Exodus 19...confused

[stunnedbygrace]

Was recently speaking with someone about red lights and green lights. I see how God gave Moses a green light to go up on the mountain. The rest of the people had a red light ((do not go up on the mountain or even touch it, (which, incidentally reminds me of eves words to Satan about the fruit), or they will die.)) BUT, there was also to be a green light for the people: however, when the rams horn sounds a long blast, THEN the people may go up on the mountain.
So...I'm confused as to why they didn't go up the mountain when they had the green light of the long blast...is it my translation I wonder?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Actually though, I'm remembering another rendering of the story elsewhere...I think it says they were scared and said, nope, YOU go talk to Him and tell us what He says...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So...ex 19 doesn't say why, after the long blast, God told Moses to go down and tell the people not to come up, even though that long blast was supposed to be when they came up, but...I think they were afraid rather than trusting and so God...changed it.

 

[Sabertooth]

Verse 24 says,

"But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the Lord, or he will break out against them.”

My guess is that it is related to Exodus 33:18-23,

"And [Moses] said, 'Please, show me Your glory.'

Then He said, 'I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.' But He said, 'You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.' And the Lord said, 'Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.'” NKJV

 

[Butterfly]

I thought the ' green ' light was to approach the mountain- the ' red light ' ( after the horn was blown) was not to go up the mountain. The Lord proclaimed that the people would hear him talking to moses, so the warning was about seeing him.
Rita

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I thought the ' green ' light was to approach the mountain- the ' red light ' ( after the horn was blown) was not to go up the mountain. The Lord proclaimed that the people would hear him talking to moses, so the warning was about seeing him.
Rita

Well...yes, it says God will come to Moses in a thick cloud so they will hear God talking to Moses so they will always trust Moses.

But its the end of vs 13 that I found puzzling. It gives a green light for the people to go up the mountain, but it never happened...

 

[Giuliano]

Well...yes, it says God will come to Moses in a thick cloud so they will hear God talking to Moses so they will always trust Moses.

But its the end of vs 13 that I found puzzling. It gives a green light for the people to go up the mountain, but it never happened...

The Jewish commentary I checked said that the people would get a signal by the long blast that the Glory of God had left and it was safe for them to go onto the mountain.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Except the long blast came and they DIDNT go up. In fact, after the long blast, God made Moses go down and warn them again...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

According to what I read, the long blast came and the people trembled. They were supposed to go up then, but it only says they trembled. AND, God then seems to change His mind...

 

[Giuliano]

According to what I read, the long blast came and the people trembled. They were supposed to go up then, but it only says they trembled. AND, God then seems to change His mind...

I don't pretend to know; but I imagined the trumpet would sound long and strong for a while, cease and then they would get another blast telling them it was safe to go up. It's hard to picture Israel worshiping the golden calf if the trumpet was still sounding, so I think it had ceased then.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yeah, I would think it ceased too. In another place I remember reading how they said, you go talk to Him and tell us what He says, So I think they heard the long blast and fear held them back, even though He said at the long blast they could go up. Like, they trembled and feared Him, which is good, but I think they second guessed if they could go up like He said they could, so He sent Moses back down to warn them not to go up, as if they missed their chance because of mistrust...?

 

[Giuliano]

Yeah, I would think it ceased too. In another place I remember reading how they said, you go talk to Him and tell us what He says, So I think they heard the long blast and fear held them back, even though He said at the long blast they could go up. Like, they trembled and feared Him, which is good, but I think they second guessed if they could go up like He said they could, so He sent Moses back down to warn them not to go up, as if they missed their chance because of mistrust...?

It is a passage I feel I'm guessing at; but if we are right and it had ceased, I am amazed at how quickly they forgot about it. When they were hearing it, they were fearful; but when they hadn't heard it for a while, they fell into idolatry, seemingly losing their prior fear. Perhaps there is a lesson in it for us? If God "goes silent" on us for a while, will we remember when He wasn't? For some reason, I'm reminded of Saul, who when God "went silent" for him, consulted the necromancer.

Edit to add: I just discovered that the word yowbel (probably meaning a joyful sound) is used in verse 13. That's usually translated as jubilee since trumpets were used for that too. In verse 19, it's shofar. I do not know if that means anything or not.

 

[Enoch111]

...however, when the rams horn sounds a long blast, THEN the people may go up on the mountain.

This is not found in that chapter. In fact the people were never asked to go up into Mount Sinai.

 

[Giuliano]

This is not found in that chapter. In fact the people were never asked to go up into Mount Sinai.

What?

Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

 

[Enoch111]

What?

Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

That simply means that they shall approach the Mount. The rest of that chapter makes it perfectly clear that only Moses was allowed to be on Mount Sinai with God.

New International Version
They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.' Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is not found in that chapter. In fact the people were never asked to go up into Mount Sinai.

13 No hand may touch the person or animal that crosses the boundary; instead, stone them or shoot them with arrows. They must be put to death.’ However, when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast, then the people may go up on the mountain.”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What?

Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

He is saying they could come up to the mount but not break through the boundary. In my first post, I wondered if it might be my transl. It appears that might be so.

 

[Giuliano]

That simply means that they shall approach the Mount. The rest of that chapter makes it perfectly clear that only Moses was allowed to be on Mount Sinai with God.

New International Version
They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.' Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain."

The NIV often has problems. Don't try to alter what is written by substituting "approach" for "go up into." Read it as written, please.

That was when Moses was up on the mountain alone with God. Later we find that Joshua was allowed about half way up and the seventy were also allowed part way up.

 

[Giuliano]

He is saying they could come up to the mount but not break through the boundary. In my first post, I wondered if it might be my transl. It appears that might be so.

I think the NIV might be the one that's wrong. I've seen other passages they altered when they thought they knew what a passage ought to read.

Exodus 19:13 - Bible Gateway

Young's Literal Translation has it:

YLT a hand cometh not against him, for he is certainly stoned or shot through, whether beast or man it liveth not; in the drawing out of the jubilee cornet they go up into the mount.'

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The NIV often has problems. Don't try to alter what is written by substituting "approach" for "go up into." Read it as written, please.

That was when Moses was up on the mountain alone with God. Later we find that Joshua was allowed about half way up and the seventy were also allowed part way up.

Huh...? If he's reading Niv, he isn't trying to alter what's written. He's actually reading "approach."