Religious Facade Christianity

[stunnedbygrace]

Or maybe the snares are there only for the natural mind of man and can only be avoided by the Spirit in him...

The words are spirit. To see them by the letter, the literal meaning, doesn't avail a man.

 

[Episkopos]

Or maybe the snares are there only for the natural mind of man and can only be avoided by the Spirit in him...

The words are spirit. To see them by the letter, the literal meaning, doesn't avail a man.

Yes, a trap for the carnal man who THINKS he has understood them. The hypocrites among us.

 

[Executioner]

"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"

It is written God cannot be tempted with evil.

And this morning the Lord God informed me that not only did
He turn your children over to me but also all their offspring.

 

[Episkopos]

I know that in the US of A, battle reenactments are very popular. I myself was a re-enactor for a number of years going to all the forts of that period...(1744-1760) What the Americans call "the French and Indian war."

Now some people get carried away with this form of exercise and some downright crazy over it. I got out of it because of the political mess and it was time as the Lord led me out. But I observed a lot of things by doing this.

Now participating in a battle...say of Gettysburg...does not mean you were actually IN the battle historically. Although sometimes it may FEEL that way. Sometimes I could swear I was going back in history...even just for a few moments. Quite the rush...

A few people might get deluded into thinking they were actual veterans of these re-enactment battles by allowing their minds to be overcome by the realism in the battle sequences. The sights, the sounds, the smells...it all seems quite real at times. Even an ex-president of the US once related a war story as if he had actually been a bomber pilot in WW2. He was confusing a movie role he had once acted in with reality. So this happens. And the more nebulous or spiritual the undertaking the more is the tendency to mix up truth for supposition.

And where we see this taking place the most is in church. People tend to lose their logical minds and all reason in order to participate in church. Some churches put on such a show that it almost seems real. Hence the difficulty in telling the difference between what is real and what is just playing church.

So many church services are like re-enactments. Even our breaking bread (communion) is like a re-enactment of sorts. So there is a real possibility of confusing a symbolic thing for having done the real thing.

How can you tell the difference between a real battle and a re-enactment? Just ask the dress-up soldiers how scared they were the night before the battle. Re-enactors have no fear at all...they may even be looking forward to the fun involved.

But not so the real soldiers in a real battle. Those tremble and shake with fear. Many have wet themselves or worse..visibly shaking...even panicky before a battle.

And that is how you can tell who has been with God compared to those who are just make-believing.

Those who know the Lord tremble in fear. The re-enactors don't understand why there should be any fear...after all, all the "fallen ones" get back up and party after the battle. But not so after a real battle.

The lack of the fear of the Lord means these have not understood that they could die or be very grievously wounded...eternally so..for these all is "peace and safety."

 

[Episkopos]

It is written God cannot be tempted with evil.

And this morning the Lord God informed me that not only did
He turn your children over to me but also all their offspring.

Paleese...

 

[marks]

Isn't that what I said? "We do not know what it meant to them more than whatever we are able to read in the scriptures.".
You read it in the scriptures and then drew a conclusion, did you not? I have seen and heard your conclusion before, but even if I might come to the same conclusion, I am not their judge any more than you. Their time is finished and they are already judged. Ours is not yet... not while we still have time and have not made ourselves reprobate before God.

Hi amadeus,

Certainly we are not speaking of judging others, are we? This was a discussion in understanding what God has done for us, and to not make it into anything it's not.

There is a strong push to make the old and new covenants the same, and I believe it to be a serious mistake to try to do so.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi amadeus,

Certainly we are not speaking of judging others, are we? This was a discussion in understanding what God has done for us, and to not make it into anything it's not.

There is a strong push to make the old and new covenants the same, and I believe it to be a serious mistake to try to do so.

Much love!

Oh...did you think that my not being able to say , dogmatically, that men in the OT never had the Holy Spirit, meant I was trying to say the old and new covenants were the same? Just because someone doesn't know and so cannot make a dogmatic statement regarding some particular thing, it does not mean they are therefore making some hidden statement. It just means they don't know.

The only evidences I have that some men had the Holy Spirit are the things they did by faith and the fact that Jesus believed a teacher of Israel should understand that a man must be born again from above.

Considering these two things, I can't say men never had the Holy Spirit in the OT. in fact, some had the Holy Spirit and then lost the Holy Spirit from what I read...

