, by the Holy Spirit, why would they have risked their lives? Before they would go out on that limb, they must have very strongly believed that they were well-representing Jesus and His ministry--that He was, in fact, God in human flesh. They also had the assistance of the abiding and indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Others also recognized that the Holy Spirit spoke through those closest to Jesus in life.

He was very wrong to deny Jesus because of his cowardice--even in spite of Jesus' warnings that he would. Why do you think that Peter wept bitterly at the last crowing of the rooster? The Apostle Paul tells of the hypocrisy incident in Galatians 2:11-13. It was another case of cowardice on Peter's part. But he was forgiven and strengthened to face his own martyrdom. By the way, foolishness and cowardice are condemned in the New Testament. (Mark 7:22 and Revelation 21:8 respectively).

No, they did not--I don't care what you have been told. The New Testament was written right along with the founding of the Church--within a few decades after the Resurrection. How do you think that the "early fathers" were able to quote so extensively and well from the New Testament writings, unless it was because they already had them in their possession? It has been said that if even our New Testaments were destroyed, we could piece them back together from the quotations in the writings of the early Christian writers.

To the contrary, even Mary would be offended, as it is blasphemous--and she was a devout Jewish (and then, Jewish-Christian) woman.

Ah--then I'm guessing that you are either evangelical Episcopalian or conservative Lutheran. Of those two, I would think the latter rather than the former. Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans are being courted by the leadership of the RCC--who are quite apostate of course. These are perilous times.
There's too much here and I can't go thru this on a Sunday.
If you remind me tomorrow,,,,I DO want to reply to it.
Please remind me.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I believe in Eternal Security because I am quite certain that is what the Bible teaches. Even if one who has eternal life falls into sin, he/she still has eternal life--otherwise we would ALL be doomed to pop in and out of eternal life--who among us is without any sin at all? It is a gift and we know that God's gifts are irrevocable. Those who truly belong to Christ will want to obey His every command and suggestion but we fail because we are simply not as holy as He was when He walked the earth. He told us to even refrain from evil thoughts which pollute us--do we?

Of course I agree with everything you've stated
EXCEPT re eternal security.

The N.T. is chock full of verses that show we have conditional eternal security.
It's conditional on being IN CHRIST. We have to NOT LEAVE CHRIST.
If we are IN CHRIST we are saved...if we are NOT IN CHRIST, we are not saved.
No matter WHEN that may happen.
Just read John 15:1-6 and tell me it doesn't mean that we can be removed from the vine and gathered and done away with.

No, I do not believe it is our doctrine that saves us. Eternal life comes as a result of believing God and in Jesus as His only begotten Son. Believing lies does not "un-save" us but it certainly hampers our walk with the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of Truth. It is impossible to lose one's soul but believing lies is certainly quite damaging to the peace and comfort of the soul in this life and can destroy our testimony. I once knew a Christian man who committed suicide because he said, in the note that he left, that he was undoubtedly going to hell because he could never be good enough to please God. Since he was miserable in this life (he struggled with alcoholism and depression), he figured he might as well "get it over with". As horrifying as that is, I believe that is where teaching that one can lose one's eternal life because of disobedience, can lead.
Agreed on all, again, except for eternal salvation.
Many don't understand God's love ... no one is "good enough" for God.
Because persons misunderstand God is no reason to build a theology around THEIR misunderstandings.

I had a priest I know tell me some years ago that persons that commit suicide are doomed. By the time I got thru with him, he had to agree with me and told me I was right. I told him I don't care to hear the magesterium version but the CORRECT VERSION of our faith.

Anyway, depression makes persons understand things in different and incorrect ways.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Indeed, for Him to cause us to walk in His statutes and in His judgments, we must first generally surrender to Him doing that work in us.

I think that 1 John 2:17 also applies to this and the next post in this thread.
That sounds like double talk to me.

You repeat that God does indeed CAUSE us to walk in His ways...
and then you agree with me that we have to agree.

So which is it?
Does God CAUSE us to walk in His ways or not?

1 John 2:17 what does this have to do with our convo?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Which verse speaks of a mental assent to the tenets of the gospel (mere mental assent)...a shallow, nominal, or lukewarm faith.

