Religious Facade Christianity

[CharismaticLady]

I have no problem with that. We were talking about you suspicion that I didn't understand what grace meant. I think grace means kindness and favor. Is part of Gods kindness and favor the giving of the Holy Spirit? So then I think your suspicion was that I didn't know the extent or power of Gods grace...? Or I could be wrong and you think grace does not mean kindness and favor...

Have you ever heard of Semitic writing styles. I post a lot about it. Anyway, the apostles used it because the were Jews and not Greeks. One of the styles is called parallelisms. It is the doubling for clarification. Here is a pertinent to our discussion example.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The conclusion for this clarification is grace is power - granted given to us by God's mercy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, you were wrong. I did once think I might be until I looked deeper into what Calvinists aver and then I ran screaming from them. But the grace of God toward me stuns me daily.

Yay! I hope I remember that. Remind me if you see me responding to you as if you were a Calvinist. Ok?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, you were wrong. I did once think I might be until I looked deeper into what Calvinists aver and then I ran screaming from them. But the grace of God toward me stuns me daily.

I was stunned out of my socks when God spoke to me for the first time. Here the Creator of the Universe and every micro organism on up to the trillions upon trillions of stars and planets was talking to ME!!!!

 

[Helen]

I have no problem with that. We were talking about your suspicion that I didn't understand what grace meant. I think grace means kindness and favor. Is part of Gods kindness and favor the giving of the Holy Spirit? So then I think your suspicion was that I didn't know the extent or power of Gods grace...? Or I could be wrong and you think grace does not mean kindness and favor...

Grace= charis. Stong's #5485 =

...the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life Favour, joy, liberty. ( underlining is mine)
In other words = God's ability ( divine influence) in us, to do what we cannot do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay you guys win. Grace does not mean Gods kindness and favor. It means His influence. Happy now?

 

[marks]

This isn't a contest, or competition. We can all gain if we do this right.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Grace= charis. Stong's #5485 =

...the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life Favour, joy, liberty. ( underlining is mine)
In other words = God's ability ( divine influence) in us, to do what we cannot do.

Yes, Peter tells us that becoming born again of the Spirit is partaking of the divine nature. We are freed from the draw of sin on the flesh. We need to stay consistently in the Spirit, and walk therein.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This isn't a contest, or competition. We can all gain if we do this right.

Much love!

Yeah, wasn't looking at it as a contest. Just didn't want to argue over whether grace meant kindness and favor or influence. Or power. Or whatever else anyone thinks the word grace means.

 

[amadeus]

I used to 'twirl' all the time when younger, especially in socks on my shiny waxed floors! ~ The Hebrew word for 'rejoice' means to twirl.

Always let yourself loose in the Spirit whatever the result, will it not ultimately be good? I remember now also when I was quite a bit younger spinning and sliding about on a freshly waxed floor. My mother did not complain about the effect on her floors, but because of my socks!

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

There is a problem with what you state above.

You said:
God wants to see what we will do with our freedom. With His words. Will we use them for ourselves...or will we seek Him about them? The kingdom of God must be a safe place for the innocent. If a person is self-seeking he will hurt the weak and defenseless to get his own way.

1. I cannot think of any trap or snare that GOD has set for us.
Jesus explained Himself very clearly as to how we are to behave as persons born from above.

2. The Kingdom of God is indeed a safe place...
BECAUSE it is determined BEFORE one enters it whether or NOT he belongs there. Those who do not belong there are filtered out before they can enter.

And I AM speaking about the Kingdom of God here on earth.
His spiritual kingdom of which we are a part.

God does not purposefully test us to see what we will do with our freedom.
It happens naturally by accepting God or not accepting Him.
John 3:16

The trap or snare is to be found in the scriptures themselves. Why did Jesus speak in parables? Why did he not also give the interpretation of the parables he spoke to everyone?

Why when the Jewish leadership came to him asking for a sign did he say the only sign they would received would be that of Jonas?