 

[marks]

Oh...did you think that my not being able to say , dogmatically, that men in the OT never had the Holy Spirit,

Hi SBG,

If you recall, my original questions was,

So you are saying then that the Isrealites who passed through the Red Sea were born again in the NT sense?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I just don't believe these traps were put there on purpose.
Jesus would have liked for everyone to be saved.
Maybe we could say that the snares are there naturally?

The question I would ask would be did God not have a plan which included every "if", "and" or "but"? Was anything created by anyone but Him? Was not everything He created included in His plan? Was anything "there" naturally before God created it and put it "there"?

Did God not know before He created anything that some men would stumble and that some men would fall never to get up again?
What was the overall purpose of God's plan? Lots of questions we may ask... Only One knows all of the answers and sometimes He does not reveal them to us.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:8-11

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know...depends on how you look at it, GG. Maybe the snares are there as a sort of flaming sword to guard the way to the tree of life Or...they are there to trap the wise or highminded.

God knows men. And He knows the wiles of Satan. That could be the reason they are there.

SBG...
I almost missed this.
You didn't tag me!

Like, what kinds of snares are we talking about?
I feel like Jesus made everything very clear but man goes about
muddying the waters.

 

[GodsGrace]

The question I would ask would be did God not have a plan which included every "if", "and" or "but"? Was anything created by anyone but Him? Was not everything He created included in His plan? Was anything "there" naturally before God created it and put it "there"?

Did God not know before He created anything that some men would stumble and that some men would fall never to get up again?
What was the overall purpose of God's plan? Lots of questions we may ask... Only One knows all of the answers and sometimes He does not reveal them to us.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:8-11

We were discussing this a little at my last study at the sanctuary.
Someone always asks why did God make us.
The monk/friar there said that God needs nothing, but maybe He wanted to share His love.

That's the best I can make of it too.
What other reason could there possibly be?
However, there COULD be another reason but our tiny minds can't reach that far.

And yes, nothing happens without God's approval.

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus,

Certainly we are not speaking of judging others, are we? This was a discussion in understanding what God has done for us, and to not make it into anything it's not.

There is a strong push to make the old and new covenants the same, and I believe it to be a serious mistake to try to do so.

Much love!

They are not the same, but God is the same and what happened to the people actually living in the times described in the OT is related to while different than what is happening to us. I was simply trying to convey that while I see in them types and shadows to help us understand where we are and where we are going, the final results for them are already in. We speculate about their final results, but nothing we can say or do will change them. I don't want to judge them anymore than I should be judging us... unless it is something that according God is needful. If that is the case and our "eye" and "ears" are open we will see and hear in due course.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

It has been said that for every mile of road there are 2 miles of ditch (one ditch on either side of the road)

But in truth those ditches are more like vast fields. The road is the elevated road of holiness.

Isaiah 35:8-9
8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

The early church was called the followers of "the way".... the way of Christ which is in holiness.

But that way is narrow and few can find it. So then the possibility of missing that road and ending up rather in left field or right field are great indeed. In fact we all will fall into the ditch at some point. We will all fall into traps. But it is what we do after that that determines what we become.

We could see the left ditch field as the sins of the flesh...the carnal rebellion of man. Debauchey, perversion, lusts, obsessions, greed, gluttony....etc

I think we all understand this side of sin...the sins that are in the world that we are called out from in order to lead a life with God.

What we don't hear so much....and we should all the more...concerns the religious field which is the ditch on the other side of the road.

This field consists of......religious pride, presumption, delusion, judgementalism, indoctrination, hypocrisy....

Jesus was more concerned for the sins of the religious right as opposed to the sins on the carnal left. And this goes contrary to what most churches teach. Most churches see sin as worldliness (the sins of the flesh) which is that which we can fall into on the left side while fully ignoring the more prevalent sins on the right side that believers fall into on a routine basis.

And this is due to the overwhelming infiltration of error into the modern church. There is a blindness that has come into the church at the level of an epidemic in our time. And this epidemic is spreading.

I have been thinking about the above since I first read it on 7-25-19, and is familiar with the passage Isaiah 35:8-9 in some way, but I will be in prayer with the above.

 

[Nancy]

Oh...did you think that my not being able to say , dogmatically, that men in the OT never had the Holy Spirit, meant I was trying to say the old and new covenants were the same? Just because someone doesn't know and so cannot make a dogmatic statement regarding some particular thing, it does not mean they are therefore making some hidden statement. It just means they don't know.