John 6:47, on the other hand (faith which brings everlasting life; the nature of it is that it will never end), speaks of a heart faith (Romans 10:10) that is unto righteousness and enduring to the end (Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13).
I'm not debating JESUS.
Jesus said in Luke 8:13 that the person BELIEVED FOR A WHILE,,,
and then they FELL AWAY.

WHAT did they FALL AWAY from?


John 6:47
He WHO BELIEVES has eternal life.

Right. HE WHO BELIEVES......present tense.
IF you STOP believing, you lose your eternal life.

Do you mean to tell me that a NON-BELIEVER could go to heaven?

And how about exegeting MY verses for a change?
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”


And what did Jesus mean here:
John 8:51
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”


IF anyone KEEPS Jesus' WORD, he shall never see death.

IF is a conditional word. So what happens IF WE DO NOT keep His word?
Shall we see death?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and brakelite

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
ok so right there is the pit the she has dug for others, you were asking about the other day? And just for you i will say that you should be able to discern now where Christ is revealed, and thus where/how you should be applying the Revelation of Christ, imo. Let the blind do the eschatology thingy, and you go find The Pearl imo, ok? Read our (aborted) "Foundations" thread yet? Love you guys ok, have a nice day
No. I haven't.
Send me the link please.

I don't know the value of talking about eschatology,,,but it's nice to know what one believes. If it come up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
he who seeks to save his soul will lose it
if you dig a pit for others, you will end up in it yourself
Did I dig that pit?
The L of F pit?
I don't even like to talk about the hot place.
Do you see me talking about it, except when I'm forced to.
OTOH,,,I've been told many times I'm not saved and am headed straight there.
Because my beliefs are different than the person who so condemns me.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Yeah. I believe in one day at a time.
Plus, if there are so many different beliefs about the end...
how should WE know which one is right?
ha, amen, he who says he knows, does not, right? Personally i am quite comfy now with no one knows where they go when they die, which btw works on two, both levels, beautiful are the feet an' all that, and...i forgot the other thing, sorry. No, wait, you and your sons will be here with me ya that one, and i guess we do not yet know what we will become too?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
ha, amen, he who says he knows, does not, right? Personally i am quite comfy now with no one knows where they go when they die, which btw works on two, both levels, beautiful are the feet an' all that, and...i forgot the other thing, sorry. No, wait, you and your sons will be here with me ya that one, and i guess we do not yet know what we will become too?
Let me say this.
The little I know...makes me realize HOW MUCH I do NOT know.
THIS I KNOW FOR SURE!
LOL

As to after death....
I wanted to start a thread on this some time ago...
But you'd have to be a part of it.

I know a priest that believes in annihalism.
Those saved go to be with God.
Those lost just disappear into nothingness.
Sounds better than the hot place, don't it?
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Did I dig that pit?
The L of F pit?
I don't even like to talk about the hot place.
Do you see me talking about it, except when I'm forced to.
OTOH,,,I've been told many times I'm not saved and am headed straight there.
Because my beliefs are different than the person who so condemns me.
so then, dunno if you have ever directly told someone else that, but see the pit that was dug for you, in this case. And regardless of if you ever have directly told someone that before or not, if you have accepted that you might go up to heaven after you have died, no one has ever gone up to heaven, then by def you have also accepted that some other people must be going to hell, yeh?

he who seeks to save his soul will lose it
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Let me say this.
The little I know...makes me realize HOW MUCH I do NOT know.
THIS I KNOW FOR SURE!
LOL

As to after death....
I wanted to start a thread on this some time ago...
But you'd have to be a part of it.

I know a priest that believes in annihalism.
Those saved go to be with God.
Those lost just disappear into nothingness.
Sounds better than the hot place, don't it?
ah, opinions, i really have none tbh. Sure, sounds way more tickly, yes
no one has ever gone up to heaven
you and your sons will be here with me

what would your priest say about these i wonder.
ps, imo catholic priests can be some of the best insight going, how that comes to be from the RCC though i simply cannot fathom. How bout this pope, huh? Love the guy!