101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.First of all, I did not define perichoresis. Had I done so it would have been somewhat longer. The best thing to do is to look it up in a Systematic Theology.
But do you deny that there is union and distinction between the Persons of the Trinity? You have copied your definition of allos out of Vine's Dictionary, which is regarded as very old-fashioned these days, but in any case I don't think it helps.
To get an idea of the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ, I always think it's helpful to look at the incident of the stilling of the storm (Mark 6:35ff etc.).
When the Lord Jesus comes on the boat, He is tired and goes to sleep on a cushion. God does not grow tired or weary (Isaiah 40:28). Elsewhere He is described as being hungry. He is a Man; man as if He were not God. But when the storm arises, and the disciples wake Him in a panic, He rebukes the wind and waves and they immediately cease. A man cannot do that; nor does the Lord Jesus pray to the Father to do it for Him. He is God, God in all His fullness, and His Deity is entirely unrestricted by His humanity. He is God as though He were not man.
So yes, the Lord Jesus is 'another of the same kind' as God, but He is also truly human; and in His humanity He felt Himself entirely separated from the Father, except for the Father's wrath - not against Him, but against the sin which He bore on our behalf.
God's righteous sentence against sinners is this:'They shall be punished with everlasting destruction, and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power' (2 Thes. 1:9). Because Christ was shut out from the presence of His Father during the hours of darkness on the cross, it means that I never shall be. Praise His name!
first thanks for your reply. second, Vine's Dictionary is an old-fashioned dictionary these days, (smile), but is on point. all that you said is fine, but without knowledge. example, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
now Steve, can you tell me how our Lord, and God JESUS who is "EQUAL WITH" God, notice not equal "to", but equal "with" God and yet be separate?. but before you answer that question, please note this scripture, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?" now if Jesus is a separate person as you say and is "equal" with God then you have two separate "person" who is Gods, and that's anti bible, which is your perichoresis. and two, this verse eliminates any other ...... "person" in the Godhead, listen, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
but did not the book of Hebrews states, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." so tell us how is the Son God, (if separate), when God said clearly that there is no God beside him? well. unless the Son and the Father is the same "person".
or this, if Jesus is a separate person, then please explain these two verses as to "who made all things"
scripture #1. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." the "him" here in verse 3 referes back to the person in verse 1 as the "WORD", correct, and the word is the person whom you call the son, right. now the second scripture,
scripture #2. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
so Steve is this the same person in John 1:3 as in Isaiah 44:24? yes, or no. but also please note, the "LORD" in Isaiah 44:24 said he was "alone", and "by himself" when he made all things, so no onw made anything "through" someone else.
will be looking for your answer.
PICJAG.