The only evidences I have that some men had the Holy Spirit are the things they did by faith and the fact that Jesus believed a teacher of Israel should understand that a man must be born again from above.

Considering these two things, I can't say men never had the Holy Spirit in the OT. in fact, some had the Holy Spirit and then lost the Holy Spirit from what I read...

A while ago, I read something about this. It said that the Holy Spirit worked "outside" the person whereas, in the NT He is living "within" us. In the OT, He was selective and temporary. It all changed at Pentecost.
There are many in the OT who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit but...the Spirit left them
1 Samuel 10:10
"When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a company of prophets was coming out to meet him. Then the Spirit of God rushed upon Saul and he prophesied among them. 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had turned away from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him."

Psalm 51:11
"Do not reject me! Do not take your holy Spirit away from me!"

In contrast:

John 14:17 when He told the disciples, “but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”

John 14:16
"Then I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever..."

Ephesians 4:30
4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Hebrews 13:5
13:5 Your conduct must be free from the love of money and you must be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you and I will never abandon you.”

So then, can we say that the Holy Spirit was not living inside us until after Pentecost?

 

[Enoch111]

So then, can we say that the Holy Spirit was not living inside us until after Pentecost?

You mean the Hebrews before Pentecost (not "us") . Some of God's people did have the Holy Spirit within them before Pentecost, particularly the prophets. Also He came upon some from time to time. He also left some when necessary. But the gift of the Holy Spirit was given on the Day of Pentecost, and He comes to indwell believers since then.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A while ago, I read something about this. It said that the Holy Spirit worked "outside" the person whereas, in the NT He is living "within" us. In the OT, He was selective and temporary. It all changed at Pentecost.
There are many in the OT who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit but...the Spirit left them
1 Samuel 10:10
"When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a company of prophets was coming out to meet him. Then the Spirit of God rushed upon Saul and he prophesied among them. 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had turned away from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him."

Psalm 51:11
"Do not reject me! Do not take your holy Spirit away from me!"

In contrast:

John 14:17 when He told the disciples, “but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”

John 14:16
"Then I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever..."

Ephesians 4:30
4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Hebrews 13:5
13:5 Your conduct must be free from the love of money and you must be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you and I will never abandon you.”

So then, can we say that the Holy Spirit was not living inside us until after Pentecost?

Maybe. I'm okay with not knowing some things dogmatically.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi amadeus,

Certainly we are not speaking of judging others, are we? This was a discussion in understanding what God has done for us, and to not make it into anything it's not.

There is a strong push to make the old and new covenants the same, and I believe it to be a serious mistake to try to do so.

Much love!

WHO is pushing to make the Old and New Covenants the same?

What do you think makes them different?

 

[Episkopos]

WHO is pushing to make the Old and New Covenants the same?

What do you think makes them different?

It has been said...that the New Testament is in the Old testament concealed, and the Old testament is in the New Testament revealed.

It takes wisdom to see how that works. We can't expect everyone to just get it. There will be naysayers. But those who understand spiritual things the OT is as rich or richer in it's hidden depths than even the NT.

God has specifically put hidden treasure in the OT for they who seek them out. They are the hidden riches of knowledge put there for they who seek out everything that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Proverbs 25:2
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing (a word): but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.(word)

But who is sufficient to understand these things?

 

[GodsGrace]

It has been said...that the New Testament is in the Old testament concealed, and the Old testament is in the New Testament revealed.

It takes wisdom to see how that works. We can't expect everyone to just get it. There will be naysayers. But those who understand spiritual things the OT is as rich or richer in it's hidden depths than even the NT.

God has specifically put hidden treasure in the OT for they who seek them out. They are the hidden riches of knowledge put there for they who seek out everything that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Proverbs 25:2
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing (a word): but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.(word)

But who is sufficient to understand these things?

There is a lot different about the Mosaic and the New Covenants.
There is a lot the same about them.

It CANNOT be said that they are the same however.
For starters, one is conditional (Mosaic) and one is unconditional (New).
That is a big difference.

And one big quality they have that is the same is often misrepresented by many...
they both require obedience to God.

HOW we obey is the reason for the New Covenant.

 

[Philip James]

God has specifically put hidden treasure in the OT for they who seek them out. They are the hidden riches of knowledge put there for they who seek out everything that proceeds from the mouth of God.

And he replied, "Then every scribe who has been instructed in the kingdom of heaven is like the head of a household who brings from his storeroom both the new and the old


Peace!