Why do so many oppose imputed righteousness?

[Giuliano]

I'm offering your Scripture. You offer nothing but your self-righteous opinion. Why?

Why say I'm "self-righteous" just because I disagree? You sound as if you're on a high horse yourself, looking down at me! Ha!

God does make people righteous. Through imputed righteousness. That is obtained when one places faith in Christ. The believer stands in the righteousness of Christ alone. You can go ahead and dress yourself in those filthy rags of your righteousness if you like.

Stranger

God gave Joshua the High Priest when he had dirty clothes. God can do that for everyone. We all need help. We should not think "our righteousness" is going to save us if we still have soiled garments.

 

[Stranger]

Why say I'm "self-righteous" just because I disagree? You sound as if you're on a high horse yourself, looking down at me! Ha!

God gave Joshua the High Priest when he had dirty clothes. God can do that for everyone. We all need help. We should not think "our righteousness" is going to save us if we still have soiled garments.

I say you are self-righteous because you promote your righteousness and not the imputed righteousness of Christ. I do look down on you and what your are trying to promote. I despise it and you.

You should not think your righteousness saves you, period. Therein lies your problem. Your righteousness is filthy rags. Not your sins.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

And (Philippians 3:9) speaks to imputed righteousness.

Stranger

It also speaks of imparted righteousness (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7). Faith produces a righteous heart; and it is speaking of real righteousness, not pretend.

God does make people righteous. Through imputed righteousness.

My understanding is that in imputing righteousness to us, God will not be far behind with imparting righteousness to us also. He declares us righteous; and since it is impossible for the Lord to lie (Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18), He is calling those things which are not as though they are (Romans 4:17); thus creating a new reality, that the person is righteous with the righteousness of faith, fine linen clean and white (Revelation 19:8). The righteousness of faith is a faith righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees in the practical sense (see Matthew 5:20); since it is a righteousness that has to do with thoroughly cleansing (Psalms 51:7) the inside of the cup and platter rather than just the outside.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your righteousness is filthy rags. Not your sins.

See Revelation 19:8; which speaks of the imparted (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7) righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9). (not the righteousness of the law; which is cleansing only the outside of the cup and dish).

 

[Giuliano]

I say you are self-righteous because you promote your righteousness and not the imputed righteousness of Christ. I do look down on you and what your are trying to promote. I despise it and you.

You have the right to despise me if you like. You have free will and the right to exercise it as you like.

You should not think your righteousness saves you, period. Therein lies your problem. Your righteousness is filthy rags. Not your sins.

Stranger

Where have I talked about myself and promoted my own righteousness? Where did I say "my own righteousness" will save me? You're in fantasyland. I will say this: There are some people I would call righteous; and I think they would agree with me that they didn't do it on their own. And their righteousness is not as filthy rags.

 

[Stranger]

It also speaks of imparted righteousness (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7). Faith produces a righteous heart; and it is speaking of real righteousness, not pretend.



My understanding is that in imputing righteousness to us, God will not be far behind with imparting righteousness to us also. He declares us righteous; and since it is impossible for the Lord to lie (Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18), He is calling those things which are not as though they are (Romans 4:17); thus creating a new reality, that the person is righteous with the righteousness of faith, fine linen clean and white (Revelation 19:8). The righteousness of faith is a faith that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees in the practical sense (see Matthew 5:20); since it is a righteousness that has to do with thoroughly cleansing (Psalms 51:7) the inside of the cup and platter rather than just the outside.

By faith we have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. It is not the righteousness of faith, it is the righteousness of Christ. Thus it exceedes the righteousness of the Pharisees and Scribes. They stood in their own righteousness, that which was by the law. It is as filthy rags.

Thus they stood before God as an unclean rag because they stood in their own righteousness. Instead of the imputed righteousness of Christ which is only by faith.

We as believers who have exercised that faith in Christ, have the Spirit of Christ in us. We have the ability to walk in fellowship with God due to our being declared Righteous by the imputed Righteousness of Christ. It is not ours to improve on. And, we cannot take away from it.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You have the right to despise me if you like. You have free will and the right to exercise it as you like.

Where have I talked about myself and promoted my own righteousness? Where did I say "my own righteousness" will save me? You're in fantasyland. I will say this: There are some people I would call righteous; and I think they would agree with me that they didn't do it on their own. And their righteousness is not as filthy rags.

Sorry, don't need your approval.

That is all you are talking about. Anyone who doesn't hold to the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, is promoting their own self-righteousness. You can't have it both ways.