The scriptures themselves contain all of the answers, or signs if you will, that we need, but why is that that some men reading and studying remain blind to God's real message to men?

Why is it when God sent Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and slavery that they repeatedly murmured against him and thereby also against God?

The parables are a trap. The written scriptures are a trap. They are traps to and for those who ask amiss as James put it:

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

 

[amadeus]

What then is your answer to my question, were you wanting to answer?

So you are saying then that the Isrealites who passed through the Red Sea were born again in the NT sense?

Much love!

The fate of those people is already accomplished and known by God. We don't about them personally, that is about those people who lived in the flesh in the wilderness and followed Moses some of the time. We do, or should, however, understand that those people are types of the people who after the day of Pentecost as per Acts 2 received the Holy Ghost.

The Israelites had Moses given to them by God to lead them into their Promised Land. After 10 rebellions [Num 14:22] they lost their opportunity to enter into their Promised Land with the exception of two men.

We had the Holy Ghost give to us by God to lead us into our Promised Land. After how many rebellions do we suppose the same God who is no respecter of persons that we will lose our opportunity to enter into our Promised Land?

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

We may not be able to know the final of those Israelites beyond their physical deaths, but we should be able to know the final end of those today who repeated rebel against the leading of the Holy Ghost instead of enduring the end following the lead of the Holy Ghost. Those people saved out of Egypt then could and did rebel against Moses and God. These people saved out of sin today can and do rebel against the Holy Ghost and God.

Our God is not respecter of persons [Acts 10:34].

We have been given greater gifts than the children of Israel who followed Moses so will not more be required of us from God who is not respecter of persons? ...much is given... much is required...

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[amadeus]

We need to understand these things, I think. Jesus found it to be important.

The simple answer is that given that rebirth is found in Jesus' death and resurrection, only then, only in the new covenant are we reborn. They were not. This isn't "one-ups-man-ship", simply talking about what the Bible teaches.

We should not, I think, attempt to define our relationship with God in the New Covenant as being the same as someone else's relationship with God in another covenant.

Much love!

Without regard to covenants, God is the same at all times. The reason rebirth was given as an option was because Adam and Eve chose death and death was all that they and all of their offspring had [without regard to which covenant they were under] until Jesus came to bring more abundant Life. He did bring Life as he himself was Life, but in order for us to obtain it we must be overcomers. Jesus did not overcome for us on the cross. Each of must overcome for himself. Due to the sacrifice of Jesus and the now available power of the Holy Ghost this is now a possibility, but each of us must do it! If we do not we will not be able to partake of the Tree of Life.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

 

[amadeus]

OK, thanks!

So my question is, is this then what the Israelites also received that then crossed the Red Sea? I realize you've said you haven't looked into it, I'm interested whenever you may come upon an answer.

Much love!

I have already explained what their crossing of the sea meant to us as a type for us. We do not know what it meant to them more than whatever we are able to read in the scriptures. We could speculate but without a revelation from God how could we really know. As you said they were under a different covenant. We speak here only of what we see in the scriptures according to the Spirit of God in us.

 

[marks]

but each of us must do it! If we do not we will not be able to partake of the Tree of Life.

Hi amadeus, as I'm certain you must know, I believe we have become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him - the true tree of life - we have eternal life.

Not in works of righteousness that we have done, but in the righteousness which comes from Him, and is ours by His grace. Through faith. Not of works. Lest any should boast.

I know you believe differently.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We do not know what it meant to them more than whatever we are able to read in the scriptures.

But actually this is addressed in the Scriptures, if you know where to look, and how.

In this instance, one way we see the difference is that, well, The Law came through Moses, but Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

All were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized . . . into Moses . . . in the cloud, and in the sea. (1 Cor 10)

Yet they died in the wilderness. The Law could not save.

Do you not know that we are baptized . . . into Christ . . . into His death, and buriel, that as He was raised from the dead so we also walk in newness of life. Jesus saves by grace, not Law.

The Law demands works of Righteousness. Working our way to salvation is our own works of righteousness.

Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but by the righteousness that comes from Christ.

