"Let the wicked continue to do wickedness, and let the righteous continue to walk uprightly"
Should we pray the imprecatory psalms?
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"Let the wicked continue to do wickedness, and let the righteous continue to walk uprightly"
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I find the Psalms comforting in many ways. Yet, even though David prayed for God to take vengeance on his enemies...what comes to mind is that now, in the NC, we are to bless and pray for our enemies, and for those who do us harm. Maybe the difference has something to do with the Holy Spirit living inside us now, whereas, in the OT, He worked OUTSIDE of the person? I hope that made some semblance of sense, lol.
I read all of the Psalms along with the Proverbs regularly, the whole book as often as every couple of months, but I only effectively "pray" the words as so led by the Holy Spirit. The leading of the Holy Spirit is the most important thing as in our own minds alone, we may well understand things that are not of God. This holds in reading any part of the scriptures.
There may be a difference between David and us. He started off as shepherd when a boy, and he became a shepherd of his people. A shepherd of sheep needs to kill predatory animals; and a shepherd of people needs to act to protect them. David had an anointing from God to guide him; and I doubt that he took things personally when attacking the wicked or praying that they be no more. I don't see him as being vengeful.
It is evil but are those children of the devil that will grow up to do much evil? I don't know - I've wrestled with this one as well.
I wonder why some pastors are averse to the imprecatory psalms - some even saying that it was just an outburst of emotion.
I always wonder which of the Scripture to apply and when. David most certainly prayed for justice - yet we know the forgiveness verses. How do you know when to apply each one?
I foolishly applied the wrong one when a Christian youth pastor rented an ununspected house out to a family member. They were badly damaged due to unsafe things in the house. That youth pastor was corrupt and would have been better served being held accountable. That's why Scripture is so hard to apply sometimes - there are competing verses.
That's interesting. I always wanted to be "led" but struggled with how to do it. Sometimes emotion pours out of me and the Psalms help put words to it. Sometimes I feel certain verses 'quicken' my Spirit. I longed to enter the Spirit as we're told John did: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day..." It's something of a longing.
I don't know why. I was reading the Bible on the way somewhere and we passed a church and I looked up at the cross built into the old church and felt a movement within my Spirit - a type of 'quickening' - but it faded. I think it may be the first fruits. I long to go into the Spirit the way John did but wasn't sure how to do it. Things like the above blip in and out - so I don't know if that's the normal Christian walk or not.
We may absolutely pray for justice...and in the end justice will not only be done, but will be seen to be done and we will witness it first hand, if we are still alive and kicking at the second coming. Is it Micah who said that we are to do justly, yet love mercy? And Isaiah said that at the cross, justice and mercy kissed each other. There's a balance. But we are not to seek vengeance...let God do that...and when it comes to others being wronged, then we may step up as we are able...not to take justice out upon the perpetrator of the injustice, but to love mercy by helping the victim.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What exactly "fades"? A "high" or "faith." Much of walking in the Spirit is not a feeling, but a resolve.
Some pastors simply do not believe that the Psalms (or even the OT) originated with the Holy Spirit, and then were written down by David and others. That changes the entire perspective, and it shows the mind of God and Christ in the Psalms.
While we are commanded to forgive our personal enemies, we need to remember that when Christ comes the second time with power and great glory, His first order of business will be to destroy His enemies and the enemies of His people.
Interesting question. It brings to my mind the end of Romans 12:
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:19-21 KJV
I let God be the judge and share His love with others until it is time for His justice to prevail.
To me honestly, I don't know what these Psalms are. I never heard this term and will have to look it up. Are there certain ones you are talking about?
There was -- at that time -- children who were born inclined to great wickedness. Abraham was told his offspring would not enter the Land of Promise until the "iniquity" of the Amorites was full.
Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
As long as the iniquity is incomplete, there is a chance for repentance. God often defers judgment then until the wickedness is so great, there is no hope for change.
We see something similar in Sodom. For some odd reason, the KJV changes the order of words -- so let me cite Young's Literal.
YLT Genesis 19:4 Before they lie down, the men of the city -- men of Sodom -- have come round about against the house, from young even unto aged, all the people from the extremity;
Why young first? They were the instigators. The adults were wicked enough; but their children were even worse. It was God's plan, of course, that every nation and tribe be represented in Heaven; so Lot's two daughters played a key role -- and both became ancestors of Jesus eventually.
The intense evil present in the world then has been largely dealt with; but back then, I believe some parents were so evil, God did not permit children to be born to them. Their offspring were demonic. If I'm right, thank goodness that evil was wiped out.
These were the wicked ones David said were corrupt from birth.
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
I don't think of them as human to tell the truth. They looked like humans; but they had nothing of the image and likeness of God about them. They were like the beasts of the earth but worse since they were demonic.
They weren't completely wiped out though. They attempted to marry into the Aaronic priestly line -- they did in fact -- Joshua the High Priest had done nothing when his sons married pagan women. The serpent's seed was trying to infiltrate the line of the High Priests. That is what got him in trouble with Satan, the Jews say. He repented and had his sons divorce those pagans, so he was given clean garments again by God.
I think too that the seed of the serpent had intermarried with the priestly class over time -- which was the reason Jesus said they were children of the serpent, not of Abraham. The whole Temple system had been undermined. I think many of the serpent's children got wiped out in 70 AD.
It is a hard concept to fathom of how this could be; but I don't think we have to worry too much about it today, thanks to David and others like him. Don't forget that David eliminated much evil, and then his son reigned in peace. Judah is like that -- the lion that rages until "shiloh" or "peace" comes.
Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
In the New Testament, we see it being said the Lion of Judah will open the Seals, but the lion doesn't. The lamb does. The lion has become the lamb.
Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
We ought not take justice into our own hands. Let the rulers of the world do it. If they're faithful to their ordained purpose, they will root out evil.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
If the rulers are unfaithful and do not act to preserve the good while stamping out evil, God has His ways of removing their authority. Think of Pharaoh who ordered children killed and who refused to allow Israel religious freedom. He was creating evil and preventing good, so God took him out. We needn't do it. God takes care of such things.
That verse in Micah is one of my favorite. I read throughout the bible that God is a God of justice yet we don't see much of justice in this world. I tell God that He put that desire for justice within our hearts and ask Him what are we to do when we don't see it. David apparently experienced heavy attacks to have prayed so strongly - and a number of times I've wondered where God's promises for justice are when answers don't come. People are absolutely corrupt these days and I feel like Habakuk. Someone in local government is corrupt and we reported it and it was sickening to see how this politically connected person was absolved by all the people in government who should have held her accountable and fired her - one after another refused to take action and money was stolen from us. It's hard when you ask God to step in and nothing happens. This world is getting harder to live in because there are no generally accepted morals anymore. "Every man does what is right in his own eyes..."
It's interesting that pastors are divided over whether to pray the imprecatory psalms or not.
It's hard to not see justice - I think of that verse sometimes about the blood of the saints crying out from under the altar and being told to wait awhile longer. Were they to just forgive - apparently they weren't at peace with it. No one likes to wait to see justice, particularly those whose blood has been spilled - I just wonder what God has in mind for people to do. It seemed that David also experienced that when he cried "How long O Lord? Will You forget me forever?..."
I have to think that all of the Bible is relevant - I think it's dangerous when you start cherry-picking but I just wonder how pastors can dismiss those parts of the Bible as irrelevant.
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