You can't get past that we are not talking about ones sins. We are talking about their righteousness. The good things they do that make them think they are acceptable to God.

Just because you call someone righteous doesn't make a hill of beans. What does God call them? If it is their own righteousness, then they stand in filthy rags before Him. If it is in the imputed righteousness of Christ, then they are righteous.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

See Revelation 19:8; which speaks of the imparted (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7) righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9). (not the righteousness of the law; which is cleansing only the outside of the cup and dish).

The righteousness of the saints (Rev. 19:8) is the imputed righteousness of Christ. It is not the imparted righteousness, which you like for some reason. It is the imputed righteousness. Yes, even in eternity we shall always and only be righteous due to the imputed righteousness of Christ. Does that bother you? Do you think you will ever be good enough in Heaven so that you no longer stand in Christ's righteousness but in your own?

Stranger

 

[Giuliano]

Sorry, don't need your approval.

That is all you are talking about. Anyone who doesn't hold to the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, is promoting their own self-righteousness. You can't have it both ways.

You can't get past that we are not talking about ones sins. We are talking about their righteousness. The good things they do that make them think they are acceptable to God.

Just because you call someone righteous doesn't make a hill of beans. What does God call them? If it is their own righteousness, then they stand in filthy rags before Him. If it is in the imputed righteousness of Christ, then they are righteous.

Stranger

I think you may be mentally unstable. I'm ending this pointless conversation.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, even in eternity we shall always and only be righteous due to the imputed righteousness of Christ. Does that bother you? Do you think you will ever be good enough in Heaven so that you no longer stand in Christ's righteousness but in your own?

I know that I myself have the imputed righteousness of Christ. But I am also aware (are you?) that Christ also imparts righteousness to His children:

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

These verses speak of a practical righteousness that is given as a gift to the people of God.

In context of Romans 5:19 (Romans 5:17) righteousness is said to be a gift; and in context of Romans 5:17 (Romans 5:19), this gift is said to be a practical righteousness (the person is not only declared, but made righteous).

In 1 John 3:7, it should be clear that if we really and truly do what is righteous, we are righteous even as Christ is righteous...now that is talking about perfect righteousness in the practical sense! See also Hebrews 10:14.

This is the righteousness that we will have in heaven and can even have while we walk the earth.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think you may be mentally unstable. I'm ending this pointless conversation.

He actually does have a point, although I am trying to bring him closer to the truth on a slightly different issue.

 

[Giuliano]

He actually does have a point, although I am trying to bring him closer to the truth on a slightly different issue.

Good luck.

 

[Grailhunter]

So back to arguing and talking in circles, instead of addressing the issue.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ok guys! Thinking caps on! Full power!
Question one; Can you sin! I am expecting you to say yes.

 

[Grailhunter]

Come on guys...now is not the time to be shy!

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone is truly born of God, they cannot sin (1 John 3:9).

 

[marks]

Every good seed in good soil produces good fruit, agreed?

People whom don't believe in justification/sanctification being two separate things are simply looking at the whole picture, rather than subdividing it out into seed then later there'll be a tree. You don't have to be a full blown fruiting tree right now or any other point in mortality- that's not the focus. Rather it's the whole picture and the continual growth.

Actually, in relegating justification to a process that starts but not complete, and will be complete later, if we all do the right good works, then justification has been shifted over from grace through faith to works.

Imputation of righteousness to salvation becomes ours through believing, when we are born again, or by working, which is over the course of a lifetime.

So I'd have to disagree in saying that it's looking at a totally different picture.

Justification is when we cease to be the flesh person who sins, and we are reborn the spirit person who does not. This is a change of both nature and status. Sanctification is as we in that new nature learn to control our flesh, which has been left untouched for now.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

If anyone is truly born of God, they cannot sin (1 John 3:9).

Thank you.
Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
John the Baptist did not lie. Spoiler Alert! John knew the plan.
But we know we sin. So how can we sin if it is not in the world.
This is one of the points that people are missing.

 

[justbyfaith]

But we know we sin.

Then by proxy, we know that we are not born of Him.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then by proxy, we know that we are not born of Him.

No that is not the answer.
for where there is no law there is no transgression.
No Law! No Law! That system of sin was removed for those in the New Covenant. We we were purchased out of that system. Justified by faith. And righteous before a God that can only tolerate perfection, righteous before Him with a white clock of Grace.
But we still sin. But what or who do we sin against?