Not to mention . . . the new covenant is built on better promises . . . we are reborn in His death and resurrection and Jesus had not yet died . . .

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus, as I'm certain you must know, I believe we have become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him - the true tree of life - we have eternal life.

Not in works of righteousness that we have done, but in the righteousness which comes from Him, and is ours by His grace. Through faith. Not of works. Lest any should boast.

I know you believe differently.

Much love!

I do understand our differences. Remember that the first Adam was a son of God as per Luke 3:38. However I believe that when he disobeyed God as a dead person he was no longer a son. I don't believe God has any dead sons.

I also believe that Jesus is the Tree of Life but who is that really eats of Him?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

As we overcome the obstacles between us and God eat of his flesh [the scriptures if you will], but they are dead until quickened, which is where the quickening Spirit, the Holy Spirit comes in and brings that flesh to Life within us. If we stop eating his flesh and drinking his blood [the Holy Spirit as I see it] before our allotted time is completed, we have failed to endure to the end with Him in us and all that remains is death.

The new birth, when and if we are born again, puts us back where Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden before they disobeyed God. We now have that missed opportunity, but we must endure to end for our allotted time. Our reward is the penny due [Matt 20:8] to each one who puts in his proper day's work until his end arrives. The penny is simply the reward of the overcomer...

 

[amadeus]

But actually this is addressed in the Scriptures, if you know where to look, and how.

In this instance, one way we see the difference is that, well, The Law came through Moses, but Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

All were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized . . . into Moses . . . in the cloud, and in the sea. (1 Cor 10)

Yet they died in the wilderness. The Law could not save.

Do you not know that we are baptized . . . into Christ . . . into His death, and buriel, that as He was raised from the dead so we also walk in newness of life. Jesus saves by grace, not Law.

The Law demands works of Righteousness. Working our way to salvation is our own works of righteousness.

Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but by the righteousness that comes from Christ.

Not to mention . . . the new covenant is built on better promises . . . we are reborn in His death and resurrection and Jesus had not yet died . . .

Much love!

Isn't that what I said? "We do not know what it meant to them more than whatever we are able to read in the scriptures.".
You read it in the scriptures and then drew a conclusion, did you not? I have seen and heard your conclusion before, but even if I might come to the same conclusion, I am not their judge any more than you. Their time is finished and they are already judged. Ours is not yet... not while we still have time and have not made ourselves reprobate before God.

 

[Episkopos]

"According to a legend of the 19th century Truth and Lie met one day. Lie tells the Truth:
"The weather is very nice today"
Truth looks around her and rolls her eyes, the day was indeed really beautiful. They spend a lot of time together until they arrive in front of a well. Lie tells the Truth:
"The water is very nice, let's take a bath together!"
Truth once again suspicious touches the water, and it was indeed really nice. They undress and start bathing.
Suddenly, the Lie comes out of the water, puts on the clothes of the Truth and flees. The Truth comes out of the well and runs everywhere to find the Lie and to get her clothes back. The world, seeing the naked truth, turns its eyes away with contempt and anger.
Poor Truth returns to the well and disappears forever, hiding its shame.
Since then, the Lie travels around the world dressed as the Truth, satisfying the needs of society, since the world does not want to see the naked Truth in any case. "

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yeah, wasn't looking at it as a contest. Just didn't want to argue over whether grace meant kindness and favor or influence. Or power. Or whatever else anyone thinks the word grace means.

I like to know what the apostles mean by grace. They were the ones inspired.

 

[Executioner]

Quite an accusation for a stranger to say. I am not under the old laws, because I keep the deeper laws of the Spirit of life in Christ. That must be accepting to God because 100% of my prayers are answered.

Really?
The first commandment is the deepest law of the Spirit of Life in Christ.
In fact it is the commandment of Jesus the Christ.
lol

lol

lol

And God does not give you everything you petition Him.

Not even close.

But hey
I'm game
match up with me
on the Commandments of Jesus the Christ.
Winner takes all.

Do you accept my challenge?